Chopper
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Bible Study Ecclesiastes, A Bible Study by Chopper & Reba.
- Thread starter Chopper
- Start date
Chopper
Member
Satan created himself.... Because so many people twist these Scriptures to mean that God creates evil, folk not as learned as you, need a little help. I'm a teacher EZ that's what I do. Please don't criticize me for operating in the call of God. Are you now my judge? Are you now the judge of God?
I'm offended by your approach. I have nothing but love and admiration for you. It hurts when you jump on me like this.
Not_Now.Soon
Member
Well with Reba's warning and my desire to continue this bible study, let's backtrack and move forward.
Your questions Chopper about what Solomon was thinking when he said to search out by wisdom all that's done under heaven, or what prompted the statement of what prompted him to say "he who increases in knowledge increases in sorrow." That got me thinking about it from a different light. I've always read the chapters without much separation. That in chapter one, Solomon made his case, that everything is meaningless (from the translation I read first time I read it.). That Solomon searched out what's done under heaven, and still comes to the same conclusion. And in chapter two Solomon describes all that he had done. Support that he is a man who knows and his conclusion can be trusted.
However pairing the two statements of searching the things done under heaven and increase in knowledge increases sorrow, makes it seem maybe there was something more then just looking back on one's life after a lifetime of searching the meaning of life and it's purpose. It could have been a set of events that brought on depression and reflection in a negitive light. Honestly who would know?
That said let's move on to the next chapter.
Good remarks everyone. Rollo, come on back, schools in session, don't be tardy or you'll see.
Ecclesiastes 1:13 "And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with.
1:14 I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind.
1:15 What is crooked cannot be made straight, and what is lacking cannot be counted.
1:16 I said in my heart, "I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge."
1:17 And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.
1:18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
What an interesting statement of Solomon. "to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven" I wonder, what was he thinking?
At this point in time for Solomon, there doesn't seem to be any purpose for his life. I find Solomon's statement, being a psychologist, classic depression. This kind of depression leads to suicide.
I wonder what kind of situations would prompt Solomon to make this statement, "he who increases knowledge increases sorrow."
Hmmm any thoughts?
Your questions Chopper about what Solomon was thinking when he said to search out by wisdom all that's done under heaven, or what prompted the statement of what prompted him to say "he who increases in knowledge increases in sorrow." That got me thinking about it from a different light. I've always read the chapters without much separation. That in chapter one, Solomon made his case, that everything is meaningless (from the translation I read first time I read it.). That Solomon searched out what's done under heaven, and still comes to the same conclusion. And in chapter two Solomon describes all that he had done. Support that he is a man who knows and his conclusion can be trusted.
However pairing the two statements of searching the things done under heaven and increase in knowledge increases sorrow, makes it seem maybe there was something more then just looking back on one's life after a lifetime of searching the meaning of life and it's purpose. It could have been a set of events that brought on depression and reflection in a negitive light. Honestly who would know?
That said let's move on to the next chapter.
Not_Now.Soon
Member
Ecclesiastes 2:1-16
I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity.
2 I said of laughter, It is mad: and of mirth, What doeth it?
3 I sought in mine heart to give myself unto wine, yet acquainting mine heart with wisdom; and to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was that good for the sons of men, which they should do under the heaven all the days of their life.
4 I made me great works; I builded me houses; I planted me vineyards:
5 I made me gardens and orchards, and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits:
6 I made me pools of water, to water therewith the wood that bringeth forth trees:
7 I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me:
8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments, and that of all sorts.
9 So I was great, and increased more than all that were before me in Jerusalem: also my wisdom remained with me.
10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour.
11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.
12 And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness, and folly: for what can the man do that cometh after the king? even that which hath been already done.
13 Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness.
14 The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: and I myself perceived also that one event happeneth to them all.
15 Then said I in my heart, As it happeneth to the fool, so it happeneth even to me; and why was I then more wise? Then I said in my heart, that this also is vanity.
