which means what? concerning catholics?
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Discussing the teachings of Catholicism vs Scripture
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
Listen Jerry, there is something you need to know.
I'm the top authority of Catholicism around here.
Don't believe the others.
Talk to me.
I'm the top authority of Catholicism around here.
Don't believe the others.
Talk to me.
please understand i am not that interested in catholic authority . the only real authority is Christ .
it means its scriptures what od you want it to mean?
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
But as of this post of yours you are still here, Why if you have nothing to add to it?
When a post is deleted it is because it has noting to do with the topic at hand, but derogatory remarks made against another member.
Either be a part of the discussion or just leave it.
The New Testament records the history of the church from approximately A.D. 30 to approximately A.D. 90. Nowhere in the New Testament will you find the one true church doing any of the following: praying to Mary, praying to the saints, venerating Mary, submitting to a pope, having a select priesthood, baptizing an infant, observing the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sacraments, or passing on apostolic authority to successors of the apostles.
The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century (and following) church did not have the complete New Testament. Churches had portions of the New Testament, but the New Testament (and the full Bible) were not commonly available until after the invention of the printing press in A.D. 1440. The early church did its best in passing on the teachings of the apostles through oral tradition, and through extremely limited availability to the Word in written form.
The Protestant Reformation was followed very closely after the invention of the printing press and the translation of the Bible into the common languages of the people. Once people began to study the Bible for themselves, it became very clear how far the Roman Catholic Church/Orthodox had departed from the church that is described in the New Testament.
Scripture never mentions using "which church came first" as the basis for determining which is the "true" church. What it does teach is that one is to use Scripture as the determining factor as to which church is preaching the truth and thus is true to the first church. It is especially important to compare Scripture with a church's teaching on such core issues as the full deity and humanity of Christ, the atonement for sin through His blood on Calvary, salvation from sin by grace through faith, and the infallibility of the Scriptures. The “first church” and “one true church” is recorded in the New Testament, Acts chapter 2; 11:19-30. That is the church that all churches are to follow, emulate, and model themselves after.
The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century (and following) church did not have the complete New Testament. Churches had portions of the New Testament, but the New Testament (and the full Bible) were not commonly available until after the invention of the printing press in A.D. 1440. The early church did its best in passing on the teachings of the apostles through oral tradition, and through extremely limited availability to the Word in written form.
The Protestant Reformation was followed very closely after the invention of the printing press and the translation of the Bible into the common languages of the people. Once people began to study the Bible for themselves, it became very clear how far the Roman Catholic Church/Orthodox had departed from the church that is described in the New Testament.
Scripture never mentions using "which church came first" as the basis for determining which is the "true" church. What it does teach is that one is to use Scripture as the determining factor as to which church is preaching the truth and thus is true to the first church. It is especially important to compare Scripture with a church's teaching on such core issues as the full deity and humanity of Christ, the atonement for sin through His blood on Calvary, salvation from sin by grace through faith, and the infallibility of the Scriptures. The “first church” and “one true church” is recorded in the New Testament, Acts chapter 2; 11:19-30. That is the church that all churches are to follow, emulate, and model themselves after.
So far we have seen no evidence of Catholic teachings aligning with the teachings of Christ.
The doctrine of Christ is found in the scriptures, and are available for all to read.
The Doctrine of Christ is not found in the Catechisms.
JLB
Amen! Amen! Amen!
Or pronouncing curses on Christians who don’t believe they way they do.
JLB
I would say the Doctrine of Christ is found in the middle of Matthew's sermon on the mount in the prayer "Our Father".
Every aspect of the Gospel, of salvation, of all we do in life to be a child of God is listed in the prayer the Our Father.
Furthermore, the Our Father is spoken of in great length and at the heart of the catholic catchism.
JLB you can delete this if I am stepping over any boundaries.
The Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church has desecrated the ten commandments of God by changing the Sabbath to the first day of the week in support of Luciferians sun worship. The Pope claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin, Matthew 23:9. Rome’s catechism leaves out Gods second commandment as they worship many idols making various gods unto themselves as they bow down and worship them.
The Priesthood, catechism, the seven sacraments, praying to Mary, the stages of the cross, idol worshiping and the list goes on are all atrocities to God as the Roman Catholic Church takes on the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof and turn away from God having corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, 2 Timothy 3:1-9. The Papacy leads many into captivity whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life as they have no truth or understanding of Gods word. The success of the Roman Empire over the last two thousand years will be its demise in the end of days when God destroys their power as He sends it to the lake of fire forever as God establishes His Kingdom here on earth.
The Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church has desecrated the ten commandments of God by changing the Sabbath to the first day of the week in support of Luciferians sun worship. The Pope claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin, Matthew 23:9. Rome’s catechism leaves out Gods second commandment as they worship many idols making various gods unto themselves as they bow down and worship them.
The Priesthood, catechism, the seven sacraments, praying to Mary, the stages of the cross, idol worshiping and the list goes on are all atrocities to God as the Roman Catholic Church takes on the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof and turn away from God having corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, 2 Timothy 3:1-9. The Papacy leads many into captivity whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life as they have no truth or understanding of Gods word. The success of the Roman Empire over the last two thousand years will be its demise in the end of days when God destroys their power as He sends it to the lake of fire forever as God establishes His Kingdom here on earth.
