Do you support OSAS(once saved always saved)?

[Chopper]

You're welcome. I do try.

As an aside, this is precisely why I have warned people many times on here to be careful with simply taking up a concordance to get the "true meanings" of words in an attempt to determine what a passage is "actually saying." If interpretations by biblical scholars can vary by this much, then us lay persons must tread very carefully. Some passages of Scripture are easy to interpret and understand, other parts are quite difficult (think of the Nephilim discussions, for example).

You are right my friend. About the only time I seek comments from other men, I try and speak to the Holy Spirit about a difficult passage. Many times I will examine the whole context. An old preacher told me once, "Read the Chapter before and after, you have a better chance to understand the passage. I have found that to be very good advise.

 

[JLB]

That is my issue with this whole thread - COMPLICATED?

Jesus' own words made it sound so simple.

"Believe in me, and in Him who sent me."
"Today, you will be with me in paradise."
"I am the good shepherd..."
"Forgive them, they know not what they do."
"...Now, go and sin no more."
"I tell you, forgive them... 70 times 7."

He sure didn't make it sound complicated to me. The only people he raised his voice to where the money-changers in the temple and the religious "leaders" (they were NOT spiritual leaders) of the day. I guess Jesus was a bit deceptive. MAN, if you can't trust your Savior, you ya gonna trust?



But I'm just a Pizzaguy in a dunce cap...

You are God's precious son, whom Jesus paid a very dear price for, because you have great value to Him.

You are right, Jesus did make it simple.

The word believe has a deeper meaning than what we understand the word "believe" to mean.

To us believe means, acknowledge or realize that Jesus exists, or that He is God's Son.

Believe that Jesus is God's Son. Simple!

The devils believe this and they fear and tremble.

To believe on the Lord carries the idea of commitment, as well as trust.

Look at this scripture in Hebrews with me:

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief. Hebrews 4:6 KJV


The word "unbelief" is rendered "disobedience" in the NKJV.

If you believe on the Lord, you will do what He says, after all that is the essence of Him being your Lord.


When you repent of Satan being your Lord and your turn to God and confess Jesus as your Lord, you are saying you commit to Him to obey Him.


Bless you. JLB

 

[JLB]

That is my issue with this whole thread - COMPLICATED?

Jesus' own words made it sound so simple.

"Believe in me, and in Him who sent me."
"Today, you will be with me in paradise."
"I am the good shepherd..."
"Forgive them, they know not what they do."
"...Now, go and sin no more."
"I tell you, forgive them... 70 times 7."

He sure didn't make it sound complicated to me. The only people he raised his voice to where the money-changers in the temple and the religious "leaders" (they were NOT spiritual leaders) of the day. I guess Jesus was a bit deceptive. MAN, if you can't trust your Savior, you ya gonna trust?



But I'm just a Pizzaguy in a dunce cap...

"...Now, go and sin no more, seems very uncomplicated to me.

Simple.


JLB

 

[JLB]

But the basis of FORGIVENESS, which I was addressing, which is always there is NOT our faith, as I understand God's Word. As you say NOW and I agree, it is only accessed by our faith, which we are told God gives us in the first place. I disagree with the son returning out of obedience. We are clearly told that when he hit bottom and was eating pig slop that he thought of how well he would be taken care of even if he returned to his father as merely a servant. I understand his return to be motivated by self-preservation which also motivated his repentance.

The prodigal son believed that if he was obedient to return and humble himself, that his father would take him back.

He showed that he believed this by putting forth the effort to return.

If he did not believe that his father would forgive him, then what would be the basis for him to put forth the effort to return to his father.

The effort to return was initiated by his hope in his fathers forgiveness.




JLB

 

[Chopper]

You are God's precious son, whom Jesus paid a very dear price for, because you have great value to Him.

You are right, Jesus did make it simple.

The word believe has a deeper meaning than what we understand the word "believe" to mean.

