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Do you agree, or disagree?

Does a genuine believer who stops believing and dies in that unbelief remain saved?

  • Total voters
    20
Kidron said:
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Your salvation is not based on how you feel.
Your salvation is based on what Christ has done for you on a Cross, that God accepts on your behalf.
So, if after this happens and time goes on, you are not as perfect in your behavior as you feel you should be, then this is the proof that you are saved, and not that you come to exist within a profoundly spiritual dimension where all your thoughts and words and deeds are perfect in holiness, as that will never happen in your lifetime.
You will "grow in grace and be changed from glory to glory", and you will look back on 10 years and then 20 and then 30 years of your Christian walk and say..."wow, i use to be like THAT, but now im like THIS"...."look at what has happened"....as only GOD and Christ in my life changing me could have brought me HERE"..

So, WIP... its the feeling of wanting to please God, of wanting to know more of Christ, of wanting to study the word and share the gospel......its the FEELING of wanting to be more like Jesus and hating it when you are not that motivates you to continue to try...is the feeling you should have if you are saved.
So, if you have THAT feeling, while realizing you are still quite far from it, then you are certainly on track.
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With what you just wrote here, I'm inclined to think that the more I desire the fleshly life, the more rotten, the more un-Christlike, the more immoral, the more sinful I see myself to be then the more support there is that I am saved. When Jesus forgave the harlot from her sin of adultery He didn't just tell her she was forgiven and that was that. He also told her to go and sin no more.
 
IncredibleTransformation said:
I'm very sure I'm saved. You confuse me. You quote the very scripture that Calvinists do to prove their theology, yet you don't really believe it to be true. There are many scriptures that prove that people were not really saved even though they acted like it. Matthew 7:22-23 says, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your nam, and done many wonder in Your name? And then I will declare to the, I never knew you; depart from me, you practice lawlessness." In Luke 8 Jesus talks about the sower. Some heard and received the word and because of temptation they fell away because the root wasn't strong enough.

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of Calvinism. Calvinists are sure of their salvation. Arminians aren't. They are the ones that believe we can lose our salvation. I believe the Lord pursued me my whole life, He saved me, and I can't ever be unsaved.
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How could you be sure of your salvation if when someone falls away you say that they were never saved to begin with?

And if you CAN say this, does this not mean that, yes, you do believe one could be "unsaved." only you say they were never saved to begin with.

What makes you think I don't know about Calvinism?
And what scripture did I quote? I can't seem to find it...

Wondering
 
.
1 Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. (Not all are assured of this due to their manner of life in Christ, but they are just as saved as all you perfect ones.)

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (How can this be LORD if my eternal salvation is left up to me and my faithfulness?)
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Paul, even though all these things you write are direct revelation from our risen Savior according to Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.), are you attempting to say in Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (I imagine I will find some of you like him of Gal 1:12) still trying to give himself the glory for keeping himself instead of crediting God).
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: (Paul, you do realize you could be wrong huh? Just listen to their great faith that will never be tested above their ability - They will never cry out to God as did Job in Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.)
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (I reckon one or two of you will remain faithful unto the end).

2 Tim 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: (This is all who have ever believed on Jesus)
2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer (Or endure), we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: (Deny us what in the context of reigning? Do I really believe there are different stages of a believer’s growth? YES).
2 Tim 2:13 If we believe not, yet HE abideth faithful: HE cannot deny himself.

Who is Himself here? Could it be the one or two that remain faithful unto the end possibly of Col 1:24, His body's sake, which is the church: :shame
 
I don't know if Rollo Tamasi (aka Casanova :lol) is following the poll, but we have five people right here in this forum who we personally know exist who believe that some unbelievers will be saved at the coming Judgment.
 
WIP said:
With what you just wrote here, I'm inclined to think that the more I desire the fleshly life, the more rotten, the more un-Christlike, the more immoral, the more sinful I see myself to be then the more support there is that I am saved.
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Not at all, ....
What im saying is ....that the more Christ-Like you become, the more filthy you'll realize that you flesh actually is...
See , real repentance isnt being so very sorry for what you've done, but rather real repentance is being so very sorry for what you are, as compared to Jesus and a Holy God.