16 For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool.
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One thing that pops in my mind is that all of these things Solomon did and saying it's all in vain, is the idea in the New Testiment that you can't earn your salvation. I know it's a different subject matter but they just kind of reminded me of eachother. Working for salvation, and working for anything of a lasting value.
I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity.
2 I said of laughter, It is mad: and of mirth, What doeth it?
3 I sought in mine heart to give myself unto wine, yet acquainting mine heart with wisdom; and to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was that good for the sons of men, which they should do under the heaven all the days of their life.
4 I made me great works; I builded me houses; I planted me vineyards:
5 I made me gardens and orchards, and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits:
6 I made me pools of water, to water therewith the wood that bringeth forth trees:
7 I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me:
8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments, and that of all sorts.
9 So I was great, and increased more than all that were before me in Jerusalem: also my wisdom remained with me.
10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour.
11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.
12 And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness, and folly: for what can the man do that cometh after the king? even that which hath been already done.
13 Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness.
14 The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: and I myself perceived also that one event happeneth to them all.
15 Then said I in my heart, As it happeneth to the fool, so it happeneth even to me; and why was I then more wise? Then I said in my heart, that this also is vanity.
16 For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool.
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One thing that pops in my mind is that all of these things Solomon did and saying it's all in vain, is the idea in the New Testiment that you can't earn your salvation. I know it's a different subject matter but they just kind of reminded me of eachother. Working for salvation, and working for anything of a lasting value.
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ezrider
Member
I'm sorry, but I've lost sight of the point of this thread. This is supposed to be a Bible study, but what are we studying? Are we studying to find the wisdom in the Spirit of the message? Or are we studying the words contained in that message? Sometimes the Spirit leads where it wills, and it is not always where we think it should go, we have only but to follow. The words in the book we can always return to. So if this is a Bible study on the words written in the book of Ecclesiastes, then the last thing I recall that pertained to the actual scripture was Rollo's concern over the sun rising and setting.
Eccl 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
But the sun does not go to his place from where he arose. I have seen the sun rise from the south and move to the north, and likewise has the sun set in a similar fashion. I have seen the days grow longer, and then the days grow shorter. I have been to Alaska twice: the first time the sun never set, the second time it never rose.
Eccl 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea;
This too is inaccurate. The Truckee river in northern Nevada begins from Lake Tahoe, and flows into the Great Basin. It does not flow out into the sea. Any moisture that falls in the Great Basin of Nevada and Utah stays in the Great Basin.
Eccl 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
But the sun does not go to his place from where he arose. I have seen the sun rise from the south and move to the north, and likewise has the sun set in a similar fashion. I have seen the days grow longer, and then the days grow shorter. I have been to Alaska twice: the first time the sun never set, the second time it never rose.
Eccl 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea;
This too is inaccurate. The Truckee river in northern Nevada begins from Lake Tahoe, and flows into the Great Basin. It does not flow out into the sea. Any moisture that falls in the Great Basin of Nevada and Utah stays in the Great Basin.
This quick reminder will be posted in about every thread here in The Bible Study forum through out the day.. ..have some fun be a bit silly while remembering where and why you are here.
Bible Study
A forum for Bible study discussions.
This is not a debate forum.
Can we please leave our egos outside...
Bible Study
A forum for Bible study discussions.
This is not a debate forum.
Can we please leave our egos outside...
off topic edited by reba
Malachi
Member
Ecclesiastes is clearly not Christian doctrine. Therefore it has an overall message, which is repeated in different ways throughout -- the futility of life without Christ. It is meant to bring sinners to a realization that nothing on earth is of any significance unless it pertains to the salvation of souls and the edification of the saints -- the Kingdom of God.
One could go through it verse by verse, or theme by theme, but it all boils down to this: Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Eccl 12:13,14). We should note that this is the *duty* of man. But it is not the salvation of the sinner. For that we must turn to the New Testament.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
You're stuck at 5 too?
Please tell us why?
The writer of Ecc had never been to Alaska.
The writer of Ecc had never been to the Truckee River.
