End of the Church Age? From corporate to individualism

[whirlwind]

What I'm seeing is people against joining a church, attempting to convince others to be of the same mind and in essence propagating the very apostasy that is claimed to be happening instead of putting forth the effort to do anything about the problems they profess.
It's like claiming a car is a piece of junk all the while using a sledge hammer on the engine.

I admit that after 30 years of Christianity I am against going to "church" I have not been able to sit in one lately, because I have not found any that stick to the Word only, they all stick to their denominational views above the Word. That is of course the reason they became a denomination in the first place. The Baptists do not agree with the Presbyterians, and the Charismatics do not agree with anybody else, the Catholics think they are correct, because they are the oldest mistake and so it carries on and on.

Talk to a Baptist and they will all tell you the same thing.They will tell you they are correct. Next week go to a Full Gospel and they will tell you why the Baptists are wrong.

So the question would be, which doctrine would suit one, and that is the church to join. I cannot do that. I have studied the Bible and so now I disagree with them all. But the funny thing is , that I have been meeting with a lot of people just like me, who are also in disagreement with all the churches. But these people have not tried to form a new church . They have not started the "We disagree" denomination, but they somehow do not talk about dogma and they seem to care less about a formal "pastor". We meet wherever. We seem to be everywhere. I talk to them via email every week, they come to my house, I go to theirs. We break bread together, pray for each other. There are teachers, pastors, evangelist, prophets and yes apostles (which is of course blasphemy to many, if you say you met a real apostle ! because they are not suppose to be around anymore. ) They are all over the world, but have no committees , no buildings, no salaries. Just Christians . And they strange thing is, they all seem to agree. Just simply agree. God is doing something and the churches are going to hate what He is doing.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the God of the earth. (10) And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

[Cornelius]

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the God of the earth. (10) And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

There is a real spit coming up ahead of us. Also a real old fashioned persecution is coming, and that from the traditional churches. Soon our brothers and sisters in the churches are going to turn on those who left the system.

Mat 10:21 And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child: and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 10:34 Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law:
Mat 10:36 and a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

 

[Cornelius]

I can hear some saying" Ugh, yeah right, this will never happen in this day and age. But the Bible has never been wrong and you will all see this happen in your lifetime and in your country, the US of A.

C

 

[Imagican]

How long do you suppose the church age lasted?

I offered a post shortly after this question but it doesn't seem to have 'taken', (posted).

The 'Church age' WILL last until Christ's return. But we can see by indication and scripture offered that by the time of the Return of Christ, that IF Satan were not THEN defeated, then even THE VERY ELECT would be LOST. Hmmmmm.................... Very Elect. While some take this to mean ALL that profess a belief in Christ, the Bible indicates OTHERWISE.

So, from ALL indications when we take scripture AS A WHOLE, we can CLEARLY see that the 'churches' are rarely, IF EVER, absolute members of THE BODY, or The Church. The book Revelation indicates that there are ONLY a dozen TRUE Bodies of BELIEVERS. Yet there are THOUSANDS of denominations that are ALMOST ALL separate from one another. Hmmmmmmmmmm.........................

So, Rick and Vic, in answer to the question, your reply IS correct to a degree. But the discerning factor is WHICH 'churches' are ACTUAL members of The Body.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[handy]

Mike, could you supply the reference for this statement:

The book Revelation indicates that there are ONLY a dozen TRUE Bodies of BELIEVERS.

I'd like to study this claim in it's context.

 

[Imagican]

What I'm seeing is people against joining a church, attempting to convince others to be of the same mind and in essence propagating the very apostasy that is claimed to be happening instead of putting forth the effort to do anything about the problems they profess.
It's like claiming a car is a piece of junk all the while using a sledge hammer on the engine.

Vic,

I believe you err in your acceptance or understanding of WHAT I offer.

I have YET to encourage ANYONE to 'step OUTSIDE' of The Church. I have simply offered ample warning that NOT ALL that 'claim' to BE 'parts of the Body' ARE INDEED, true parts of the Body of Christ.

How are we to CHANGE anything if we simply accept what is offered without FORCING it to BACK up it's CLAIMS?