Paul said...'that which i would do, i dont do, and that which i hate, i do, ...who will deliver me from this body of death".
= (Adamic nature).
And what He is showing you, Wip, is that when you became a believer in Jesus, and by Faith were born again......A new birth happened inside you.
So, now you've had 2 separate birthdays, once you are saved.
You still have the Adamic Nature, but now you have a 2nd Birthday redeemed and "quickened" born again Spirit that is also 'in there" now.
These 2 fight if you are saved, and that is Paul saying...."what i would do .(my "redeemed Spirt man),.. is battling my Adamic Nature,..("that i would not want to do, i do")..
So, that is the duality that exists WITHIN every born again person.
This is Colossians 2:11, which is a "spiritual circumcision".....where God has literally separated the "new man" from the Adamic nature inside one body.
Every Christian has this situation within themselves, and that is the constant fight.
Everyday the fight is....will the New Man prevail, or will the Adamic Nature run the show.
Will you walk in the Spirit, in the Light, or will you give in to the carnal "other" part of you.
Will you stare at the REDBOX movies and see the R rated ones that call to your Adamic nature and get them, or will you pass them by and find the good clean movie instead (or no movie) that makes your Holy Spirit birthed "new man" inside feel good about your choice. ??????
Wip, that is the battle between darkness and light that exists within every born again believer, constantly.
CHOICES.. are the battle.
Constantly these choices occur, these private battles within ourselves, IF we are saved.
If a person is not saved, then they dont have this going on inside them.....they just grab the R-movie, and have no 2nd thought or "pricked conscious" about it.
Not so for us.
 
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Kidron said:
Not at all, ....
What im saying is ....that the more Christ-Like you become, the more filthy you'll realize that you flesh actually is...
See , real repentance isnt being so very sorry for what you've done, but rather real repentance is being so very sorry for what you are, as compared to Jesus and a Holy God.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. Hopefully it then makes us realise how much God loves us. God knows that those whom believe him hate what they have done but want to be like Jesus. Does he ask for any more?
 
reba said:
Does everyone who professes Christ become more Christlike?
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I would say that if they genuinely profess Christ, if they confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord and beleive in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved. For with the heart one beleives and is justified and with the mouth one confesses is saved.

How could one not become more Christ like? Yes some may confess and may not seem to become more Christ like. That's where we need wisdom and discernemt to come alongside them and teach them. Just like Jesus did with Peter, Thomas. Jesus did not write them off and they became more like Christ.
 
Does everyone who professes Christ become more Christlike?
Better said Does everyone who professes Christ continuously become more Christlike?
 
Cygnus said:
Perhaps you ought to learn where that "very disturbing" concept came from.

1st John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Even Calvinist have the ability to play church.

Then be something else.

If that's a possibility...you already have.

Good for you.

Your logic appearsto have failed.
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Jehtro Bodine has answered well in his post no. 90.
I have nothing to add.
 
Cygnus said:
So you can "jump out" of salvation? I was under the impression the "no one" in the verse included yourself.

A side note, I think if an individual could lose their salvation then Jesus would have talked about it in great detail and not hide it within a parable or a passage where one has to read between the lines to make it appear as if one could lose their salvation. The book of Romans would be a chapter longer as Paul would have written about it in great detail.
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Read between these lines:
2 Peter 2:20-22
 
JLB said:
How much are they
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LOL

They're free JLB!
You don't need a ticket
You just thank the Lord
(All you need is faith)
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
People Get Ready
Rod Steward

People get ready
There's a train a-coming
You don't need no baggage
You just get on board
All you need is faith
To hear the diesels humming
Don't need no ticket
You just thank the Lord
...
 
wondering said:
LOL

They're free JLB!
You don't need a ticket
You just thank the Lord
(All you need is faith)
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
People Get Ready
Rod Steward

People get ready
There's a train a-coming
You don't need no baggage
You just get on board
All you need is faith
To hear the diesels humming
Don't need no ticket
You just thank the Lord
...
Click to expand...
Just for that, you don't get no ticket.
You'll have to get into heaven with your looks.
 
Wrg1405 said:
That makes sense. Hopefully it then makes us realise how much God loves us. God knows that those whom believe him hate what they have done but want to be like Jesus. Does he ask for any more?
Click to expand...
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God leaves the effort to us and we leave the results to God.
 
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