Do you agree, or disagree?

[GodsGrace]

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Romans 4:8 is a fact of salvation and it teaches that God holds Jesus accountable for our sins, and not us after we are born again.
Listen, God created salvation so that its all about what Jesus did and not about what we do.
Its not the "atoning" its the atonement......Jesus didnt say, work to finish what i started, He said, its is FINISHED.

Now, we are talking about God not charging a person with their sins.....In other words, No Judgement for them AFTER YOU DIE, because Jesus has died for them all already.
However, Paul when talking about this LIBERTY, this sinless condition we are now become....Paul says, "dont use this liberty, for sinning".
"dont use this knowledge of what Christ did for you, as a license to enjoy your FLESHLY LUSTS"...
And then the bible tells you that if a person gets into habitual sinning, then they get Hebrews 12:6.
They get corrected down here by God, but they dont get cast away from the family.
So, they can lose everything on the earth ......family, health, money, ministry, ...they will pay on the earth for their sinning, as the law of "sowing and reaping" is still in effect, even tho the eternal consequence for sinning have been nullified by the Blood of Christ.
Paul even says, that if you continue in a sinful lifestyle, after you are saved, then you will die.
So, there is consequence for sinning, but not after you die., as Jesus has already been judged for your sins.

If God doesn't hold us responsible for our sins -
WHY do we have to CONFESS them??
1 John 1:9

 

[reba]

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Romans 4:8 is a fact of salvation and it teaches that God holds Jesus accountable for our sins, and not us after we are born again.
Listen, God created salvation so that its all about what Jesus did and not about what we do.
Its not the "atoning" its the atonement......Jesus didnt say, work to finish what i started, He said, its is FINISHED.

Now, we are talking about God not charging a person with their sins.....In other words, No Judgement for them AFTER YOU DIE, because Jesus has died for them all already.
However, Paul when talking about this LIBERTY, this sinless condition we are now become....Paul says, "dont use this liberty, for sinning".
"dont use this knowledge of what Christ did for you, as a license to enjoy your FLESHLY LUSTS"...
And then the bible tells you that if a person gets into habitual sinning, then they get Hebrews 12:6.
They get corrected down here by God, but they dont get cast away from the family.
So, they can lose everything on the earth ......family, health, money, ministry, ...they will pay on the earth for their sinning, as the law of "sowing and reaping" is still in effect, even tho the eternal consequence for sinning have been nullified by the Blood of Christ.
Paul even says, that if you continue in a sinful lifestyle, after you are saved, then you will die.
So, there is consequence for sinning, but not after you die., as Jesus has already been judged for your sins.

 

[reba]

Kidron said.... http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/sinless-for-as-long-as-god-lives.65496/
When the blood atonement is applied to a believer, this creates in them a "born again" spirit, and it completely cleanses them from sin...(washed in the blood of the Lamb).
Paul says..."Jesus who loved me and GAVE HIMSELF for me".... is the same situation for all believers.
In that very instant of "conversion" we are converted from "sinner" to Saith.
WE are converted from Lost to Saved.
WE are converted from unsaved human to spiritually born again Son of God.
WE are converted ("translated from") darkness to the Kingdom of light.
WE are converted from sinner to Sinless.
All this and more is what happens to all believers the very instant you hear the Gospel, trust Christ, and are born again.

 

[Kidron]

"Doing your very best" is salvation by works.


JLB

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No, not at all, as you cant save yourself by works.
Doing your very best is to be the best disciple you can be, subsequent to your salvation.
Doing your very best, is to strive to do this because you are already saved and want to please the one who saved you that you call "Abba
As a disciple , you please the Lord and Father God when you do your very best to represent them as a "Son".

 

[Kidron]

IT IS FINISHED.

The Sacrifical Plan is finished.
That's all.

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Yes, its a finished Salvation, you dont add anything to it like your works or commandment keeping.
What you do is receive it by Faith., and once received your salvation is Finished for eternity.

 

[Kidron]

If God doesn't hold us responsible for our sins -
WHY do we have to CONFESS them??
1 John 1:9

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You dont have to confess them to be or stay saved once you are saved.
The reason you talk to God about your works of the flesh, is the same reason you tell your mama you are sorry if you offended her.
A believer is in a very close very holy love relationship with God and Christ, and we grieve them with our works of the flesh and this STINGS our conscious.
Have you never read the verse...."Grieve NOT the Holy Spirit by which you were sanctified"?
Thats what your "sinning" does, it grieves them.
So, confession brings the emotional restoration we need that allows us to operate within our Christianity feeling secure and joyful and clean.
But we never confess to get saved (forgiven) again as you are suggesting, as to get forgiven again, is to get saved again, is to be born again all over, and THAT is as impossible as to be unborn again.

 

[Kidron]

Kidron said....
When the blood atonement is applied to a believer, this creates in them a "born again" spirit, and it completely cleanses them from sin...(washed in the blood of the Lamb).
Paul says..."Jesus who loved me and GAVE HIMSELF for me".... is the same situation for all believers.
In that very instant of "conversion" we are converted from "sinner" to Saith.
WE are converted from Lost to Saved.
WE are converted from unsaved human to spiritually born again Son of God.
WE are converted ("translated from") darkness to the Kingdom of light.
WE are converted from sinner to Sinless.
All this and more is what happens to all believers the very instant you hear the Gospel, trust Christ, and are born again.

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Exactly.

 

[Kidron]

"

I see myself, JLB, Jethro and others arguing for morals, keeping the commandments, and a change of our life.

.

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The issue you have is that you are doing all those things to try to keep yourself saved.
This is not trusting Christ to do it, this is trusting in yourself to keep yourself saved by your deeds.
This is legalism.
You are not the Savior, so, stop trying to keep yourself saved by your LONG LIST.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I was not disagreeing with you, sheesh...just adding to what you said.