To us believe means, acknowledge or realize that Jesus exists, or that He is God's Son.

Believe that Jesus is God's Son. Simple!

The devils believe this and they fear and tremble.

To believe on the Lord carries the idea of commitment, as well as trust.

Look at this scripture in Hebrews with me:

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief. Hebrews 4:6 KJV


The word "unbelief" is rendered "disobedience" in the NKJV.

If you believe on the Lord, you will do what He says, after all that is the essence of Him being your Lord.


When you repent of Satan being your Lord and your turn to God and confess Jesus as your Lord, you are saying you commit to Him to obey Him.


Bless you. JLB

:amen

 

[Chopper]

JLB.

 

[Sailingflutist-SF]

JLB said, "If he did not believe that his father would forgive him, then what would be the basis for him to put forth the effort to return to his father."

Like I said, self-preservation.

Your interpretation that the prodigal son believed that he would be forgiven is different from mine. After the son hit bottom and "came to his senses" he planned to return to his father and tell him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired men." Lk 15:17-19 NIV

I don't even think this allows for the conjecture that the son believed he'd be forgiven. He believed that he was "starving to death" and no one would help him "but no one gave him anything" (vs 16.) He said that even as a hired hand of his father he would "have food to spare." (vs 17)

JLB, I am tired of going around in circles with you. The truth is right there, plain and simple. You should know better.

As long as you believe in Jesus, God the Son, as having paid the penalty for your wretched sinfulness, as I have, you are my brother and I will apply Ro 14:1-15:7. I would only caution you about misleading other brother and sisters and the accountability thereof. I am done here on this thread. Say whatever you and your cohort want to. I don't live to argue like others.

 

[Deborah13]

JLB said, "If he did not believe that his father would forgive him, then what would be the basis for him to put forth the effort to return to his father."

Like I said, self-preservation.

Your interpretation that the prodigal son believed that he would be forgiven is different from mine. After the son hit bottom and "came to his senses" he planned to return to his father and tell him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired men." Lk 15:17-19 NIV

I don't even think this allows for the conjecture that the son believed he'd be forgiven. He believed that he was "starving to death" and no one would help him "but no one gave him anything" (vs 16.) He said that even as a hired hand of his father he would "have food to spare." (vs 17)

JLB, I am tired of going around in circles with you. The truth is right there, plain and simple. You should know better.

As long as you believe in Jesus, God the Son, as having paid the penalty for your wretched sinfulness, as I have, you are my brother and I will apply Ro 14:1-15:7. I would only caution you about misleading other brother and sisters and the accountability thereof. I am done here on this thread. Say whatever you and your cohort want to. I don't live to argue like others.

That is how I see the prodigal too. I think he was probably really surprised by the reception that he received.

 

[Chopper]

Actually, I see no point in debating the reasons why the prodigal returned. No one really knows what was going on in his mind. For us to say "he thought this" and someone else said "no, he thought that", We don't know! Listen, this lad knew his father very well, after all he had grown up watching his dad deal with lots of problems. He probably knew how his father would respond to him if he returned. Actually, he had no choice! Now, based on the fact that he knew how his father responded in other situations, I think it would be fair to say that his father would respond in a favorable way because he asked to be a servant because of the guilt that he must be carrying around for wasting his fathers money the way he did. BUT in the end, we really don't know, all we can do is speculate, like this cohort has done.

I do admire the Dad, what a heart of love and forgiveness he had even before his son would show up. To me is shows that he must have had a track record of being this way. Certainly an example of how we Dads are supposed to be.

 

[Pizza]

I'd like an explanation of what you meant by. I guess Jesus was a bit deceptive

I was being sarcastic. Jesus made it simple - man makes it hard.

MOST people who ask "Is once saved-always saved true?" are really just questioning their salvation; they USUALLY question if they are WORTHY of the Lord. I am VERY quick to point out that they are most certainly NOT worthy of Him - and that NONE OF US ARE. That is the point, salvation is by grace, not by us meeting a standard.

