Difficult Questions

[Goldwing]

Many christians believe as they were taught from childhood, that the ten commandments are good rules to follow, as all but the 4th were reinstated after being nailed to the cross, upon the death of Christ. This would include me.

However, there are some questions that many have never given serious thought to, such as:

I. If they were abolished, then how does one define sin/disobedience?
2. If they were abolished, then why do we need grace?
3. If they were abolished, then what evidence can we give to show we love God?

 

[Francis]

Why in stone? When the Lord first called the children of Israel to come up the mountain, the mountain that if any living thing touched it it would die, so that the Lord might write his laws in their hearts, the children of Israel refused, and chose to follow after Moses and the Stones instead.

With the promise of the new covenant, the scripture tells us the Lord promised to take from them their heart of stone, and give to them a heart of flesh that He might write is laws upon their hearts.


A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


What made their hearts turn to stone in the first place? Jesus cautioned us that because of iniquity, the hearts of many would wax cold. A heart that has waxed cold is a hardened heart, a stony heart. What do you think is the significance of the heart of flesh? When Jesus was tempted of the devil in the wilderness, the devil bid him to turn stone into bread. When you present the ten commandments and following the sabbath day as something required; Are you trying to serve me stone for bread?

Nailed it. Stone/rock = tough thing that holds itself together<---related to sediment, cement, and concrete. The Pharisee is the original stone man, aka 'Caveman is lord of the apes', who lives and works under an enormous mountain of rock because that's how he sees the the world; as a uniform and standardized present in which everyone is to fit a mold (and obey the mold) or if not they'll be stoned (and Jesus repeatedly left before they stoned him as well as stopping them from stoning others.) The Pharisees adore their stone tablets because they are past oriented traditionalist and narrow minded conformists.
Law= Commandments written in stone (solidified, concrete, cemented) Figurehead= Moses.
with Cuba it's the same;
Law= 'Communism'.
Figurehead = Fidel Castro.
No questions. There's nothing suspicious, no sir...they're honest people, they just don't want any questions! And no thinking either.
Its very simple because they are simple minded people and since they see things in concrete (thats to say they cant do abstraction, analysis, or synthesis) they can only manage thinking in terms of sets. So you get 10 commandments since thats a simple enough set and the content of the set doesnt matter so much as the law in it be written in stone so that the set can't be broken; cemented so as to not allow revision (meaning thinking.) Jesus knew God and so knew the distinction between each person's individual heart and declared thats where the truth is written and NOT in stone, obedience, uniformity, conformity, or beauracracy. Jesus was The Way out of the stone age and into the future.

 

[jerry63935]

So, I understand you to say, the ten command "were not" nail to the cross, therefore, are binding on all of mankind?

the ten commandments tells us what sin is .thus the reason there not welcome actually our laws are based off them

 

[jerry63935]

Well, tell me how I am harming my neighbor by worshiping on Sunday?

your not

 

[jerry63935]

Wow! But I’ve noticed that it’s more common for speakers in church to go on and on about themselves. They can’t say anything worth hearing about God so they use the time as a verbal social media platform full of verbal selfies to a captive audience. If the listeners don’t think about God, as least they can be left admiring the minister. “Spotlight on me” is the name of services these days.

not the pastors i know

 

[Dorothy Mae]

not the pastors i know

I’m very glad to hear this. In the church we recently attended we know that the assistant pastor:
a. eats in the most expensive restaurant in town
b. hobnobs with ambassadors
c. drove his brand new car as fast as it would go on a country road
d. was praised as the only hero in a company he worked for
e. experienced computer problems as the worst trial of that year

The other two talk a bit less about themselves but that gives you an idea.

 

[Goldwing]

Amen sister ! He is worthy ! :amen

hawkman, Glory, In response to both your post, which you both revealed you worship Christ seven days a week. Please realize that it's in accordance to how you wish to worship the Lord, and on the days of your choosing, not God's. I'm quite sure that on those days, you don't refrain from all your labors, as God commands.

Could it be possible that God began the fourth commandment with the word, "Remember," because foreknowledge revealed to Him that Satan would turn the hearts and minds of man to despise God's sabbath, instead of honoring it?

I am reminded of the story of Cain and Able. Two brothers who claimed to worship God. Able offered up a sacrifice as the Lord required, and the Lord was pleased, and consumed it by fire. As you both know, that was not the case with Cain's offering of produce from the land. Cain decided to make an offering that was suited to him, hls actions reflected his heart of stone, an unsubmissive heart, unresponsive to the Holy Spirit.

