Do you support OSAS(once saved always saved)?

[gr8grace3]

Thanks for sharing that, bro.

I have many stories like that, myself.

If it were only based on my experience, I would be probably be in the OSAS camp.

However, looking through and examining all the scriptures, and what they say I would be a fool to ignore the truth that they present to us.

I will say this again, -

I for one, am soooooo glad that it is not by my own effort, that I am able to continue steadfast until the end.

For I can say with all honesty, it is by Grace I am saved, and it is by Grace I will continue to be saved.

The faith that I have, comes from Him... It does not originate from me, but it is produced in me, by His Voice, His drawing upon my heart, His leading me and guiding me...

Somewhere along the way I have learned to stay within the length of His rod and His staff, for they comfort me.

I am definitely Non OSAS! However, I know where my help comes from. Without Him, I can do nothing! Not even have faith.

So, there is a balance....

My God has kept me, and it is by His goodness that I have been led to repentance, time and again.

I believe and have confidence, and faith He is able to keep me, and bring me home.


JLB

This is what I can't wrap my head around and makes no sense to me.

You said,

I for one, am soooooo glad that it is not by my own effort, that I am able to continue steadfast until the end.

For I can say with all honesty, it is by Grace I am saved, and it is by Grace I will continue to be saved.

The faith that I have, comes from Him... It does not originate from me, but it is produced in me, by His Voice, His drawing upon my heart, His leading me and guiding me...


If it is not by your own effort and does not originate from you.

Then who's effort fails if you lost your salvation?

 

[Chopper]

Welcome to the club!

Help yourself to some cookies and punch.



It's amazing to me that more people don't also see what you see. But I know from my own experience how popular indoctrinations can make us look right past plain words of scripture and not see them.



I love you, too, brother.

And thank you for your open show of humility. May we all learn and be encouraged by it.

Thank you for those kind words. It is an unfortunate thing when folk like me, that have been taught wrong doctrine for years, and they have traveled in circles of like doctrine, never to be exposed to opposing theology, they are stuck spiritually speaking.

When an opposing doctrine enters their "stuck" theology, the first thing we do is justify our beliefs. The Holy Spirit is so patient with us until He has had enough, and little by little we begin to see Truth that He presents to our thinking. I find that I am very reluctant to change my theology because for years I have been a defender of Biblical truth. That's what apologetics is all about.

Our lives should be an example of humility, (I fall short) in that we are open to the Holy Spirit for change. I have found, that the best way to accomplish this is to surrender our theology to the Holy Spirit every day, preferably in the morning. I have been doing this for quite some time now as well as surrendering my entire life to my Master Jesus. I say this because I can't suggest something for others to do that is not my own practice.

You are an exceptional teacher of the Word of God my friend, God bless you!

 

[Pizza]

This entire post is an example of why your posts are always a must-read. Iv'e got to run, but two things first:

He did make it simple. That doesn't mean it's easy:

22 strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said." (Acts 14:22 NIV)

The connection between remaining true to the faith and entering the kingdom of God is unmistakable. And remaining true to the faith is not going to be simple in regard to suffering hardships that test and challenge our faith on our way into the kingdom.

My sister's M.S., and the senseless suffering speak to this very well. It is harder on MY faith than her's; in fact, her faith seems to be getting stronger over this, mine is challenged by it.

Maybe he was a Christian, too, having his own bad hair day in Christ. But I suspect OSAS has him clearly in the 'not saved' category of people. The sad part being, if OSAS tells him he was never saved to begin with, how will he ever know if his struggling life in Christ after that is really just more evidence of his lack of 'true' faith and salvation? The point being, OSAS gives itself space to fail, but says the other person who fails was never saved to begin with.

His life seemed to be all "bad hair days".
I knew that guy only for about 12 years, he is the father of one of my high school friends. While my friend showed no sign of knowing the Lord, I do believe his often-drunk father DID know the Lord.
He struggled with alcohol until he died in his 50's, just a few years after this incident.