THis is why I keep asking: If you tell you that you can do certain things to loose your salvation, then I simply ask "What is the line?" How far do you have to go to be cast aside?

I do NOT deny that if someone TRULY turns their back on the Lord, they will be lost. But it has been my experience that when someone asks about this, they still believe, they still try to please the Lord -but they know they are failing and they get the idea they are no longer saved.

I am here, on this earth and maybe this forum - to loudly tell them that they ARE still saved.



There is far more to this life than just scripture. God intends for us to LEARN from our relationship with Him during our time here - can we all agree on that? Can we? Or is it only about belief?
No, as JLB has pointed out, belief means more than just BELIEVING.

Losing your salvation is nearly impossible. If it were not almost impossible, I'd be lost as I sit here and type. I am about to tell you all something that I have never told ANYONE, and outside of a Christian forum I never would speak of it because non-Christians would not understand any of it.

Sunday, May 22, 1994

I was 34 then, Linda and I had been dating for almost 3 months. We were both at a point in our lives that we wanted to please the Lord, live right and be a good example to the five children that, between us, we were parenting. We'd been batting 100% - until today. We'd spent the day together without any of the kids and I should have left to head home and pick up my boys by 5pm in the afternoon. But, time with her was so precious, I had delayed. I delayed and we ended up in the pool together and THEN ended up having a wonderfully carnal and 'romantic' evening.

It is odd how AWFUL we felt after - considering how much we enjoyed our time together. But we both really felt awful. "How can either of us condemn our kids should they become teens and end up sexually active?" "How could we thank the Lord for bringing us together by doing THIS?" I can honestly tell you I left feeling devastated and I felt that I had dis-respected Linda as well - I SURE didn't show HER what a spiritual leader is like, did I? We prayed together and I left to get my boys. I drove along for less than 10 miles feeling so awful, I could not pray. I only had the energy to pray with Linda around.

As I approached my first turn (to the right) I heard an audible (almost) voice: "Go strait and turn at Bacon road." Well, THAT was odd. I would NEVER take Bacon road - out of my way and too many hills and blind driveways. It was already after 10pm and dark out. I turned where I always did.

In 5 miles, as I entered a little town that I grew up in, the voice came back, "Turn here and take State Street into town". This upset me. I said to myself out loud, "Why would I turn here? Talk about a terrible idea." I continued for just under 2 miles, driving past my parent's home.

I was speeding as I was late, 65 to 70 in a 55. Suddenly, I realized that the drunk from down the road was riding his tractor in my lane, at about 15 mph, with NO lights on it. To this day, I have no idea how I swerved around him, but I did. I was angry, scared and ..... well, angry and scared. I was in WAY too much of a hurry to stop and beat him senseless with a tire iron -that would wait for another day.

I picked up my kids and took them home. ONce the boys were in bed, I called Linda and told her what happened. She said, "That is the Lord telling us we did wrong - you almost wrecked your truck because of what we did!" This sounded reasonable to me. I prayed briefly and went to sleep around midnight.

At almost exactly 2am, I sprung up in bed. I felt a presence in my room - I asked, "Lord are you here?" THIS time, the voice was not audible, but in my head. It asked me what I thought of the events of the day. I responded with what Linda said. The voice corrected me, telling me to think again. THEN it HIT me, and I told the voice:

"I think I get it. You told me to turn, knowing that I would not listen. You only told me so that I'd remember you telling me - at the time I thought I had built a wall between us that no one could get past, YOU reached out to me so that I'd know you were still with me - and that I am still saved and loved." The voice's response was, essentially, "Yes. I am still with you, and you with me. You may move away from me, but I will never move away from you. Now, get up and write all of this down so that you never forget this moment."

I have never forgotten. And I called Linda and explained all of this to her. I then wrote it all down. That journal was lost when I moved to GA in 2000 - but I remember the date, time, etc. as clearly today as if it happened last weekend.

