Bible Study Do we love the truth!

[Tenchi]

“You are saved”? Not according to scripture and Christ Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Are you born again also?

???

John 1:12-13
12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 John 5:10-13
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son.
11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 Corinthians 1:30
30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 John 3:14
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers...

Ephesians 2:4-9
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

And so on.

 

[JLB]

Don,
Please do not misrepresent the CC.

We can know we are saved RIGHT NOW.
The verses you posted state that we have to endure till the end.

So are you saying we won't really know we're saved till the end and we have endured.....

Or are you saying we CANNOT know right not that we are saved?
(and then what happens in the future will happen, but what about for RIGHT NOW?)

Please clarify your understanding of this teaching.

I believe we do indeed need to endure to the end, however it's good to understand what that means.

Jesus taught this in Matthew 24 as well as the parable of the Sower, in Matthew 13 and Luke 8. In addition it is also taught in the book of Hebrews.

"enduring to the end" contextually means, enduring persecution without turning away from Christ, (back to Judaism) which is a religion that denies Jesus as the Messiah and LORD.

We must all continue in the faith steadfast to the end, otherwise our "believing" we did to be born again is useless.

I will list the scriptures that pertain to this teaching -

Jesus -
But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:13-14

Peter -
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

The end result of faith in Christ for salvation is the salvation of your soul... if you have continued in the faith, steadfast to the end.


Paul -

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

again

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2


Hebrews -

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

again

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they
fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6


This is a warning specifically addressed to Hebrew Christians who have the Holy Spirit because they have believed and have been saved, but are warned not to allow their unbelieving Jewish family members of other zealous Jews like Saul was, to turn them back to Judaism and renounce Christ as a false prophet and false Messiah.

If they do this, they can not be brought back to repentance again.


This is the meaning of those who received the message of salvation during a time of persecution, as typified by the sun and the seed being planted on the rocky soil.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


Stumbles means turn away from Christ; fall away.

This does not refer to being backslidden, our weak in faith, but a deliberate renouncing of Jesus Christ as the Messiah, because they are being persecuted and threatened with death.





JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe we do indeed need to endure to the end, however it's good to understand what that means.

Jesus taught this in Matthew 24 as well as the parable of the Sower, in Matthew 13 and Luke 8. In addition it is also taught in the book of Hebrews.

"enduring to the end" contextually means, enduring persecution without turning away from Christ, (back to Judaism) which is a religion that denies Jesus as the Messiah and LORD.

We must all continue in the faith steadfast to the end, otherwise our "believing" we did to be born again is useless.

I will list the scriptures that pertain to this teaching -

Jesus -
But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:13-14

Peter -
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

The end result of faith in Christ for salvation is the salvation of your soul... if you have continued in the faith, steadfast to the end.


Paul -

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

again

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2


Hebrews -

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

again

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they
fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6


This is a warning specifically addressed to Hebrew Christians who have the Holy Spirit because they have believed and have been saved, but are warned not to allow their unbelieving Jewish family members of other zealous Jews like Saul was, to turn them back to Judaism and renounce Christ as a false prophet and false Messiah.

If they do this, they can not be brought back to repentance again.


This is the meaning of those who received the message of salvation during a time of persecution, as typified by the sun and the seed being planted on the rocky soil.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


Stumbles means turn away from Christ; fall away.

This does not refer to being backslidden, our weak in faith, but a deliberate renouncing of Jesus Christ as the Messiah, because they are being persecuted and threatened with death.





JLB

Perfect and complete explanation.
:nod

There's nothing that I could add because you've covered all categories about enduring till the end,,,,keeping the faith,,,,not falling away.

The CC also believes that we can know that we're saved....but, correctly as you've stated, we cannot be sure we will be at the time of death.

Where the difference lies in regard to your last paragraph....I'd say that the CC is more legalistic.
What is taught is that you must die in the grace of God to be saved.

So the question is: How do we fall out of grace.
This would require a discussion on mortal sins.

I'd be happy to continue, but in the morning and at my computer. Impossible on a cell.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I'm not sure those whose names are in the book will be read out loud, though we do know that those whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. I could be wrong though. Do you know of a verse that says they will be read out loud?

Rev 3:5 comes the closest to fulfilling your request..."He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Why are you waiting until then? I can't think of any good reason.

I can't speed up the day of judgement.
If I hold on faithfully until my end, my judgement will be a good one.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So the pastor becomes lost every third day upon sinning, then must be saved again?

Every sin proved the prior repentance from sin was a lie.
He won't be converted until he has a real repentance.