Saved or not, the Lord used him that night. But, while I gave no indication above, I lean towards the idea that the Lord used one of His own to reach one of His own that night.
I at least LIKE to THINK that...

 

[Pizza]

1) Just from knowing you from the limited way we can in these forums, it's hard for me to imagine that you were demonstrating an open contempt and rejection of your salvation in Christ.

2) All of us probably have stories of where we let God down. Although probably not in the 'made for movies' way you did, lol. Non-OSAS is not about losing your salvation because you sinned. It's about losing your salvation because you have made a conscious decision to trample on the blood of Christ that sanctified you as evidenced by the sin you commit. And God knows at what point he turns that person over to the choice they have made.

1) No, of course not. Were that the case, the anguish we both felt would not have been an issue! And this is my point to people, losing your salvation is something you must STRIVE to do - it is not something that you won't be aware of. (That is, if you knew Him in the first place.) And as to those who didn't really know Him, I can see where OSAS is a deceptive teaching. Just like non-OSAS can be damaging (IMO) by discouraging people due to what I describe in 2) below. Again, nothing you have said in this thread is something I would categorize as damaging in any way.

2) Totally agree. But the non-OSAS viewpoint is often portrayed (by one side or the other) as "better watch your step, you never know when you have blown it". I encountered this in a 'full gospel' or 'pentacostal" church some 20 years ago. Again, nothing you have said here indicates such error.

 

[Pizza]

Actually, Jethro, after reading your post 716 - I'm as non-OSAS as you are.

 

[Deborah13]

Actually, Jethro, after reading your post 716 - I'm as non-OSAS as you are.

Actually that is exactly what I was thinking when I read that post from Jethro Bodine .

 

[gr8grace3]

Welcome to the club!

Help yourself to some cookies and punch.



It's amazing to me that more people don't also see what you see. But I know from my own experience how popular indoctrinations can make us look right past plain words of scripture and not see them.



I love you, too, brother.

And thank you for your open show of humility. May we all learn and be encouraged by it.

Here are some plain words of scripture that teach eternal security for the believer.

and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:28-30)The word “never” in John 10:28-30 is a double negative in the Greek and means never, no not ever.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1).....The KJV of romans 8:1 translated this incorrectly. “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit,” Is not in the originals. The verb “are” is eime in the Greek and means the absolute status quo existence, referring to those who always keep on being in Christ Jesus. If there was a chance you could lose your salvation, it would not say “to those who always keep on being in Christ Jesus.”

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created(We are included in creation) thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

And the witness is this,that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:11-13).....At that time they believed and at that time they needed to KNOW that they have eternal life....they have eternal life at that time. If they could lose that life at anytime, it would not be ETERNAL.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. (Romans 5:8-9)......Not "might" or "maybe" but SHALL be saved.

And if He did the most for us as enemies, gave His Son. How much more can we expect from Him as children?

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? (Romans 8:31-32)

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:26) Again, the verb "are" in the Greek is eime which is an absolute status guo verb and means it will always be this way.

Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge. (2 Corinthians 1:21-22) God Gave us His very own pledge. It is not a pledge from fallible man. It is a pledge from an Infallible God.

 

[Sailingflutist-SF]

Sorry Chopper. I said I wouldn't contribute any more to this thread but what you said regarding what I had just said was just too much.

Even AFTER I gave the place in Luke where this parable is and quoted several relvant verses, Chopper said, "Actually, I see no point in debating the reasons why the prodigal returned. No one really knows what was going on in his mind. For us to say "he thought this" and someone else said "no, he thought that", We don't know!"

We DO know, brother, unless you think God's Word is fallable and errant.

Lk 15:17-18a NIV "When he came to his senses he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death. I will go back to my father and say to him, "Father, I have sinned agianst heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' So he got up and went to his father."

 

[reba]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Sailingflutist-SF]

That is how I see the prodigal too. I think he was probably really surprised by the reception that he received.

Somehow my like button has disappeared for this thread but NOT any others. Interesting. Anyway, I just wanted to like your comment but I had to use the reply to do it. Thnak you for saying that you also understand it the same as me, Deborah. It is comforting to know this however you better hope that your "like" button doesn't also disappear.