I am reminded of another story of a great servant of Gods, named Moses. If you recall, Moses was not permitted to enter the promise land, after leading the nation of Israel, in the wilderness for forty years, simply because of striking a rock with his staff to get water, instead of speaking to it, as God commanded. For this God was not pleased, even after Moses served the Lord as a faithful servant for the better part of his life.

The old testament reveals nearly fifthteen centuries in which Israel rebelled against God, and He is never please with rebellion.

Not everyone who says, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Mat. 7:21)

Remember, it is always better to be walking the narrow path, than the broad path, which leads to destruction.

 

[Whatever]

"Remember," because foreknowledge revealed to Him

When did this foreknowledge reveal something to God? It all depends upon your knowledge of foreknow.

You and most here seem to understand it as you said above - God learns something before it happens.

Calvinists understand it as simply God knows beforehand. He doesn't learn it, He simply knows.
Isaiah 46:10 NIV
I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.

Isaiah 46:10 New American Standard
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,

Isaiah 46:10 New English Translation
who announces the end from the beginning
and reveals beforehand what has not yet occurred;

Isaiah 46:10 Amplified Bible
Declaring the end and the result from the beginning,
And from ancient times the things which have not [yet] been done,

The underlined part above is:
H5046 - nâgad
properly to front, that is, stand boldly out opposite; by implication (causatively), to manifest
figuratively to announce

God doesn't learn after the beginning what will then take place in time.

I am reminded of the story of Cain and Able. Two brothers who claimed to worship God.

Where did either of them claim anything?

 

[Goldwing]

Well, tell me how I am harming my neighbor by worshiping on Sunday?

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I find it interesting that when Jesus talks about the commandments He never talks about the first 4.

Matthew 19:17 And He (Jesus) said to him (the rich young ruler), “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he (the rich young ruler) said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Mark 10:19 You know the commandments, ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’”

Luke 18:20 You know the commandments, ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’”

Whatever, notice in (Mat.,19:18) that Jesus said we are not to bear false witness. I'll assume as most, you believe actions speak louder than words, and as a christian, you are called to be a witness for Christ. Therefore, you have a choice to either witness in behalf for truth as spoken by God, or to witness for the teachings of man.

Example: Your neighbor, not confessing to be christian, observes you going to church on Sunday morning, and after church you continue the work of painting your house. Your neighbor is aware that the fourth commandment requires man to keep the seventh day Holy, and refrain from all his labor. So to him, and to all others who understand how Sunday worship came into practice you are a false witness for Christ on this issue.

In the example above, your actions would not be in accordance with (Rm. 13:10).

Quoting you, "I find it interesting that when Jesus talks about the commandments He never talks about the first 4."
Have you heard it said, never say never? This is why, (Mat. 22: 34-40).

I have herd it said, and I think there is wisdom in it, so I'll share it with you. Could it be that God gave us His Sabbath as a weekly test of our faith? If we honor it as He commands, motivated by love for Him, our faith is thereby demonstrated each week, and we know we are walking in His Spirit/Holy Spirit. On the other hand if we are not, our actions reveal our unwillingness to love God over self, an indication that our faith is week and we need the Holy Spirits help in growing us into more mature witnesses for Christ.

 

[Goldwing]

When did this foreknowledge reveal something to God? It all depends upon your knowledge of foreknow.

You and most here seem to understand it as you said above - God learns something before it happens.

Calvinists understand it as simply God knows beforehand. He doesn't learn it, He simply knows.
Isaiah 46:10 NIV
I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.

Isaiah 46:10 New American Standard
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,

Isaiah 46:10 New English Translation
who announces the end from the beginning
and reveals beforehand what has not yet occurred;

Isaiah 46:10 Amplified Bible
Declaring the end and the result from the beginning,
And from ancient times the things which have not [yet] been done,

The underlined part above is:
H5046 - nâgad
properly to front, that is, stand boldly out opposite; by implication (causatively), to manifest
figuratively to announce

God doesn't learn after the beginning what will then take place in time.


Where did either of them claim anything?

Whatever, You, have misunderstood my meaning. I agree, God doesn't learn after the beginning what will then take place in time. The texts certainly bear that out.

You state: :Where did either of them claim anything?" You, are looking for word statements from them, in so you are overlooking their actions. Do not actions speak louder than words?

 

[hawkman]

hawkman, Glory, In response to both your post, which you both revealed you worship Christ seven days a week. Please realize that it's in accordance to how you wish to worship the Lord, and on the days of your choosing, not God's. I'm quite sure that on those days, you don't refrain from all your labors, as God commands.

