[__ Science __ ] Do Conservatives have a “Difficult Relationship with Science”?

[Barbarian]

Evolution denies the first three chapters of (Genesis). It has everything to do with the origin of life.

No, both of those assumptions are wrong.

Read up on the theory; it's not what they told you it is.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Barbarian says, "The dying is almost entirely unvaccinated people."
Where is there justification in that?

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian says, "The dying is almost entirely unvaccinated people."
Where is there justification in that?

It's not fair at all. These people just trusted the wrong sources. It's been like that for a while.

June 28, 2021 – If you, a friend or a loved one remain unvaccinated against COVID-19 at this point – for whatever reason – you are at higher risk for dying if you do become infected.

That's the conclusion of a new report The Associated Press released looking at COVID-19 deaths during May 2021.

Of more than 18,000 people who died from COVID-19, for example, only about 150 were fully vaccinated. That's less than 1%.

Almost All U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Now in the Unvaccinated

Investigators looked at federal data for deaths from COVID-19 in May 2021 and figured out how many were among unvaccinated Americans.

www.webmd.com

In Texas, 99.5% of people who died from COVID from February through July 14 weren't vaccinated, per the Texas Tribune's reporting on preliminary data from the Texas Department of State Health Services. (Vaccines became available to adults in the state at the end of March. At-risk people were able to get them sooner.) In southern Missouri, an area that leads the nation as a delta variant hot spot, "almost every COVID-19 patient in Springfield's hospitals is unvaccinated," the Atlantic reported. The dozen or so that were vaccinated, according to the report, were elderly or immunocompromised -- people for whom studies have shown vaccines are likely not as effective.

99% of COVID deaths are now of unvaccinated people, experts say

With the delta variant running rampant in the US, COVID cases are on the rise in what is...

www.sfgate.com

Are these people stupid or evil? Of course they aren't. They just trusted the wrong people.

 

[Quantrill]

Most people by now, realize that they work. So even in my state where mask mandates were supposedly banned by the governor, many schools and local governments are ignoring him and doing the right thing, anyway.

If you're scared, go ahead and wear your mask. Just don't make others do it. You ignore the laws you like. Yet you want others to obey your laws.

Typical.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

No, both of those assumptions are wrong.

Read up on the theory; it's not what they told you it is.

Please respond to post #(48). It concerns your statement in post #(10) where you said you don't see anything in the Bible that contradicts science.

Does science believe the first three chapters of (Genesis)?

Does science believe in the Virgin Birth and Resurrection of Christ? Does science believe the Flood of Noah's day? Joshua's long day? Jonah and the whale?

Your attempt to make the Bible palatable with your science is a work of futility. Which is why when pressed with these questions all you can say is science has no opinion one way or the other.

In other words, you want to make statements concerning the acceptance of your science and the Bible till the questions come. Then it is 'science has no opinion'.

Quantrill

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It's not fair at all. These people just trusted the wrong sources. It's been like that for a while.

June 28, 2021 – If you, a friend or a loved one remain unvaccinated against COVID-19 at this point – for whatever reason – you are at higher risk for dying if you do become infected.

That's the conclusion of a new report The Associated Press released looking at COVID-19 deaths during May 2021.

Of more than 18,000 people who died from COVID-19, for example, only about 150 were fully vaccinated. That's less than 1%.

Almost All U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Now in the Unvaccinated

Investigators looked at federal data for deaths from COVID-19 in May 2021 and figured out how many were among unvaccinated Americans.

www.webmd.com

In Texas, 99.5% of people who died from COVID from February through July 14 weren't vaccinated, per the Texas Tribune's reporting on preliminary data from the Texas Department of State Health Services. (Vaccines became available to adults in the state at the end of March. At-risk people were able to get them sooner.) In southern Missouri, an area that leads the nation as a delta variant hot spot, "almost every COVID-19 patient in Springfield's hospitals is unvaccinated," the Atlantic reported. The dozen or so that were vaccinated, according to the report, were elderly or immunocompromised -- people for whom studies have shown vaccines are likely not as effective.

99% of COVID deaths are now of unvaccinated people, experts say

With the delta variant running rampant in the US, COVID cases are on the rise in what is...

www.sfgate.com

Are these people stupid or evil? Of course they aren't. They just trusted the wrong people.

I am not at a higher risk.
The risk remains the same.

