Do you support OSAS(once saved always saved)?

[Mike S]

What is the good point they made?

I think it's a good point as well, but it's a point more accurately directed to the Calvinist idea of unconditional election, rather than the other Calvinist idea of perseverance of the saints.

 

[Deborah13]

I think it's a good point as well, but it's a point more accurately directed to the Calvinist idea of unconditional election, rather than the other Calvinist idea of perseverance of the saints.

So do you only repent so that you will not go to hell?

 

[Mike S]

So do you only repent so that you will not go to hell?

You repent when you accept Christ as your savior. Salvation is conditional upon that acceptance and repentance.

 

[Deborah13]

You repent when you accept Christ as your savior. Salvation is conditional upon that acceptance and repentance.

So you are saying that that is the only time one repents?

 

[JLB]

What else do the Scriptures speak of repenting of?


2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luk 13:2-3 KJV)

The scriptures say to Repent, and be converted.

Do you understand what this is referring to?


JLB

 

[JLB]

So are you saying that the only reason to repent is so you won't go to hell?

So are you saying that the only reason to repent is so you won't go to hell?

Do you believe that Repent is a word that is associated with Salvation?


JLB

 

[JLB]

You repent when you accept Christ as your savior. Salvation is conditional upon that acceptance and repentance.

Where does this appear in scripture, that we accept Christ as our Savior?


Thanks JLB

 

[JLB]

I believe you are a case in point of these Scriptures Jethro. Experientially you have lost the Justification of God. You don't believe you are justified for all time and you are. Experientially you have lost the truth of Gods positional Justification of Jethro. You are already seated with Christ in the heavenly as a 100% Justified Saint.

Eph 2:6~~and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Experientially, we can lose Justification. Positionally we cannot.

We are seated in heavenly places with Him, if in fact you are joined to Him in spirit.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

Because you are joined to the Lord and are one spirit with Him, does not mean you can not lose this position of being joined to Him, if you should choose to turn away from Him.


JLB

 

[Mike S]

Where does this appear in scripture, that we accept Christ as our Savior?


Thanks JLB

Romans 10:9 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

 

[Deborah13]

Do you believe that Repent is a word that is associated with Salvation?


JLB

If you answer my question first I'll answer yours.
Answering a question with a question is not an answer.

 

[Mike S]

So you are saying that that is the only time one repents?

I didn't say that.

 

[JLB]

So are you saying that the only reason to repent is so you won't go to hell?

You added the phrase, "go to hell", which created another topic and question.

Salvation is associated with Eternal life.

Eternal life is knowing God, and Jesus Christ whom He sent.

One reason to repent is so we can know God.


JLB

 

[reba]

Where does this appear in scripture, that we accept Christ as our Savior?

Thanks JLB

One reason to repent is so we can know God.

JLB

JLB where does this appear in scripture?

 

[Deborah13]

You added the phrase, "go to hell", which created another topic and question.

Salvation is associated with Eternal life.

Eternal life is knowing God, and Jesus Christ whom He sent.

One reason to repent is so we can know God.


JLB

Ok the reason I asked was because you agreed with onelove 's premise, that if one believes they are eternally saved and cannot loose their salvation then WHY would they repent?

Thus my question, do you repent only to save yourself from hell?

I agree with you of coarse that our first repentance is to recognized (believe) in Christ as our Savior and Lord. Salvation.
But certainly after that there are other reasons for repentence. Thus onelove 's premise that if one believes they are eternally saved they would have no reason to repent.

 

[Deborah13]

I didn't say that.

No you didn't but you agreed with onelove 's premise. That if one believe they are eternally saved they have no reason to repent.
At least that is how I read what they said.

How did you interpret what they said?

 

[Deborah13]

If OSAS was true,there would be no need for one to repent....Scripture tells us to repent of our sins,my question is why,if we are always saved?

Bump

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thanks for showing the post you were talking about, I may not have responded seeing it was not directed to me, Most of the time I try to give the person the post was to a chance to respond first to their own post.

What I asked you was in a later post about it. I skipped that post and went right to the Galatians post the question was about. Hopefully so others would comment, too.

First I'd like to just point out the Paul must have been speaking to the Jews, proselytes, and those the Judaizers were trying to convince that they too must be circumcised, etc. One cannot turn back to believing in justification by the law if they never believed that to start with.

But Paul plainly makes the point that they are indeed turning back to the law:

"9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?10 You observe days and months and seasons and years." (Galatians 4:9-10 NASB)

So I don't get your point. You'll have to show me where it says it's a new thing for them for me to accept what you're saying.

2) If Christ has set us free we can live as we please...."I can do whatever I want" I'm not addressing this here.

The very same problems that effect the Church today.

I agree. Which is really the fundamental danger of OSAS. OSAS must take much of the blame for this 'I'm saved and there's nothing, good or bad, I can do about it' thinking in the church today.

Generally speaking, obedience is only given lip service in the church today. It's believed that it's only value is in regard to rewards, not knowing that disobedience that is not under the blood of Christ (because of an absence or failure of faith in Christ's blood) will most assuredly condemn the person who commits it.

Not doing sin is not what justifies a person, but doing it and abandoning faith in Christ's blood to cover sin, either through disbelief or contempt, will certainly condemn the person who once did trust in that blood. The scriptures are clear about this.