Could it be possible that God began the fourth commandment with the word, "Remember," because foreknowledge revealed to Him that Satan would turn the hearts and minds of man to despise God's sabbath, instead of honoring it?

I am reminded of the story of Cain and Able. Two brothers who claimed to worship God. Able offered up a sacrifice as the Lord required, and the Lord was pleased, and consumed it by fire. As you both know, that was not the case with Cain's offering of produce from the land. Cain decided to make an offering that was suited to him, hls actions reflected his heart of stone, an unsubmissive heart, unresponsive to the Holy Spirit.

I am reminded of another story of a great servant of Gods, named Moses. If you recall, Moses was not permitted to enter the promise land, after leading the nation of Israel, in the wilderness for forty years, simply because of striking a rock with his staff to get water, instead of speaking to it, as God commanded. For this God was not pleased, even after Moses served the Lord as a faithful servant for the better part of his life.

The old testament reveals nearly fifthteen centuries in which Israel rebelled against God, and He is never please with rebellion.

Not everyone who says, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Mat. 7:21)

Remember, it is always better to be walking the narrow path, than the broad path, which leads to destruction.

How do you observe your Sabbath from dawn to dark ? What do you do from the time your feet hit the floor in the morning until your head hits the pillow for sleep at night ? I want to understand what it is I need to do or not do as the case may be .

for_his_glory , Goldwing has been giving us a sermon in post #66 and I knew you would not want to miss it .

 

[ezrider]

Not everyone who says, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Mat. 7:21)

And what is the will of the Father who is in heaven?

 

[Mister E]

And what is the will of the Father who is in heaven?

“I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. “But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6)

 

[ezrider]

“I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. “But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6)

The question was for Goldwing to answer.

But since you answered the question with this scripture, then I have to ask:

What does it mean to "believe in Him?"

 

[Mister E]

The question was for Goldwing to answer.

But since you answered the question with this scripture, then I have to ask:

What does it mean to "believe in Him?"

It doesn't need some special kind of definition or to have anything added to it. It's belief. It's trust. It's confidence.

I can believe a chair will support me if I was to sit on it, but true "belief" means actually sitting on it.

 

[ezrider]

It doesn't need some special kind of definition or to have anything added to it. It's belief. It's trust. It's confidence.

I can believe a chair will support me if I was to sit on it, but true "belief" means actually sitting on it.

So would you consider a declaration of the 4th commandment and obeying the Sabbath as the tribes of Israel did under the Old Covenant as binding among Christians to worship on a specific day an act of unbelief?

 

[Mister E]

So would you consider a declaration of the 4th commandment and obeying the Sabbath as the tribes of Israel did under the Old Covenant as binding among Christians to worship on a specific day an act of unbelief?

I would if I was an Israelite living under the old covenant.

I'm not. I'm more of a Bud Lite.

 

[jerry63935]

I’m very glad to hear this. In the church we recently attended we know that the assistant pastor:
a. eats in the most expensive restaurant in town
b. hobnobs with ambassadors
c. drove his brand new car as fast as it would go on a country road
d. was praised as the only hero in a company he worked for
e. experienced computer problems as the worst trial of that year

The other two talk a bit less about themselves but that gives you an idea.

if a preachers subject is all about him all the things he has done etc . then he his probably not called all though i know one guy soon turn the message into i know no body likes me or woe woe woe . i have been very blessed over past27 years i have sat under sound preaching .. some of these men dont hold back . been in lots spirit filled services when God moved like the wind . when i am not preaching i take a visit to some of the churches get my food

 

[WIP]

How do you observe your Sabbath from dawn to dark ? What do you do from the time your feet hit the floor in the morning until your head hits the pillow for sleep at night ? I want to understand what it is I need to do or not do as the case may be .

for_his_glory , Goldwing has been giving us a sermon in post #66 and I knew you would not want to miss it .

At the risk of sounding facetious I would like to see the answer as well.

Does getting dressed for the day and making my bed count as labor? If I prepare all my meals the day before but yet feed myself on the day of rest, would that be labor or does it require that I fast for that day? Fishing is a career choice for some but I enjoy fishing for a hobby and often times while out on the water in my boat, it's an opportunity for alone time for me to spend with our Lord in prayer and relishing in the beauty of His creation around me. Same is true for hunting. Spending the day in a deer stand alone with God and reading my bible app on my phone on a day of Sabbath worship is very special for me. Am I in violation of the Sabbath by doing these things?

 

[Goldwing]

And what is the will of the Father who is in heaven?

Jesus did the will of His Father here on earth to reveal the love of the trinity/Godhead.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

And what is the will of the Father who is in heaven?

Micah 6:8