I am a very 'manly' man, but I will tell you that I have not cried like I just did, typing this, I believe, in over 35 years. I am "once saved, always saved"; because I will never reject Him.
My wish is that all could know, what I know, in my heart, as described in this post. Even all the theology and "mined verses" can't change my mind; He is MY Lord - and He always will be.

 

[Deborah13]

Thank you for sharing Pizza. I can't even find a smiley to fit how I feel about this post. God Bless you.

 

[Butch5]

Thank you very much Butch, I really, really, appreciate this.

You're quite welcome my friend!

 

[Butch5]

JLB said, "Jesus forgiveness is based on your faith."

This is an erroneous assumption, but it is one you are no less entitled to embrace.

The BASIS of Jesus' forgiveness is HIS mercy and grace and the fact that HE gave Himself as the substitutionary appeasement to God for the punishment of our sins.

It is our faith, and Ephes 2: 8-9 tells us that our faith itself is not of ourselves but rather of God, in this real basis just mentioned which opens us up to its preexistance. If we lack faith the basis/forgiveness remains.

In Jesus' metaphor of God's forgiveness even though the prodigal son had abandoned his father and was living a life of sin, his father we are told in his son's absence went to the porch, so to speak, and looked to the horizon for his son's return. The forgiveness is always there once we are saved and the children of God; whether we have faith in it or not.

Hi SF,

You said, "the substitutionary appeasement to God for the punishment of our sins." If that's the case where is forgiveness?

 

[JLB]

JLB said, "If he did not believe that his father would forgive him, then what would be the basis for him to put forth the effort to return to his father."

Like I said, self-preservation.

Your interpretation that the prodigal son believed that he would be forgiven is different from mine. After the son hit bottom and "came to his senses" he planned to return to his father and tell him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired men." Lk 15:17-19 NIV

I don't even think this allows for the conjecture that the son believed he'd be forgiven. He believed that he was "starving to death" and no one would help him "but no one gave him anything" (vs 16.) He said that even as a hired hand of his father he would "have food to spare." (vs 17)

JLB, I am tired of going around in circles with you. The truth is right there, plain and simple. You should know better.

As long as you believe in Jesus, God the Son, as having paid the penalty for your wretched sinfulness, as I have, you are my brother and I will apply Ro 14:1-15:7. I would only caution you about misleading other brother and sisters and the accountability thereof. I am done here on this thread. Say whatever you and your cohort want to. I don't live to argue like others.

Ok Bro.

Thanks for your insights and sharing.

I think we can both agree that the prodigal son believed there was a place for him, at his fathers house.

I do agree with you that many times when we have hit bottom, and find ourselves eating the fruit of our own way, it is then we come to ourselves and remember how good we had it, at "our Father's house".

There is no don't about this, as this is what is written in the story.

God Bless you, and thank you for sharing.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I was being sarcastic. Jesus made it simple - man makes it hard.

MOST people who ask "Is once saved-always saved true?" are really just questioning their salvation; they USUALLY question if they are WORTHY of the Lord. I am VERY quick to point out that they are most certainly NOT worthy of Him - and that NONE OF US ARE. That is the point, salvation is by grace, not by us meeting a standard.

THis is why I keep asking: If you tell you that you can do certain things to loose your salvation, then I simply ask "What is the line?" How far do you have to go to be cast aside?

I do NOT deny that if someone TRULY turns their back on the Lord, they will be lost. But it has been my experience that when someone asks about this, they still believe, they still try to please the Lord -but they know they are failing and they get the idea they are no longer saved.

I am here, on this earth and maybe this forum - to loudly tell them that they ARE still saved.



There is far more to this life than just scripture. God intends for us to LEARN from our relationship with Him during our time here - can we all agree on that? Can we? Or is it only about belief?
No, as JLB has pointed out, belief means more than just BELIEVING.