 

[Hopeful 2]

This is confusing for sure... I do not understand why anyone who is wholly dependent on Jesus' forgiveness would turn his back on that dependency and declare that his rightness with God is because he does what is required of him.

God can make a righteous man, but man can undo that work of God.
As per the OP, disobedience shows a lack of love for the truth.

 

[Hopeful 2]

For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Co 1:21)​

Answer: It pleases God to save those who believe.

Won't those that believe, obey God ?
His word does say we will not be tempted above what we can handle. (1 Cor 10:13)
It takes a real effort to be disobedient.

 

[Tenchi]

We must all continue in the faith steadfast to the end, otherwise our "believing" we did to be born again is useless.

Then we are our own Savior. Under your thinking, our endurance, in particular, is what ultimately saves us, not the Atonement of Jesus. This belief is in serious error. See: John 14:6, Acts 4:12, 1 Timothy 2:5; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:6-10.

Jesus -
But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:13-14

Matthew 24:9-14
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.
11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

But, then, Jesus also said,

John 15:5
5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

How do those who can do nothing apart from Jesus, expect to "endure to the end"? By what power do those facing persecution and death for the sake of Christ persevere? Not by their own human power, that's for sure.

And:

John 7:38-39
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"
39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive...

Here, Jesus indicates that the Holy Spirit is like "rivers of living water" in the saved person's "innermost being." He it is who enables all those in whom he dwells to "endure to the end." It is by him, that a born-again person "abides" in Christ and bears much "fruit."

The apostle Paul wrote:

Romans 8:8-11
8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Again, it is by the Holy Spirit that a born-again believer "endures to the end." Only by the indwelling Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, is such endurance properly achieved; for only in him is the love for God that God commands of His children obtained and expressed (Galatians 5:22; Romans 5:5). Even if one were to be martyred for the faith, if the love of the Spirit for God the Father (and others) is not the fundamental source for such "endurance," it is spiritually useless (1 Corinthians 13:1-3). It is not, then, enough merely to endure to the end; one must do so in the power of the Spirit, filled with his divine love for God.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

So, then, it isn't that we endure to the end, by dint of our own power of perseverance saving ourselves. Instead, it is the Holy Spirit who has made of the saved person his "temple" (1 Corinthians 6:19-20), who makes it possible for the child of God to "endure to the end" in the right way. In him, the saved person obtains both the ability and the desire to do God's will.

And so, we read verses like the following:

Philippians 1:6
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:4-9
4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,
5 that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
6 even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
8 who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

The person in whom the Holy Spirit truly dwells has no need to fear that they will not persevere to the end. God is faithful, who will bring the "good work" He has begun in the saved person to full completion. They can rest easy in the power and faithfulness of God, of the Holy Spirit, to bring to pass what He began in them.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

Peter -
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

1 Peter 1:3-9
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

To this passage one ought to add Peter's other words:

1 Peter 5:10
10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

There is simply no enduring or persevering to the end except in the power of the Holy Spirit who dwells within every truly born-again person. And since his power is never-ending, and his presence is permanent in the truly born-again person (Hebrews 13:5; John 10:27-29), such perseverance of the saved person is assured. And so it is that the apostle John wrote:

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Those who depart the faith, failing to persevere to the end, simply reveal, not that they weren't strong enough to save themselves, but that the Holy Spirit had never actually indwelt them. The "rivers of living water" that he is are inexhaustible as they flow out of the saved person's innermost being, giving them both the ability and the desire to do God's will right to the end. See above. And so, Jesus's words about "enduring to the end" are not a threat, but a joyful promise.

Paul -

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

again

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

In the passage from Colossians 1, Paul never says one's salvation depends upon continuing in the faith unmoved, but only standing before God holy, blameless and above reproach. Consider what else Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

It is possible to stand before God at the Final Judgment and have all of what one has built on the foundation of their salvation, Jesus Christ, burnt up. Does this mean one has lost one's salvation? This isn't what Paul indicated. Instead, such a person will be saved, he wrote, but as "through fire," or "with the smell of the smoke of hell on their clothes." What, then, does it mean to "endure to the end"? In light of what Paul wrote, it can't mean "having lived well enough before God to have earned salvation." One can stand before God not blameless, not above reproach, not holy in one's daily living, all of their "building upon Christ" burned up, and still gain entrance to God's eternal kingdom. Why? Because one's salvation isn't in one's conduct but in one's Savior. See: Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, 2 Timothy 1:9.

