Do you support OSAS(once saved always saved)?

[Deborah13]

I just believe that Christ knows who will be written in the "Lamb's Book of Life".I do not believe that He only chooses a group of people to be saved.I think that we have free will and everyone has a choice to come to Christ.But God knows who they will be.Some of these people might live very,very sinful lives until later in their lives and then for some reason come to Christ.God knows who they are.I believe that all those who are not believers and never will come to Christ will be at the Great White Throne Judgment and their names will be written in the "Book of the Living" along with every thing they have ever done and said.And that also includes every sinful thought.

That's pretty much what I believe too. He knows who they are.

 

[Deborah13]

I think there are those who are predestined, but I also believe God has an open invitation for anyone who chooses to follow the Shepherd.
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I believe the Apostles were at least.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe that God predestines certain men and women to be saved, from before the foundations of the earth were laid. Others are added because of the "General Call" of the Gospel that reaches the lost and they respond and are saved.

Besides John the Baptist, who did not need to be born again, what Biblical support is there for these people who are predetermined to be believers while others are not?

 

[Kathi]

I believe that those unbelievers who will be standing before Christ at the Great White Throne judgment will be written in this "Book of the Living" and everything they have ever said,done or thought will be brought before God.OH BOY! I am sure glad I am saved. :erm

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe that those unbelievers who will be standing before Christ at the Great White Throne judgment will be written in this "Book of the Living" and everything they have ever said,done or thought will be brought before God.OH BOY! I am sure glad I am saved. :erm

Just make sure to keep believing so you really will be saved on the Day of Judgment!

 

[Kathi]

Which makes me think, if OSAS is true, and people are picked ahead of time for salvation,

Just make sure to keep believing so you really will be saved on the Day of Judgment!

No problem there

 

[JLB]

I just believe that Christ knows who will be written in the "Lamb's Book of Life".I do not believe that He only chooses a group of people to be saved.I think that we have free will and everyone has a choice to come to Christ.But God knows who they will be.Some of these people might live very,very sinful lives until later in their lives and then for some reason come to Christ.God knows who they are.I believe that all those who are not believers and never will come to Christ will be at the Great White Throne Judgment and their names will be written in the "Book of the Living" along with every thing they have ever done and said.And that also includes every sinful thought.

God sees the end from the beginning...

This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1 Timothy 4:9-10


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No problem there

"Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider, therefore, the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in this kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:20-22 NIV)

Sobering words written to branches grafted into the Vine.

[ Edited by mod.]

(OSAS says you don't have to be afraid.)

 

[Gary]

I like this aside from

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

How does this fit with the idea Gaz ?

I knew someone would bring this up.

Let's have a look at the scriptures.

Romans 9
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


What do you think?
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[jasoncran]

the puritans ever the believers in tulip taught much on fear and trembling before god.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe that those unbelievers who will be standing before Christ at the Great White Throne judgment will be written in this "Book of the Living" and everything they have ever said,done or thought will be brought before God.OH BOY! I am sure glad I am saved. :erm

Even believers have to give an account to God...

"10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10 NASB)

 

[Kathi]

Even believers have to give an account to God...

"10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10 NASB)

Yes,believers will attend the Judgment seat of Christ/Bema seat of Christ.But we are saved this judgment will not determine salvation.Their will be some who will receive rewards and some who will lose rewards.

 

[agua.]

I knew someone would bring this up.

Let's have a look at the scriptures.

Romans 9
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


What do you think?
.

Yes there does appear to be an element of predestination for certain vessels. It's a touchy subject though mate take a look at the Nephilim thread :D

 

[Butch5]

As I read and follow along in this thread and others on the topic of OSAS, I seem to be recognizing a single common difference. Those in the OSAS camp believe that once one has been saved, it is absolute and final. Those not of the OSAS camp believe that it is possible for a person to “walk” away from what has transpired.

One thing that I see in common between both camps is both believe Romans 8:38-39 to be absolutely true.

“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Here’s where I see the two camps separating. The OSAS camp would add or clarify the above text by adding, “not even we ourselves” to the list of things that cannot separate us. Don’t misunderstand. I’m not suggesting that the OSAS camp is adding to scripture. Absolutely not!

The scary part about the OSAS view for me is that for it to hold ground requires the knowledge or understanding that being able to walk away implies not having been saved in the first place. This is unsettling and frightening. But then it could very well be the truth and if it is, it could be a reality slap and sometimes the truth hurts.

Another scary part of the OSAS view to me is the thought that persons in this camp may possibly be prone to rest on that knowledge and take for granted the gift of God thinking in their own minds they are saved when in fact they may not be. So going on that belief they become complacent. I'm not speaking of works salvation here because I believe good works are the result of a living faith in Jesus. What I'm talking about is similar to how I understand James when he wrote chapter 2 verses 17 and 18.

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

In whatever camp we choose to place ourselves I don’t think we should ever rest or allow ourselves to become complacent as Paul wrote in Philippians 2:12, “work out our salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God that works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”

I am currently working on a paper that deals with issue of works and how they pertain to salvation. I was thinking, however, after that paper I may work on one that addresses the passages that are used to support OSAS. I may start a thread and request passages that the OSAS crowd believes supports the doctrine.

 

[jasoncran]

Would a "true" Christian want to willfully sin all the time?Lie and think they are cheating God?You have to know with OSAS who is a "true" Christian.

I have seen many a pastors say when they prayed a little prayer once and then served god for few weeks, years and lived like a child of satan that the whole time they were saved. I have done that myself. when I went bi I did so while in church and confessing Christ. was my prayer not sincere when a few weeks later I was with a man? I know that I meant it. I latter repented of that sin but if I stayed there. I would be as some posters here who are athiests and have been banned for bashing Christ.

 

[Butch5]

OK Butch and Gary you are absolutely right. It is the same book. I was taught that the book of life was a book that all living beings had their name in that book, and when they died, their name was taken out. And the Lambs book of life was something altogether different. In my exam today, I found that they are the same book, period! So as for the Baptist tradition I give the Chinese chant. pheuy, pheuy pheuy!

Ok, thanks for looking. I had thought at one time they were separate books too. I just never found anything in Scripture that required them to be.

 

[Gary]

Who did Paul say this to and why?

Romans 11
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
.

 

[Butch5]

Why would a sovereign and omniscient God,who knows the end from the beginning, write a name in The Book of Life when He knows He will only have to erase it when that person eventually denies his faith?
Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

I would suggest that God deals with us where we are not where we will end up. If we knew someone was going to commit a crime in 5 years we wouldn't put them in prison today.

 

[Kathi]

Ok, thanks for looking. I had thought at one time they were separate books too. I just never found anything in Scripture that required them to be.

The "Book of Life" and the "Lambs book of Life" are the same book.There is another book that everyone will be written into and that is "The Book of the Living".

 

[Butch5]

Doesn't this beg the question, "Why then did Christ die?" If those who will be saved are saved before they are born then what does Christ's death serve and what is the purpose for evangelizing? This is the part that really gets me pondering thoughts.

That is one of the many difficulties I find with Reformed theology.