Losing your salvation is nearly impossible. If it were not almost impossible, I'd be lost as I sit here and type. I am about to tell you all something that I have never told ANYONE, and outside of a Christian forum I never would speak of it because non-Christians would not understand any of it.

Sunday, May 22, 1994

I was 34 then, Linda and I had been dating for almost 3 months. We were both at a point in our lives that we wanted to please the Lord, live right and be a good example to the five children that, between us, we were parenting. We'd been batting 100% - until today. We'd spent the day together without any of the kids and I should have left to head home and pick up my boys by 5pm in the afternoon. But, time with her was so precious, I had delayed. I delayed and we ended up in the pool together and THEN ended up having a wonderfully carnal and 'romantic' evening.

It is odd how AWFUL we felt after - considering how much we enjoyed our time together. But we both really felt awful. "How can either of us condemn our kids should they become teens and end up sexually active?" "How could we thank the Lord for bringing us together by doing THIS?" I can honestly tell you I left feeling devastated and I felt that I had dis-respected Linda as well - I SURE didn't show HER what a spiritual leader is like, did I? We prayed together and I left to get my boys. I drove along for less than 10 miles feeling so awful, I could not pray. I only had the energy to pray with Linda around.

As I approached my first turn (to the right) I heard an audible (almost) voice: "Go strait and turn at Bacon road." Well, THAT was odd. I would NEVER take Bacon road - out of my way and too many hills and blind driveways. It was already after 10pm and dark out. I turned where I always did.

In 5 miles, as I entered a little town that I grew up in, the voice came back, "Turn here and take State Street into town". This upset me. I said to myself out loud, "Why would I turn here? Talk about a terrible idea." I continued for just under 2 miles, driving past my parent's home.

I was speeding as I was late, 65 to 70 in a 55. Suddenly, I realized that the drunk from down the road was riding his tractor in my lane, at about 15 mph, with NO lights on it. To this day, I have no idea how I swerved around him, but I did. I was angry, scared and ..... well, angry and scared. I was in WAY too much of a hurry to stop and beat him senseless with a tire iron -that would wait for another day.

I picked up my kids and took them home. ONce the boys were in bed, I called Linda and told her what happened. She said, "That is the Lord telling us we did wrong - you almost wrecked your truck because of what we did!" This sounded reasonable to me. I prayed briefly and went to sleep around midnight.

At almost exactly 2am, I sprung up in bed. I felt a presence in my room - I asked, "Lord are you here?" THIS time, the voice was not audible, but in my head. It asked me what I thought of the events of the day. I responded with what Linda said. The voice corrected me, telling me to think again. THEN it HIT me, and I told the voice:
"I think I get it. You told me to turn, knowing that I would not listen. You only told me so that I'd remember you telling me - at the time I thought I had built a wall between us that no one could get past, YOU reached out to me so that I'd know you were still with me - and that I am still saved and loved." The voice's response was, essentially, "Yes. I am still with you, and you with me. You may move away from me, but I will never move away from you. Now, get up and write all of this down so that you never forget this moment."

I have never forgotten. And I called Linda and explained all of this to her. I then wrote it all down. That journal was lost when I moved to GA in 2000 - but I remember the date, time, etc. as clearly today as if it happened last weekend.

I am a very 'manly' man, but I will tell you that I have not cried like I just did, typing this, I believe, in over 35 years. I am "once saved, always saved"; because I will never reject Him.
My wish is that all could know, what I know, in my heart, as described in this post. Even all the theology and "mined verses" can't change my mind; He is MY Lord - and He always will be.

Thanks for sharing that, bro.

I have many stories like that, myself.

If it were only based on my experience, I would be probably be in the OSAS camp.

However, looking through and examining all the scriptures, and what they say I would be a fool to ignore the truth that they present to us.

I will say this again, -

I for one, am soooooo glad that it is not by my own effort, that I am able to continue steadfast until the end.