 

[Tenchi]

Hebrews -

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

This verse, too, doesn't speak of our salvation depending upon us, but of our benefiting from, our partaking of, all that is ours in Christ through a confident, steadfast trust in him. Though the Israelites at the borders of Canaan had taken up an "evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God," and though, as a result, they spent the remainder of their lives wandering the wilderness, God continued with them, providing for and protecting His Chosen People. So, too, the saved person under the New Covenant. Though they doubt all that is theirs in Jesus, though they don't, by faith, enter into the "Promised Land" of their spiritual inheritance in Jesus, God still continues with them, having promised never to leave nor forsake His own (Hebrews 13:5) - just as He did with the evil, disbelieving Israelites.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they
fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6


This is a warning specifically addressed to Hebrew Christians who have the Holy Spirit because they have believed and have been saved, but are warned not to allow their unbelieving Jewish family members of other zealous Jews like Saul was, to turn them back to Judaism and renounce Christ as a false prophet and false Messiah.

If they do this, they can not be brought back to repentance again.

No, this passage speaks of unsaved people in the Church, "tares" or "false brethren" who, by their participation in the life and work of the Church, obtain some enlightenment concerning the Gospel, in a second-hand way "taste" a bit of the heavenly gift of the Spirit by taking part in what he's doing through the work of genuine believers. But because they aren't genuinely saved, they often "fall away" in time and do as the apostle John described in 1 John 2:19.

This is the meaning of those who received the message of salvation during a time of persecution, as typified by the sun and the seed being planted on the rocky soil.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21

No, this describes the person who has only an emotional response to the truth of the Gospel (the "seed) but doesn't actually let it "take root" in the "soil" of their heart. The weakness and uselessness of this sort of response to the "seed" is exposed the moment their superficial response to the Gospel is challenged. Jesus is not, then, describing a saved person here at all. The one in whom the Holy Spirit truly dwells - who is saved - does not collapse under persecution.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Faith alone?

Do we need mercy after we are saved?

Yes. That concerns our flesh with it's evil desires and the deeds it inspires because... the body is still dead because of sin (Ro 8:10). But for those who are in Christ there is no condemnation (Ro 8:1). In other words, all the mercy that we need has been given to us and is ours to be thankful for.

But no mercy is needed for the spiritual lives that God created in us when He came to live in our hearts (Eph 4:24) because the new man was "created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness". In Romans 8 vernacular... the spirit is alive becaus of righteousness (Ro 8:10) and the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us (Ro 8:4).

Legalism twists these two truths [(a) that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, and (b) that the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us] into conditional truths that apply only in the case of good behavior. Typically, proponents of legalism point to the phase "who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" to make their legalistic points. But what they willingly ignore is that "walking" is not the condition that satisfies the requirements. What satisfies the requirements is the presence of Christ in our hearts. That is what sets apart those who are in Christ from those who are in the flesh (Ro 8:9).

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (Ro 8:9-10)​

 

[JLB]

Then we are our own Savior. Under your thinking, our endurance, in particular, is what ultimately saves us, not the Atonement of Jesus. This belief is in serious error. See: John 14:6, Acts 4:12, 1 Timothy 2:5; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:6-10.

Sorry but I posted actual scripture.

You basically just said “no your wrong” and posted some references to some verses that may or may not be pertinent to the topic of this discussion.


Please copy and paste the particular verse I posted that you disagree with and let’s discuss it.

 

[Tenchi]

Sorry but I posted actual scripture.

You basically just said “no your wrong” and posted some references to some verses that may or may not be pertinent to the topic of this discussion.


Please copy and paste the particular verse I posted that you disagree with and let’s discuss it.

No, I posted the passages you cited, sometimes with more of the immediate context than you provided. I also offered a wider scriptural context that qualifies and clarifies your particular verses or passages. I realize it's much easier to offer a badly-handled prooftext when it is isolated from the broader counsel of God's word. But, in my experience, it is only the one who wants to protect their error who refuses to let all the light of Scripture come to bear upon their error. So, no, I'm not going to limit God's truth to the confines of your misreading of His word. It all coheres and illuminates itself and I would be very foolish to ponder it in a way that denies that this is so.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

No grace and eternal life and union with Christ in his new covenant church is here and now

Grace... "By Silvanus, our faithful brother as I consider him, I have written to you briefly, exhorting and testifying that this is the true grace of God in which you stand." (1 Pe 5:12)

Eternal Life... "And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1 Jn 5:11–12)

Union with Christ... "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Co 6:17)

It's all here and now.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

???

John 1:12-13
12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 John 5:10-13
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son.
11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 Corinthians 1:30
30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 John 3:14
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers...