 

[Barbarian]

I am not at a higher risk.
The risk remains the same.

If you are unvaccinated, you're at higher risk than vaccinated people. However, the fact that others are vaccinated, does not raise your risk of COVID-19. In fact, the more vaccinated people there are, the less risk there is for you personally, since you are less likely to encounter an infected person.

However, it is true that if you are unvaccinated, you are at a higher risk of dying of COVID-19, should you become infected, than a vaccinated person would be, even if that person were to become infected.

 

[Barbarian]

If you're scared, go ahead and wear your mask. Just don't make others do it.

Actually, being vaccinated lowers my risk of serious illness to very low levels. But it's possible that I could become infected, not know it, and spread it to unvaccinated adults or to children. I wear the mask mostly for others; masks protect others more than they protect the wearer.

Everyone has a right to not wear a mask,but businesses or public places may require you to wear one to enter those places. For the same reason you can drive drunk on your own land or private road, but not on public roads.

You ignore the laws you like.

l obey even laws I consider to be stupid, since disrespect for law is generally worse than obeying dumb laws. If the stupid law is inherently harmful, one has the option of legally changing it or civil disobedience to sway public opinion. Civil disobedience does mean one is willing to accept the consequences as a moral issue.

Nevertheless, if one decides to protest DWI laws by driving drunk, protection for others requires that police intervene.

Yet you want others to obey your laws.

Rule of law is an essential part of America. We are a nation of laws, not of men.

 

[Barbarian]

Does science believe the first three chapters of (Genesis)?

Science is unable to comment on the supernatural. It can't even say whether or not the supernatural exists. But scientists can.

Your attempt to make the Bible palatable with your science is a work of futility.

Realizing that the Bible is not incompatible with science requires no work at all. It merely requires accepting the Bible as it is without man's additions. As you see, science can't comment on the supernatural at all.

Which is why when pressed with these questions all you can say is science has no opinion one way or the other.

Yes. And why I can, as a scientist, still have opinions on it myself. You're asking something of science that it cannot do.
It's O.K. to be unscientific when the situation calls for that. I am often unscientific myself.

And I see why this is unsatisfying for you, and you keep asking the same questions, hoping that my answers will be different. But it can't be that way. Sorry.

 

[JLB]

 

[Quantrill]

Actually, being vaccinated lowers my risk of serious illness to very low levels. But it's possible that I could become infected, not know it, and spread it to unvaccinated adults or to children. I wear the mask mostly for others; masks protect others more than they protect the wearer.

Everyone has a right to not wear a mask,but businesses or public places may require you to wear one to enter those places. For the same reason you can drive drunk on your own land or private road, but not on public roads.


l obey even laws I consider to be stupid, since disrespect for law is generally worse than obeying dumb laws. If the stupid law is inherently harmful, one has the option of legally changing it or civil disobedience to sway public opinion. Civil disobedience does mean one is willing to accept the consequences as a moral issue.

Nevertheless, if one decides to protest DWI laws by driving drunk, protection for others requires that police intervene.


Rule of law is an essential part of America. We are a nation of laws, not of men.

As I said, if your scared, go ahead and wear your mask. I have no problem with it.

Really. You don't want to follow your ban by your governor but you want to follow the local mask requirement. In other words you are selective in the law you follow.

I have no problem with a private business requiring a mask. Thus all Christian own business's can make their own requirements as to who they let in their stores also. For religious reasons. Right? We'll see. Christians can gather in Churches whenever they like, with out masks. Right? We'll see.

You see. You only support the laws you want to.

I mean, we are a nation of laws. Right?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Science is unable to comment on the supernatural. It can't even say whether or not the supernatural exists. But scientists can.

Realizing that the Bible is not incompatible with science requires no work at all. It merely requires accepting the Bible as it is without man's additions. As you see, science can't comment on the supernatural at all.

Yes. And why I can, as a scientist, still have opinions on it myself. You're asking something of science that it cannot do.
It's O.K. to be unscientific when the situation calls for that. I am often unscientific myself.

And I see why this is unsatisfying for you, and you keep asking the same questions, hoping that my answers will be different. But it can't be that way. Sorry.

If science is unable to comment on the supernatural, then why are you commenting on the supernatural and trying to inject your science and evolution in the Bible.

I don't expect your answers to be different. Which is why I know you will never answer the questions. As I said, you want to inject science into the Bible, but when questioned you run and hide and say, "Science is unable to comment".