Gal. 1:9 - is not saying they were all saved. Paul here is defending the Gospel message that they had received from him. That is clear in the next verse and others. He goes on talking about his ministry and message that he received from God, not men and other things like in 1:18. This continues into chapter 2, the Judaizers were trying to discredit him.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
So here there is a clear statement that at least some of them had received the Spirit.
Galatians chapter 3-4:31 Paul is making his argument for justification by faith.

Galatians chapter 5-6:10 (about there) he tells them to stand fast in the liberty of the gospel.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

So in verse 1, I believe Paul is talking about the Law, again. As he is through out Galatians. Hagar
Verse 2 - He tells them it that serving the Law there is no profit in Christ.

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

So whosoever is justified by the law, is a debtor to do the Whole law, therefore they are not justified by grace.
This would be a total rejection of the grace we find in justification through Christ.

No one, even those in the OT were justified by the Law. They had to wait for Christ to justify them.

I must have missed it. Please show me where in Galatians it says Paul is only talking to the unsaved people in the church. I see him talking to the Spirit-filled people of the church set free by justification in Christ, but who are being persuaded to come back under the bondage and condemnation of trying to be justified by law keeping.

And, how does a person fall from a grace they have not attained to?


You see, Deborah, Paul is telling the Galatians the same thing he told the Colossians:

"21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" (Colossians 1:21-23 NASB)

These believers are being exhorted to continue, firm, established and steadfast, and not moved from the hope of what they already have. He's hardly talking to people who don't have what he says for them to continue in! That doesn't even make sense!

My challenge to you, and the church is to stop reading commentaries and start reading the plain words of the Bible for yourselves. It is not written so that we can't understand it. And it certainly is not written so that it means the opposite of what it plainly says, as the church so commonly likes to say about the plain words of the Bible.

When Paul addresses the Spirit-filled, 'standing in grace' believers at Galatia and Colossea it doesn't mean that he's really talking to those who aren't Spirit-filled and standing in grace. But I can see how it has to be read into it that way to preserve a predetermined conviction that he can't possibly be talking to saved people because saved people can't fall from grace and lose the hope of a future righteousness through justification in Christ. But a plain read shows us he is indeed talking to saved, Spirit-filled people, standing in the freedom of Christ.

 

[Mike S]

No you didn't but you agreed with onelove 's premise. That if one believe they are eternally saved they have no reason to repent.
At least that is how I read what they said.

How did you interpret what they said?

Exactly as onelove stated in answer to your question, if one believes he is eternally saved, he has no reason to repent. Eternally saved without repentance is exactly what unconditional election means.

 

[Deborah13]

What I asked you was in a later post about it. I skipped that post and went right to the Galatians post the question was about. Hopefully so others would comment, too.



But Paul plainly makes the point that they are indeed turning back to the law:

"9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?10 You observe days and months and seasons and years." (Galatians 4:9-10 NASB)

So I don't get your point. You'll have to show me where it says it's a new thing for them for me to accept what you're saying.



I agree. Which is really the fundamental danger of OSAS. OSAS must take much of the blame for this 'I'm saved and there's nothing, good or bad, I can do about it' thinking in the church today.

Generally speaking, obedience is only given lip service in the church today. It's believed that it's only value is in regard to rewards, not knowing that disobedience that is not under the blood of Christ (because of an absence or failure of faith in Christ's blood) will most assuredly condemn the person who commits it.

Not doing sin is not what justifies a person, but doing it and abandoning faith in Christ's blood to cover sin, either through disbelief or contempt, will certainly condemn the person who once did trust in that blood. The scriptures are clear about this.



I must have missed it. Please show me where in Galatians it says Paul is only talking to the unsaved people in the church. I see him talking to the Spirit-filled people of the church set free by justification in Christ, but who are being persuaded to come back under the bondage and condemnation of trying to be justified by law keeping.

And, how does a person fall from a grace they have not attained to?


You see, Deborah, Paul is telling the Galatians the same thing he told the Colossians:

"21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" (Colossians 1:21-23 NASB)

These believers are being exhorted to continue, firm, established and steadfast, and not moved from the hope of what they already have. He's hardly talking to people who don't have what he says for them to continue in! That doesn't even make sense!

My challenge to you, and the church is to stop reading commentaries and start reading the plain words of the Bible for yourselves. It is not written so that we can't understand it. And it certainly is not written so that it means the opposite of what it plainly says, as the church so commonly likes to say about the plain words of the Bible.

When Paul addresses the Spirit-filled, 'standing in grace' believers at Galatia and Colossea it doesn't mean that he's really talking to those who aren't Spirit-filled and standing in grace. But I can see how it has to be read into it that way to preserve a predetermined conviction that he can't possibly be talking to saved people because saved people can't fall from grace and lose the hope of a future righteousness through justification in Christ. But a plain read shows us he is indeed talking to saved, Spirit-filled people, standing in the freedom of Christ.

My challenge to you, is that when you ask someone to address a really long post of yours and address the scriptures in that post and they do, then when you respond you address what they said in their response to your post.

You said, " Please show me where in Galatians it says Paul is only talking to the unsaved people in the church."
Absolutely no where did I say that Paul was only addressing the unsaved.

So please go back and respond to my post to your scriptures. That you picked out.
Line upon line, precept upon precept.

 

[Chopper]

Exactly as onelove stated in answer to your question, if one believes he is eternally saved, he has no reason to repent. Eternally saved without repentance is exactly what unconditional election means.

Excuse me please but "unconditional election" is God's choosing of the one to be saved isn't conditioned by anything in them. In other words, Salvation is all God.