We are TOLD to question The spirit of those that would offer us ANYTHING so far as TRUTH is concerned.

We are told that if ANYONE alters a TIT of what was given us in Word and DEED through Christ and His apostles that they would have a 'special PLACE' reserved for them.

We were also told that AT THE TIME of the apostles, MANY false prophets had ALREADY gone out from AMONG THEM. Get it?

What you have heard me 'rant and rave' over are 'those false teachings' that have become SO prevalent AMONG the 'churches' now days. Of those, I WOULD encourage ANYONE who fears for their soul to FLEE. For we have already been TOLD how Christ feels about 'luke-warm' churches and those are members of such. And we have also been told about those churches that will step to Him in the end BRAGGING about the 'wonereous THINGS' that they have 'done in HIS name'. And we all know His reply to THEM as well.

So, while you see a man bent and determined to destroy something that YOU see as being 'righteous', what I see is so LITTLE righteousness being exhibited or TAUGHT that the answer is that The Spirit is far far from them. What you choose to see is a man speaking out AGAINST dignitaries for the sake of discord. What I see are so FEW willing to STAND up to the truth that we have been offered in Word and Deed that it pains my heart to the point that I fear there are practically NONE willing to sacrifice even the LEAST of their pleasure or principles to even SEE the truth.

And Vic, that is NOT the Church or Body formed by our Savior Jesus Christ.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Rick W]

I am perfectly comfortable attending a Baptist church. I prefer non-denominational but Baptist is fine by me.
While in Salt Lake City the Baptists came for their convention. To be brief it was very uplifting to be passing out flyers, shoulder to shoulder so-to-speak, on the streets of a predominantly Mormon town.
Do I agree with all their doctrine? I'm sure they don't agree with all of mine. But the things we did agree upon made it the right thing to do passing out literature and speaking with passers-by in a Mormon town.

I suppose the camaraderie could be attributed to the fact we had a common goal in a town spiritually hostile to the both of us. Together we stood and together we preached the love of Christ.

 

[Cornelius]

Its impossible for a Christian to be outside the church. They ARE the church.

Its possible for a Christian to be outside a denomination.

Not one place in the Bible does it speak of a denomination. The Bible only speaks of the church at so-and-so. One church, meeting at different places.

We do not have that today, yet we hobble on, because its all we know.

 

[Cornelius]

The last denomination I went to, I was called aside and asked if I wanted to join their church. They presented me with some forms to fill in. I said: "I cannot join the church, because I am part of the church"
They looked at me as if I was from the second quadrant of the star system Beetlejuice . They wanted that form signed and I refused.

Interesting thing was, that this building with a tower, was right next to another building with a tower and in the fence is a gate with a chain and a lock. It was locked by the one pastor in fear that HIS flock, might loose their way and meander through the gate into the bigger building with a tower next door.

 

[Rick W]

"They presented me with some forms to fill in."

Now that's weird. At least to me it is since I've never had that experience. I've always thought one joins a church by attending a couple times for a "look see" and if all is good then you keep attending until you get to know the people and the people get to know you. And there you are... a member of a church because you're there and so are they.
Simple yes but it works for me :D

 

[JoJo]

"They presented me with some forms to fill in."

Now that's weird. At least to me it is since I've never had that experience. I've always thought one joins a church by attending a couple times for a "look see" and if all is good then you keep attending until you get to know the people and the people get to know you. And there you are... a member of a church because you're there and so are they.
Simple yes but it works for me :D

Many churches want you to fill out a form so that they have your name and contact information on record. Southern Baptists, in particular, like to do this so they can visit you at home. I once visited a Southern Baptist church, filled out the visitor sheet, and a few days later the pastor came by my house to chat and pray. Another day a lady brought me bread. It was very welcoming.

Oh, and the Independent Baptist church I grew up in...they conducted "membership classes" you had to take before you became an official church member. Only official church members could vote on church issues. In many churches, only official members of a church can receive benevolence assistance.

I call myself Baptist mainly because that is what I grew up with. And I still believe in once saved, always saved. But that doesn't mean I agree with all church practices. In fact, I don't attend a church at all right now.