For I can say with all honesty, it is by Grace I am saved, and it is by Grace I will continue to be saved.

The faith that I have, comes from Him... It does not originate from me, but it is produced in me, by His Voice, His drawing upon my heart, His leading me and guiding me...

Somewhere along the way I have learned to stay within the length of His rod and His staff, for they comfort me.

I am definitely Non OSAS! However, I know where my help comes from. Without Him, I can do nothing! Not even have faith.

So, there is a balance....

My God has kept me, and it is by His goodness that I have been led to repentance, time and again.

I believe and have confidence, and faith He is able to keep me, and bring me home.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I was being sarcastic. Jesus made it simple - man makes it hard.

He did make it simple. That doesn't mean it's easy:

22 strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said." (Acts 14:22 NIV)

The connection between remaining true to the faith and entering the kingdom of God is unmistakable. And remaining true to the faith is not going to be simple in regard to suffering hardships that test and challenge our faith on our way into the kingdom.

MOST people who ask "Is once saved-always saved true?" are really just questioning their salvation; they USUALLY question if they are WORTHY of the Lord.

I'm non-OSAS and I personally do not question my salvation...because I have faith.

I am worthy of the Lord. My faith has made me worthy. Not my works, my faith. It is actually the Christ rejectors who are unworthy of eternal life, not those who have faith:

“We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life." (Act 13:46 NASB)

What hurts is being cornered by the OSAS argument. On one hand non-OSASer's get accused of questioning their own salvation. But if you say you don't question your own salvation, you get accused of non-OSAS only applying to everybody else, not you. It's a no-win situation.

I am VERY quick to point out that they are most certainly NOT worthy of Him - and that NONE OF US ARE. That is the point, salvation is by grace, not by us meeting a standard.

By extension I can see from the scriptures that I am worthy of eternal life because I'm not a Christ rejector. The standard that must be met to be worthy is the standard of faith in Jesus Christ. Not my works, my faith. There really is a standard for salvation. And we have to live up to that standard to the very end--the standard of faith--to gain what that standard secures.

THis is why I keep asking: If you tell you that you can do certain things to loose your salvation, then I simply ask "What is the line?" How far do you have to go to be cast aside?

It's not so much a matter of WHAT sin can cause you to forfeit your worthiness to be in the kingdom, it's more of WHY you sin that can cause you to forfeit salvation. I have to say it in a 'not so much' manner because there is one sin that will definitely keep you out of the kingdom: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit--that is, rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit about Jesus (Matthew 12:32 NIV). All other sins will keep you out of the kingdom IF they represent this unforgivable rejection of God's testimony through the Holy Spirit about Jesus. A bad hair day in Christ for the struggling, weak, perhaps immature Christian does not represent that person's decision to reject the truth about Christ.

I do NOT deny that if someone TRULY turns their back on the Lord, they will be lost. But it has been my experience that when someone asks about this, they still believe, they still try to please the Lord -but they know they are failing and they get the idea they are no longer saved.

What you describe is what I just spoke about--the weak, but still clinging to Christ believer who has a bad hair day in Christ (which if you're familiar with the OT analogy is actually a very good description of the believers failures).

With a little Biblical education they can be taught to know that they do not become unworthy of the kingdom because of weakness, but only by a rejection and contempt for the salvation they have received.

Losing your salvation is nearly impossible. If it were not almost impossible, I'd be lost as I sit here and type.

I agree that those in Christ are going to have a real fight on their hands trying to wrestle free of God's grace. But that does not mean there may not be a struggle in some Christians somewhere.

We err--myself included--when we project our strong faith onto the weak and believe that they also have strong faith and can and will endure to the end. I know a tongue talking person who got saved when I did but who later rejected the faith and went back to an open practice of sin. Since I know this person well, I know that 1) it's impossible that they faked their gift (you just have to trust me on this), and 2) they had weak faith, not no faith at all, as OSAS would suggest is true about those who fail.