Are you saying the writer should have known what you do because he was inspired and would necessarily be required to know science and geography and astronomy?
Ecc is a dark and brooding book. It wants us to look upon everything we might enjoy as unenjoyable. As futile. It tells us that nothing in life is worth anything. That nothing is new. Everything is vain and everything is useless.
One poster (I forget who) said that if we stopped here we'd all want to commit suicide. Luckily, it doesn't stop here but forges ahead and gives us the solution for all this futility.
And it's a good book to know and understand because it would spare many of worldly cares and problems.
So if you want to move ahead EZ, please tell us why you're stuck at 5.
W
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GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
FOR Rollo Tamasi and EZRider
Does the following help get past 5?
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
Verse 5
Ecclesiastes 1:6;
These verses are confused by being falsely divided. The first clause of the sixth should be joined to the fifth verse.
"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he ariseth; going to the south, and circulating to the north."
Verse 6
"The wind is continually whirling about, and the wind returneth upon its whirlings."
It is plain, from the clause which I have restored to the fifth verse, that the author refers to the approximations of the sun to the northern and southern tropics, viz., of Cancer and Capricorn.
All the versions agree in applying the first clause of the sixth verse to the sun, and not to the wind. Our version alone has mistaken the meaning. My old MS. Bible is quite correct:
The sunne riisith up, and goth doun, and to his place turnith agein; and there agein riising, goth about bi the south, and then agein to the north.
The author points out two things here:
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
From: Adam Clark's Commentary on the Bible
Abridged by Ralph Earle
Baker Book House
Interestingly, in searching for the year of publication (not found) I came across these words by Adam Clarke in the General Preface:
"At an early age I took for my motto Prov. 18:1 : 'Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.'
Being convinced that the Bible was the Source whence all the prinicples of true wisdom, wherever found in the world, had been derived, my desire to comprehend adequately its great design, and to penetrate the meaning of all its parts, led me to separate myself from every pursuit that did not lead, at least indirectly, to the accomplishment of this end:..."
OR, true wisdom is found only in God (and the bible). Foolish men quarrel against this.
I guess A.C. knew we'd be studying Ecc. some day!
Wondering
p.s. I don't look at the bible as a scientific book and look past verses such as 5.
Does the following help get past 5?
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
Verse 5
Ecclesiastes 1:6;
These verses are confused by being falsely divided. The first clause of the sixth should be joined to the fifth verse.
"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he ariseth; going to the south, and circulating to the north."
Verse 6
"The wind is continually whirling about, and the wind returneth upon its whirlings."
It is plain, from the clause which I have restored to the fifth verse, that the author refers to the approximations of the sun to the northern and southern tropics, viz., of Cancer and Capricorn.
All the versions agree in applying the first clause of the sixth verse to the sun, and not to the wind. Our version alone has mistaken the meaning. My old MS. Bible is quite correct:
The sunne riisith up, and goth doun, and to his place turnith agein; and there agein riising, goth about bi the south, and then agein to the north.
The author points out two things here:
- Day and night, marked by the appearance of the sun above the horizon; proceeding apparently from east to west; where he sinks under the horizon, and appears to be lost during the night.
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
From: Adam Clark's Commentary on the Bible
Abridged by Ralph Earle
Baker Book House
Interestingly, in searching for the year of publication (not found) I came across these words by Adam Clarke in the General Preface:
"At an early age I took for my motto Prov. 18:1 : 'Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.'
Being convinced that the Bible was the Source whence all the prinicples of true wisdom, wherever found in the world, had been derived, my desire to comprehend adequately its great design, and to penetrate the meaning of all its parts, led me to separate myself from every pursuit that did not lead, at least indirectly, to the accomplishment of this end:..."
OR, true wisdom is found only in God (and the bible). Foolish men quarrel against this.
I guess A.C. knew we'd be studying Ecc. some day!
Wondering
p.s. I don't look at the bible as a scientific book and look past verses such as 5.