But it's more fun this way.

 

[Kidron]

Grace
She takes the blame
She covers the shame
Removes the stain
It could be her name

Grace
It's a name for a girl
It's also a thought that
Changed the world
...
Because grace makes beauty
Out of ugly things

Grace finds beauty
In everything

Grace finds goodness in everything

U2
Grace

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So, wondering, you like U2??

I use to like U2, especially their early albums, and in their early years some of their interviews suggested that a few of the band members, including the Edge and Bono, were Christians.... but when they created their last album they put what appears to be 2 male homosexuals on the cover and the pose is "suggestive".
U2 says the cover is a "Father and a son",
,......
What do you think about it, Wondering?
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View attachment 9332

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The issue you have is that you are doing all those things to try to keep yourself saved.

Not.
But I know that is how you are programmed to automatically hear the argument against OSAS. That's how indoctrinations work. They not only give you tunnel vision in regard to what you believe, they also make it so you can only hear the opposing view in a narrow, predetermined way too.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Oh, Jethro Bodine, did you refer to me as Casanova?
Why?

Because you flirt with the ladies in the forum and your avatar is Rudolph Valentino.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are not the Savior, so, stop trying to keep yourself saved by your LONG LIST.

1. Continue to have faith.

Whew! Long list.

 

[Runner]

The gospel message simply cannot be as complex as many of these posts attempt to make it. It is a message that must be capable of being understood by the simplest and dullest of humans - a message like Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9. Jesus' message was not a complicated one, full of legalistic fine print and conditions. His work of salvation was not conditional; to suggest what Jesus accomplished can be defeated if a believer drops the ball is to greatly demean and diminish what He accomplished. The Good News becomes the Not So Good News or at least the Conditional Good News. "It is finished" becomes "Well, I did my part, if only people will now do theirs." Certainly a reasonable case for the position that a believer can be lost can be made from the Bible, which merely serves to illustrate that a reasonably good case for almost anything can be made from the Bible because it is chock-full of ambiguous and inconsistent verses; to pretend otherwise is the route to madness - theological madness at best, and often genuine madness. I have found that, as I mature as a Christian, things like nuns burning in Hell just strike me as silly and as illustrative of why so very many people regard "Christianity" as a sick joke. If "Christianity" is truly the plan of the transcendentally kind, loving and just Creator of the universe, I'm proud to say I stopped believing a long time ago.

 

[Kidron]

1. Continue to have faith.

Whew! Long list.

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Continuing to work to have faith is a work.
You've been programmed to believe that the faith you had that saved you, isn't the ONLY time it happened, once and for all.
So, according to your logic, then, born again, didnt just happen once.

Your theology is to keep salvation going, by your effort, as long as you "keep believing".
This is not trusting in Christ to save you, that its trusting in YOU to keep yourself saved..
You are actually trusting your believing to maintain something that Christ already provided..
God's theology is that HE SAVED (completed the new birth), = when someone has Faith.
So, one of you is (another gospel) wrong.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Salvation is a gift from God.....there are no conditions required to receive a gift.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

"Through faith".....that's a condition.

I cringe every time I hear someone say there are no conditions attached to salvation. They have misunderstood that what there are no conditions for in order to be justified (made righteous in God's sight) is work. But there most certainly is a condition to be justified/saved.....faith.

Somewhere along the line in the church faith moved over to the side of works as that which earns justification in Paul's faith vs. works doctrine.

 

[Kidron]

The gospel message simply cannot be as complex.

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The gospel message isn't complex.
Here it is..
You take Christ by trust, and God takes you as His own.
Anyone who doesn't, is allowed the final consequences of their free will choice and in this way God is relieved of any responsibility of "sending them to their final destination", for in fact, God is just letting them go where they chose to end up..

See, this is the interesting thing about Heaven and Hell.
They are just destinations.
We choose.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Once more John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

If you can lose your salvation...you can be snatched. Guess what? The bible says you can't be snatched.

This promise is for those who believe. Not for those who don't believe.
Believers are the one's who can not be snatched from the hand of Christ. Stop believing and you no longer are protected by God's power for the day of salvation (1 Peter 1:5 NASB).

 

[Kidron]

"Through faith".....that's a condition.

I cringe every time I hear someone say there are no conditions attached to salvation. They have misunderstood that what there are no conditions for in order to be justified (made righteous in God's sight) is work. But there most certainly is a condition to be justified/saved.....faith. Somewhere along the line in the church faith moved over to the side of works as that which earns justification in Paul's justification by faith doctrine.

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The reason that believers say that salvation is unconditional is because its a free gift.
So they are referring to ...."as many as will come"....or ... "For God so loved the world he gave".....which is done without anyone's faith.
But, yes, to get the blood atonement applied you have something to do, which is to let God give it to you by your Faith.
However, to keep it, there is nothing you do, as this responsibility has been given to the One who SAVES.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Continuing to work to have faith is a work.

Continuing to work to have faith is a work something you do.
Get the argument right.

You've been programmed to believe that the faith you had that saved you, isn't the ONLY time it happened, once and for all.

Lol, that's funny.
It's about continuing faith. You know, the faith you started out with...it keeps going and going. This is not about getting born again over and over again. That's actually not possible. Once God closes the door for the backslider to come back, it's over, baby.

You are actually trusting your believing to maintain something that Christ already provided..

That's funny.
I mean it's really funny how you folks are hearing the argument.
Somehow trusting God when he said 'have faith and you'll be justified' is me trying to justify myself. Wow. The church has fallen a long way from the truth.