Everything you say here says very anti-catholic but that is not the problem.
The Bible clearly states we all have to stand before God in the end all by ourselves and answer for ourselves.
And Jesus clearly said that 'if you seek the truth, you will find it, and the truth will set you free."
So catholic or not, once an adult you are on your own.
I've gone to I think 6 different protestant denominations in the past 1 1/2 years, and all I see everywhere is apostacy.
Being protestant ain't no guarantee of being saved, or even taught the truth.
And I lived in the middle of the Bible Belt in Georgia.
The fact is the catholics are taught all the answers are in the catechism.
Regardless of what is false in this book, the Gospel is in plain sight.
Going to church makes you no more a Christian as standing in the garage makes you a car.
There are many Spiritually born again Catholics that still attend Mass as they like the structure of it, but do not believe in all the practices of the Roman Catholic church
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
This verse does not say in the beginning was the Roman Catholic Church or the Protestant Church as God does not recognize any organized religion, but only recognizes those who have Christ in them.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
If you or anyone else wants to know what the catechism teaches go to:
maryourhelp.org / 95 catechism questions & answers
I don’t think anyone ever claimed being protestant is a guarantee for being saved.
Im not a Protestant so I really don’t have to much to say about that.
God called me to be His son, and be a joint her with Christ.
What in the world would I have to protest about?
JLB
Any teachings that are not the doctrine of Christ, will lead people away from Christ.
I know you understand that, right?
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
- does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God
You do understand that if you no longer have God, you no longer have eternal life, right?
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12
JLB
Thank you sir, I understand that.
I discussed last night about the Our Father with a scholarly friend of mine.
He kept trying to answer as you answer without answering my question (statement).
It seems a bit evasive to a lot of people (especially catholics).
I was looking for a more direct approach to answering it without going outside the box.
If you have a direct question then ask me.
I will try to answer with what I believe (which is useless without scripture).
Please ask.
JLB
Mungo
Member
I hadn't seen this thread before, but I came to it because JLB recommended it in the Sola Scriptura thread.
That thread had descended into Catholic bashing, led incidentally by JLB, but assisted by others.
I thought that perhaps this thread would be a sensible discussion but it's not. It's hardly even on topic.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. No Catholic doctrine (properly understood) contradicts Scripture (properly interpreted).
What this thread and the other on shows is that most people here (and Tradidi is an honourable exception) can tell the difference between a doctrine and a practice (or discipline), nor do they understand Catholic doctrines properly, so you get comments like:
The Catholic Church forbids priests to marry - untrue and priestly celibacy is not a doctrine.
The Pope is infallible. No that not a doctrine either.
Bowing worship. No it's not; it's a sign of respect.
I would welcome a sensible discussion about Catholic doctrines and practices but my experience shows I'm not going to get it in this thread, or unless something changes, on this site.
Before I joined I read the thread "A New Vision for a Better Community of Believers" in the Community Message section.
I thought - this sounds good.
Talk about building a "supportive community that teaches and learns from each other, showing patience and grace to one another.
It's hasn't happened has it, at least in my experience.
That thread had descended into Catholic bashing, led incidentally by JLB, but assisted by others.
I thought that perhaps this thread would be a sensible discussion but it's not. It's hardly even on topic.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. No Catholic doctrine (properly understood) contradicts Scripture (properly interpreted).
What this thread and the other on shows is that most people here (and Tradidi is an honourable exception) can tell the difference between a doctrine and a practice (or discipline), nor do they understand Catholic doctrines properly, so you get comments like:
The Catholic Church forbids priests to marry - untrue and priestly celibacy is not a doctrine.
The Pope is infallible. No that not a doctrine either.
Bowing worship. No it's not; it's a sign of respect.
I would welcome a sensible discussion about Catholic doctrines and practices but my experience shows I'm not going to get it in this thread, or unless something changes, on this site.
Before I joined I read the thread "A New Vision for a Better Community of Believers" in the Community Message section.
I thought - this sounds good.
Talk about building a "supportive community that teaches and learns from each other, showing patience and grace to one another.
It's hasn't happened has it, at least in my experience.
As per the title of this thread, Catholicism vs Scripture, this is what we are discussing here. We are showing patience and grace to all who are posting and we only ask that scripture is given for how one believes and that no personal attacks are made to any member.
What makes you think this is not a sensible discussion? We are trying to discuss with scripture as anything apart from the word of God is man's own doctrine that has no place within the doctrines of Christ.
The practice of any church needs to be from that of the first Church established in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, Acts Chapter 2. Practices/rituals of many churches only come from the various doctrines they teach, but yet not lining up with scripture as in what God has already spoke.
The meaning of doctrine is a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church. If those beliefs do not line up with scripture then it only becomes the beliefs of what a man teaches that is their doctrine that becomes fallible as an organized system of beliefs and rituals centering on a man's teaching and not what has already been taught by Christ Jesus in whom the anointed Prophets and Apostles have written their witness and testified of Christ.
Mungo
Member
So tell me, in this mess of a thread what Catholic doctrine is supposedly being discussed?