Chopper
Member
At this point, I think it wise to move on to the next segment of Scriptures. There has been much discussion on V. 5 and some other items that have bogged down this study. Here is our next portion of Ecclesiastes....I will now use the English Standard Version of the Bible (ESV) unless noted from the KJV.
Ecclesiastes 2:1 I said in my heart, "Come now, I will test you with pleasure; enjoy yourself." But behold, this also was vanity.
2:2 I said of laughter, "It is mad," and of pleasure, "What use is it?"
2:3 I searched with my heart how to cheer my body with wine—my heart still guiding me with wisdom—and how to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was good for the children of man to do under heaven during the few days of their life.
2:4 I made great works. I built houses and planted vineyards for myself.
2:5 I made myself gardens and parks, and planted in them all kinds of fruit trees.
2:6 I made myself pools from which to water the forest of growing trees.
2:7 I bought male and female slaves, and had slaves who were born in my house. I had also great possessions of herds and flocks, more than any who had been before me in Jerusalem.
2:8 I also gathered for myself silver and gold and the treasure of kings and provinces. I got singers, both men and women, and many concubines, the delight of the sons of man.
2:9 So I became great and surpassed all who were before me in Jerusalem. Also my wisdom remained with me.
2:10 And whatever my eyes desired I did not keep from them. I kept my heart from no pleasure, for my heart found pleasure in all my toil, and this was my reward for all my toil.
2:11 Then I considered all that my hands had done and the toil I had expended in doing it, and behold, all was vanity and a striving after wind, and there was nothing to be gained under the sun."
In verse 3, " I searched with my heart how to cheer my body" There ya go, I don't know of a person who has never wanted to "cheer their body". Depression sets in when our "flesh" is not pampered in some way. Sad but true.
Lets look at all Solomon's accomplishments and see where he might have gone wrong or perhaps right? Can we compare our lives with Solomon? Is there wisdom here for us not to pursue certain projects?
Ecclesiastes 2:1 I said in my heart, "Come now, I will test you with pleasure; enjoy yourself." But behold, this also was vanity.
2:2 I said of laughter, "It is mad," and of pleasure, "What use is it?"
2:3 I searched with my heart how to cheer my body with wine—my heart still guiding me with wisdom—and how to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was good for the children of man to do under heaven during the few days of their life.
2:4 I made great works. I built houses and planted vineyards for myself.
2:5 I made myself gardens and parks, and planted in them all kinds of fruit trees.
2:6 I made myself pools from which to water the forest of growing trees.
2:7 I bought male and female slaves, and had slaves who were born in my house. I had also great possessions of herds and flocks, more than any who had been before me in Jerusalem.
2:8 I also gathered for myself silver and gold and the treasure of kings and provinces. I got singers, both men and women, and many concubines, the delight of the sons of man.
2:9 So I became great and surpassed all who were before me in Jerusalem. Also my wisdom remained with me.
2:10 And whatever my eyes desired I did not keep from them. I kept my heart from no pleasure, for my heart found pleasure in all my toil, and this was my reward for all my toil.
2:11 Then I considered all that my hands had done and the toil I had expended in doing it, and behold, all was vanity and a striving after wind, and there was nothing to be gained under the sun."
In verse 3, " I searched with my heart how to cheer my body" There ya go, I don't know of a person who has never wanted to "cheer their body". Depression sets in when our "flesh" is not pampered in some way. Sad but true.
Lets look at all Solomon's accomplishments and see where he might have gone wrong or perhaps right? Can we compare our lives with Solomon? Is there wisdom here for us not to pursue certain projects?
Jethro Bodine
Member
He teaches what the correct godly response is to a meaningless, futile world. And teaches what to avoid. That makes it a Christian doctrine. It's consistent with New Testament teaching and instruction about not being worldly.
Obedience is the expected and obligatory thing that God expects from all men. It is indeed the duty of man. It's just that some aren't going to fulfill that duty, while some will (Matthew 25:15-28 NASB). And those who do will do that through the power of the Holy Spirit in salvation.
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