But it's not over yet. I'm not their judge, and God may still be able to do something with them. It's not my call. I just know they departed the faith and started resisting and challenging everything they knew and were told about the faith and complained about not being able to believe.

...I delayed and we ended up in the pool together and THEN ended up having a wonderfully carnal and 'romantic' evening...

Just from knowing you from the limited way we can in these forums, it's hard for me to imagine that you were demonstrating an open contempt and rejection of your salvation in Christ.

All of us probably have stories of where we let God down. Although probably not in the 'made for movies' way you did, lol. Non-OSAS is not about losing your salvation because you sinned. It's about losing your salvation because you have made a conscious decision to trample on the blood of Christ that sanctified you as evidenced by the sin you commit. And God knows at what point he turns that person over to the choice they have made.

I was speeding as I was late, 65 to 70 in a 55. Suddenly, I realized that the drunk from down the road was riding his tractor in my lane, at about 15 mph, with NO lights on it.

Maybe he was a Christian, too, having his own bad hair day in Christ. But I suspect OSAS has him clearly in the 'not saved' category of people. The sad part being, if OSAS tells him he was never saved to begin with, how will he ever know if his struggling life in Christ after that is really just more evidence of his lack of 'true' faith and salvation? The point being, OSAS gives itself space to fail, but says the other person who fails was never saved to begin with.

I am "once saved, always saved"; because I will never reject Him.
My wish is that all could know, what I know, in my heart, as described in this post. Even all the theology and "mined verses" can't change my mind; He is MY Lord - and He always will be.

This very faith your demonstrating is why He is your Lord and always will be. For YOU salvation is sure and unmovable...because you, like myself, have faith. Everybody who has, and continues in faith has the security of eternal salvation.

Sadly, not everybody has the faith you do. They should honesty question their relationship with God. Because faith is what makes salvation sure. We are exhorted to have that faith to the very end in order to make the promise sure. Easier for me and you to do. But, maybe not so easy for others who's faith is weaker than ours.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

JLB
As long as you believe in Jesus, God the Son, as having paid the penalty for your wretched sinfulness, as I have, you are my brother and I will apply Ro 14:1-15:7.

'As long as you believe in Jesus'.......that's what non-OSAS is all about.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think if you will read the post's in this thread, especially what Jethro has posted, you will see the truth that he has presented from the scriptures is not one of works, or sin, or being "good enough", but it is clearly presented as faith.

A faith that continues in hope until the end.

Please read what he has written and carefully examine all the many many scriptures he refers to and then please feel free to ask questions regarding what the scriptures say.

God Bless you and keep you Brother, as you earnestly contend for the faith.


JLB

Thank you for the endorsement.

I haven't had to post much because you've been hitting it out of the park time after time.

Good job.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Goes around and around like a Pizza

But non-OSAS is a square Chicago style pizza.

OSAS is the confusing, spinning run-around. In that doctrine you can't know that your obedience today won't turn out to not be the 'real' salvation you thought is was when you fail later. And if you repent, simply going back to what you did before you failed is supposed to somehow be, this second time around, evidence of your salvation. So round and round it goes...mushrooms and olives flying everywhere. Not even a good dose of anchovies could save a pizza like that!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro, I really like what Gary pointed out and I believe that what he said is very true, and based on that I'm non-OSAS!!

Welcome to the club!

Help yourself to some cookies and punch.

I have gone thru Hebrews, and noted all the verses that warn against falling away from their profession of Jesus Christ as their Savior.
[...]
After my study and pondering the outcome of all these verses. I can't help but to believe that every Christian must continue in his/her faith/confidence in what Jesus Christ accomplished on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

It's amazing to me that more people don't also see what you see. But I know from my own experience how popular indoctrinations can make us look right past plain words of scripture and not see them.

Thank you Jethro for your patience, I love you!

I love you, too, brother.

And thank you for your open show of humility. May we all learn and be encouraged by it.