 

[gr8grace3]

Sorry Chopper. I said I wouldn't contribute any more to this thread but what you said regarding what I had just said was just too much.

Even AFTER I gave the place in Luke where this parable is and quoted several relvant verses, Chopper said, "Actually, I see no point in debating the reasons why the prodigal returned. No one really knows what was going on in his mind. For us to say "he thought this" and someone else said "no, he thought that", We don't know!"

We DO know, brother, unless you think God's Word is fallable and errant.

Lk 15:17-18a NIV "When he came to his senses he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death. I will go back to my father and say to him, "Father, I have sinned agianst heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' So he got up and went to his father."

Yes, And the son might of believed that he was no longer worthy, but the Father Always thought of him as a son and always will. Even the Proud, self righteous, arrogant older brother was still considered a son.

This story is ultimately about the Father not the Sons.

 

[reba]

Not all forums have the like button..

 

[Deborah13]

Yes, And the son might of believed that he was no longer worthy, but the Father Always thought of him as a son and always will. Even the Proud, self righteous, arrogant older brother was still considered a son.

This story is ultimately about the Father not the Sons.

I agree, that is about the Father.
And people have a tendency to only look at the obviously messed up brother and not at the attitude of the "good boy".

 

[JLB]

This is what I can't wrap my head around and makes no sense to me.

You said,

I for one, am soooooo glad that it is not by my own effort, that I am able to continue steadfast until the end.

For I can say with all honesty, it is by Grace I am saved, and it is by Grace I will continue to be saved.

The faith that I have, comes from Him... It does not originate from me, but it is produced in me, by His Voice, His drawing upon my heart, His leading me and guiding me...


If it is not by your own effort and does not originate from you.

Then who's effort fails if you lost your salvation?

For it is God who works in me, to both will and do His good pleasure. Philippians 2:13


JLB

 

[Chopper]

This is what I can't wrap my head around and makes no sense to me.

You said,

I for one, am soooooo glad that it is not by my own effort, that I am able to continue steadfast until the end.

For I can say with all honesty, it is by Grace I am saved, and it is by Grace I will continue to be saved.

The faith that I have, comes from Him... It does not originate from me, but it is produced in me, by His Voice, His drawing upon my heart, His leading me and guiding me...


If it is not by your own effort and does not originate from you.

Then who's effort fails if you lost your salvation?

My thinking is this gr8grace3, with all our convictions, there is a combination of self, and God. God is always the outside influence, and does not change. I on the other hand can change. So you introduce a question, "who's effort fails if you lost your Salvation?" Is it not obvious to you that it would be me that fails? In Scripture, there are various means presented to us, from the evil one, to walk away from our position in Christ Jesus. Satan is the great deceiver, capable of deceiving the very elect of God. He tried to deceive Jesus in the wilderness, so we don't pose much of a problem in his mind.

Now, here comes the man called JLB, who places all his trust in Jesus to keep him on the narrow road. Jesus will not fail in keeping him, period....But to answer your question, it would be JLB who would fail.

 

[Edward]

Somehow my like button has disappeared for this thread but NOT any others. Interesting. Anyway, I just wanted to like your comment but I had to use the reply to do it. Thnak you for saying that you also understand it the same as me, Deborah. It is comforting to know this however you better hope that your "like" button doesn't also disappear.

This is how I see it too. The son knew that the father treated the hired hands very well and realized that he would be better off at least as a hired hand...and was surprised at the reception he got.

 

[JLB]

Here are some plain words of scripture that teach eternal security for the believer.

and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:28-30)The word “never” in John 10:28-30 is a double negative in the Greek and means never, no not ever.
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1).....The KJV of romans 8:1 translated this incorrectly. “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit,” Is not in the originals. The verb “are” is eime in the Greek and means the absolute status quo existence, referring to those who always keep on being in Christ Jesus. If there was a chance you could lose your salvation, it would not say “to those who always keep on being in Christ Jesus.”
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created(We are included in creation) thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)
And the witness is this,that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:11-13).....At that time they believed and at that time they needed to KNOW that they have eternal life....they have eternal life at that time. If they could lose that life at anytime, it would not be ETERNAL.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. (Romans 5:8-9)......Not "might" or "maybe" but SHALL be saved.
And if He did the most for us as enemies, gave His Son. How much more can we expect from Him as children?