If science is unable to comment, then be quiet. Quit trying to force your evolutionary and scientific faith on the Bible.

That is the unsatisfying element.

In other words, if you want to keep talking, as one who has an opinion of yourself, then yourself needs to answer the questions brought before you. Instead of answering for yourself, you hide behind science when you run into questions you can't answer.

So which is it? Yourself or science that can't answer the questions?

Quantrill

 

[Barbarian]

If science is unable to comment on the supernatural, then why are you commenting on the supernatural

Because, as you were reminded, science can't do that, but scientists can.

I don't expect your answers to be different.

Seems like you do. You refuse to accept answers and ask again, as if they might change.

If science is unable to comment, then be quiet.

As you see, science can't comment on these things, but scientists can. If you find this puzzling, consider that plumbing can't consider the supernatural, but plumbers can.

The issue is creationists trying to force their new doctrines on the Bible.

In other words, if you want to keep talking, as one who has an opinion of yourself, then yourself needs to answer the questions brought before you.

It's me.

Instead of answering for yourself, you hide behind science when you run into questions you can't answer.

If you ask what science says, then I can only tell you what science says. There are certainly creationist claims that science can address, but other things are purely faith without applicable evidence, and those are outside of science's purview.

 

[Barbarian]

Carson is the same guy who wrote that the pyramids were built by Joseph to store grain.
MIAMI — Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson on Thursday stood by his belief that Egypt’s great pyramids were built by the biblical figure Joseph to store grain — not as tombs for pharaohs.

Ben Carson stands by statement that Egyptian pyramids built to store grain

Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson on Thursday stood by his belief that Egypt's great pyramids were built by the Biblical figure Joseph to store grain — not as tombs for pharaohs.

www.pbs.org

As you probably know, the pyramids are almost entirely solid rock, so he's not a very good "expert" when he gets out of his own field. They've actually "x-rayed" the pyramids, using cosmic rays, and there's not enough space inside to hold a meeting of the Lula, Mississippi Biden fan club. Carson is prone to assuming expertise in things he has very little knowledge about.

A pediatric surgeon's opinion on the matter means very little against the opinions of virologists and epidemiologists.

 

[JLB]

Carson is the same guy who wrote that the pyramids were built by Joseph to store grain.
MIAMI — Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson on Thursday stood by his belief that Egypt’s great pyramids were built by the biblical figure Joseph to store grain — not as tombs for pharaohs.

Ben Carson stands by statement that Egyptian pyramids built to store grain

Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson on Thursday stood by his belief that Egypt's great pyramids were built by the Biblical figure Joseph to store grain — not as tombs for pharaohs.

www.pbs.org

As you probably know, the pyramids are almost entirely solid rock, so he's not a very good "expert" when he gets out of his own field. They've actually "x-rayed" the pyramids, using cosmic rays, and there's not enough space inside to hold a meeting of the Lula, Mississippi Biden fan club. Carson is prone to assuming expertise in things he has very little knowledge about.

A pediatric surgeon's opinion on the matter means very little against the opinions of virologists and epidemiologists.

Who taught the Egyptians to store grain for 7 years?



Joseph's Granaries is a designation for the Egyptian pyramids often used by early travelers to the region. The notion of a granary (horreum, θησαυρός) being associated with the Hebrew patriarch Joseph derives from the account in Genesis 41, where "he gathered up all the food of the seven years when there was plenty in the land of Egypt, and stored up food in the cities ... And Joseph stored up grain in great abundance, like the sand of the sea, until he ceased to measure it, for it could not be measured" (vv. 48-9, RSV). "So when the famine had spread over all the land, Joseph opened all the storehouses (horrea Vulgate, σιτοβολῶνας LXX)[1] and sold to the Egyptians" (v. 56). Similarly, in the Quran: "(Joseph) said: 'Give me charge of the granaries (خَزَائِنِ) of the land. I shall husband them wisely'" (12:55).[2] The designation was used throughout the Middle Ages and only really abated in the Renaissance when travel to the region became easier and closer investigation revealed the implausibility of the structures serving as storehouses for foodstuffs.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph's_Granaries

 

[JLB]

I wear the mask mostly for others; masks protect others more than they protect the wearer.

Masks do nothing to protect anyone from spreading disease.


The N95 is the only mask that offers any real protection.


You have already been shown the science behind this.