Ephesians 2:4-9
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

And so on.

Yes, these are among many verses that speak of our salvation. And seeing ourselves in them gives us great insight into the glories of the wonderful salvation that we are experiencing. Two of my favorites are from 2 Corinthians:

16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Co 3:16–18)​

And,

6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Co 4:6)​

It is glorious to see and know and participate in the glory of God.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

I believe we do indeed need to endure to the end, however it's good to understand what that means.

Jesus taught this in Matthew 24 as well as the parable of the Sower, in Matthew 13 and Luke 8. In addition it is also taught in the book of Hebrews.

"enduring to the end" contextually means, enduring persecution without turning away from Christ, (back to Judaism) which is a religion that denies Jesus as the Messiah and LORD.

We must all continue in the faith steadfast to the end, otherwise our "believing" we did to be born again is useless.

I will list the scriptures that pertain to this teaching -

Jesus -
But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:13-14

Peter -
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

The end result of faith in Christ for salvation is the salvation of your soul... if you have continued in the faith, steadfast to the end.

Paul -

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

again

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

Hebrews -

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

again

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they
fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6

This is a warning specifically addressed to Hebrew Christians who have the Holy Spirit because they have believed and have been saved, but are warned not to allow their unbelieving Jewish family members of other zealous Jews like Saul was, to turn them back to Judaism and renounce Christ as a false prophet and false Messiah.

If they do this, they can not be brought back to repentance again.

This is the meaning of those who received the message of salvation during a time of persecution, as typified by the sun and the seed being planted on the rocky soil.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21

Stumbles means turn away from Christ; fall away.

This does not refer to being backslidden, our weak in faith, but a deliberate renouncing of Jesus Christ as the Messiah, because they are being persecuted and threatened with death.

JLB

Trust in Christ is under assault even today. People everwhere need know that all their eggs are safe in only one basket. And they need to resist all calls to not put them there and keep them there.

 

[JLB]

Trust in Christ is under assault even today. People everwhere need know that all their eggs are safe in only one basket. And they need to resist all calls to not put them there and keep them there.

Can you provide any scripture for your belief?

Let's work together using scripture, actual teaching from the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the Truth, to develop a common understanding and a unity of spiritual beliefs.


JLB

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Won't those that believe, obey God ?
His word does say we will not be tempted above what we can handle. (1 Cor 10:13)
It takes a real effort to be disobedient.

No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Co 10:13)​

The problem with salvation being contingent on obedience is that nobody is good enough. Let's take your verse as an example. Don't think about other people when you apply this verse, think about yourself only.

Every time you are tempted, God provides a way of escape. That means every time you succumb to temptation, no matter how big or small, it is because you chose to not take the way out that God provided.

An honest person's evaluation of his own heart should show that he is not justified by his works.

 

[JLB]

This verse, too, doesn't speak of our salvation depending upon us,

Salvation for everyone is a choice.

If, we continue to believe, we continue to be saved.

Believe for a while = Saved for a while.

This is the core foundation of salvation.

Again, from the teaching about the Sower, Jesus says - (words of Christ in red)

• Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Here is the foundation of our salvation; to believe

"Believe" = Saved

The thing that these in the first group who "heard the message of the kingdom" lacked was to believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Notice that Jesus plainly says "they".
"They" are those who heard the "word" the message of salvation.
"They" must choose to do the believing, if "they" expect to be saved.


“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
Luke 8:11-15


Continuing on in His teaching, Jesus moves to the next group of people -

• But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Notice that these in this group of people, did in fact believe. The received the word WITH JOY.

However, these who did choose to believe, on believed for a while.


Believe = Saved.

Believe for a while = Saved for a while.





JLB

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Can you provide any scripture for your belief?

Let's work together using scripture, actual teaching from the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the Truth, to develop a common understanding and a unity of spiritual beliefs.

JLB

Sure. Here's one example...

4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:​

​

“So I swore in My wrath,​

‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”​

​

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”​

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:​

​

“Today, if you will hear His voice,​

Do not harden your hearts.”​

​

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. [The New King James Version (Heb 4:1–10). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

As was the case back then, there remains to this day a promised rest. And as it was back then, we who have entered that rest have legitimate cause for concern for those who seem to be falling short of it. The example of the ancient Israelites who did not enter the promised land because of unbelief gives us concern for those today who might hear the gospel but not profit from it because of lack of confidence in Christ. Trusting Christ for the safekeeping of one's soul is the only door to entering the promised rest, and those who have entered His rest have ceased from their works as God did from His.