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? (Romans 8:31-32)

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:26) Again, the verb "are" in the Greek is eime which is an absolute status guo verb and means it will always be this way.

Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge. (2 Corinthians 1:21-22) God Gave us His very own pledge. It is not a pledge from fallible man. It is a pledge from an Infallible God.

I believe that no one will be able to snatch me out of His hand.

That is called faith. I believe this.


There are many many exceedingly precious promises, just as you have listed, and I believe them and have faith in what he promised me.

as Peter both taught us, and stirred us up to remember -

1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 12 For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:1-12


JLB

 

[Chopper]

This entire post is an example of why your posts are always a must-read. Iv'e got to run, but two things first:

My sister's M.S., and the senseless suffering speak to this very well. It is harder on MY faith than her's; in fact, her faith seems to be getting stronger over this, mine is challenged by it.




His life seemed to be all "bad hair days".
I knew that guy only for about 12 years, he is the father of one of my high school friends. While my friend showed no sign of knowing the Lord, I do believe his often-drunk father DID know the Lord.
He struggled with alcohol until he died in his 50's, just a few years after this incident.

Saved or not, the Lord used him that night. But, while I gave no indication above, I lean towards the idea that the Lord used one of His own to reach one of His own that night.
I at least LIKE to THINK that...

My sister's M.S., and the senseless suffering speak to this very well. It is harder on MY faith than her's; in fact, her faith seems to be getting stronger over this, mine is challenged by it.... Oh my, I don't think I knew about your sister. She must be a wonderful woman of God to put up with MS and not be angry with God....How long has she had MS? Would you please tell me more about her? I'd like to pray for her, and you could let me know of her needs.

 

[gr8grace3]

My thinking is this gr8grace3, with all our convictions, there is a combination of self, and God. God is always the outside influence, and does not change. I on the other hand can change. So you introduce a question, "who's effort fails if you lost your Salvation?" Is it not obvious to you that it would be me that fails? In Scripture, there are various means presented to us, from the evil one, to walk away from our position in Christ Jesus. Satan is the great deceiver, capable of deceiving the very elect of God. He tried to deceive Jesus in the wilderness, so we don't pose much of a problem in his mind.

Now, here comes the man called JLB, who places all his trust in Jesus to keep him on the narrow road. Jesus will not fail in keeping him, period....But to answer your question, it would be JLB who would fail.

It still does not make sense Chopper.

You said,

Jesus will not fail in keeping him, period.
---------------
If one loses their salvation, by any means. Jesus failed at keeping them. Even if Jesus "let them Go" on their own freewill. Jesus still failed at keeping them.

 

[JLB]

Sorry Chopper. I said I wouldn't contribute any more to this thread but what you said regarding what I had just said was just too much.

Even AFTER I gave the place in Luke where this parable is and quoted several relvant verses, Chopper said, "Actually, I see no point in debating the reasons why the prodigal returned. No one really knows what was going on in his mind. For us to say "he thought this" and someone else said "no, he thought that", We don't know!"

We DO know, brother, unless you think God's Word is fallable and errant.

Lk 15:17-18a NIV "When he came to his senses he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death. I will go back to my father and say to him, "Father, I have sinned agianst heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' So he got up and went to his father."

Agreed, the prodigal son believed that there would be a place for him in his father's house.

His belief was in his father's character, as he realized how his father treated the hired help.

In the end, his faith was in his father, not in his ability to "convince" his father to allow him to return, or his own self worth to his father.

Faith in the father, not in his own self, is what moved him to action.

The action of returning to his father, is what justified his belief, that his father would accept him back.


JLB