Bacteria = 1 Micron

Mask = 80 micron openings.



Please stop denying the science.





JLB

 

[Barbarian]

Masks do nothing to protect anyone from spreading disease.

Sorry, that's just wrong. As you know, numerous studies have shown that masks reduce emissions of virus particles and even offer some protection to the people wearing them. I could show you again.

The N95 is the only mask that offers any real protection.

No, that's wrong.
mSphere 2020 Oct 21;5(5):e00637-20.doi: 10.1128/mSphere.00637-20.

Effectiveness of Face Masks in Preventing Airborne Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 ​

Abstract ​

...We found that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks all have a protective effect with respect to the transmission of infective droplets/aerosols of SARS-CoV-2 and that the protective efficiency was higher when masks were worn by a virus spreader. Importantly, medical masks (surgical masks and even N95 masks) were not able to completely block the transmission of virus droplets/aerosols even when completely sealed.

You have already been shown the science behind this: #64

If you want to wear masks that have 80 Micron holes, and think it will block 1 micron bacteria, then that is your choice.

As you learned, that's what it does. Remember, it's not like netting fish. Electrostatic charges and van der Waals forces account for the effectiveness of masks. Check the link to 64 for the details.

If you want to take a new mRNA vaccine, then that is your choice.

Because these vaccines work outside the nucleus of cell, and do not even interact with DNA, they are safer. The vaccine molecules go to a ribosome in the cytoplasm, the ribosome produces antibodies, an the vaccine molecules are then disassembled and no longer exist.

 

[Barbarian]

Who taught the Egyptians to store grain for 7 years?

Obviously, not Ben Carson. It's not just that the pyramids (which were about 1500 years old when Joseph went to Egypt) have no room at all to store grain. It's that Egypt had large numbers of real grainaries already built.

Models of them were often placed in tombs. And there are grainaries dating from predynastic period before Nar-Mer united the upper and lower kingdoms, thousands of years before that.

 

[Quantrill]

Because, as you were reminded, science can't do that, but scientists can.

Seems like you do. You refuse to accept answers and ask again, as if they might change.

As you see, science can't comment on these things, but scientists can. If you find this puzzling, consider that plumbing can't consider the supernatural, but plumbers can.

The issue is creationists trying to force their new doctrines on the Bible.

It's me.

If you ask what science says, then I can only tell you what science says. There are certainly creationist claims that science can address, but other things are purely faith without applicable evidence, and those are outside of science's purview.

Again, you continue to hide behind your science.

You said in post #(10) that you don't see anything in the Bible that contradicts science. That's you. I am asking you. So now you answer my questions?

Does the first three chapters of the Bible contradict science? Does the Virgin Birth and Resurrection of Christ contradict science? The Flood? Joshua's long day? Jonah and the whale?

You made the statement, quit hiding behind 'science' to avoid the errors in that statement.....to avoid answering the questions.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

Sorry, that's just wrong. As you know, numerous studies have shown that masks reduce emissions of virus particles and even offer some protection to the people wearing them. I could show you again.

No, that's wrong.
mSphere 2020 Oct 21;5(5):e00637-20.doi: 10.1128/mSphere.00637-20.

Effectiveness of Face Masks in Preventing Airborne Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 ​

Abstract ​

...We found that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks all have a protective effect with respect to the transmission of infective droplets/aerosols of SARS-CoV-2 and that the protective efficiency was higher when masks were worn by a virus spreader. Importantly, medical masks (surgical masks and even N95 masks) were not able to completely block the transmission of virus droplets/aerosols even when completely sealed.

You have already been shown the science behind this: #64

As you learned, that's what it does. Remember, it's not like netting fish. Electrostatic charges and van der Waals forces account for the effectiveness of masks. Check the link to 64 for the details.

Because these vaccines work outside the nucleus of cell, and do not even interact with DNA, they are safer. The vaccine molecules go to a ribosome in the cytoplasm, the ribosome produces antibodies, an the vaccine molecules are then disassembled and no longer exist.

Obviously, not Ben Carson. It's not just that the pyramids (which were about 1500 years old when Joseph went to Egypt) have no room at all to store grain. It's that Egypt had large numbers of real grainaries already built.

Models of them were often placed in tombs. And there are grainaries dating from predynastic period before Nar-Mer united the upper and lower kingdoms, thousands of years before that.

Denying the truth won’t change anything.




JLB