 

[JoJo]

The last denomination I went to, I was called aside and asked if I wanted to join their church. They presented me with some forms to fill in. I said: "I cannot join the church, because I am part of the church"
They looked at me as if I was from the second quadrant of the star system Beetlejuice . They wanted that form signed and I refused.

LOL Cornelius!

 

[Cornelius]

"They presented me with some forms to fill in."

Now that's weird. At least to me it is since I've never had that experience. I've always thought one joins a church by attending a couple times for a "look see" and if all is good then you keep attending until you get to know the people and the people get to know you. And there you are... a member of a church because you're there and so are they.
Simple yes but it works for me :D

Many churches want you to fill out a form so that they have your name and contact information on record. Southern Baptists, in particular, like to do this so they can visit you at home. I once visited a Southern Baptist church, filled out the visitor sheet, and a few days later the pastor came by my house to chat and pray. Another day a lady brought me bread. It was very welcoming.

Oh, and the Independent Baptist church I grew up in...they conducted "membership classes" you had to take before you became an official church member. Only official church members could vote on church issues. In many churches, only official members of a church can receive benevolence assistance.

I call myself Baptist mainly because that is what I grew up with. And I still believe in once saved, always saved. But that doesn't mean I agree with all church practices. In fact, I don't attend a church at all right now.

Rick, you say that you join a church by looking first. But that is the point I am trying to make. You CANNOT join a church, if you are a true Christian. You ARE ALREADY part of the church. You may join a denomination.

JoJo, you must be able to see that if you were born into the Catholic church, you would most probably have been a Catholic today. Or if you were born a Muslim, a Muslim. Humans are mostly to scared to question that which they are born into. Now the scary thing to think about it : If I were a Muslim and I thought it was the way to be, because all my parents and their parents were Muslims, would that fact ultimately save my eternal soul?

Does my Baptist birth, necessarily mean that I now believe correctly , because I believe what they teach? So we can fill in any denomination or religion into that sentence .

You mentioned once saved always saved. Imagine for one moment that they are wrong on this. And you are following them blindly. You would then obviously be walking in error and this error might have eternal consequences for you. Do you think that it might be important enough to ask the Lord about it, rather than to go with what one denomination preaches ? You can see , from where you are standing, praying to Mary is detrimental to salvation, yet those who are doing it defend it as correct and right, even though you know its wrong. We have to ask ourselves: Am I not also doing the same, by adhering to things taught by MY denomination? Am I not also in danger from some other wrong belief, just as those are that pray to Mary?

C

 

[Cornelius]

Many churches want you to fill out a form so that they have your name and contact information on record. Southern Baptists, in particular, like to do this so they can visit you at home.

LOL not in this case. The pastor of this church is a personal friend of mine, and has been to my home. He wanted me on his "books" for other reasons.

 

[JoJo]

JoJo, you must be able to see that if you were born into the Catholic church, you would most probably have been a Catholic today. Or if you were born a Muslim, a Muslim. Humans are mostly to scared to question that which they are born into. Now the scary thing to think about it : If I were a Muslim and I thought it was the way to be, because all my parents and their parents were Muslims, would that fact ultimately save my eternal soul?

Does my Baptist birth, necessarily mean that I now believe correctly , because I believe what they teach? So we can fill in any denomination or religion into that sentence .

You know, atheists have asked me the same question. I do agree that most people don't want to question what they grew up with. BUT, I firmly believe that whether I was raised in a Baptist or a Muslim or Atheist home, God and His Truth would eventually find me.

You mentioned once saved always saved. Imagine for one moment that they are wrong on this. And you are following them blindly. You would then obviously be walking in error and this error might have eternal consequences for you. Do you think that it might be important enough to ask the Lord about it, rather than to go with what one denomination preaches ? You can see , from where you are standing, praying to Mary is detrimental to salvation, yet those who are doing it defend it as correct and right, even though you know its wrong. We have to ask ourselves: Am I not also doing the same, by adhering to things taught by MY denomination? Am I not also in danger from some other wrong belief, just as those are that pray to Mary?

Cornelius, you must know me enough by now to know that I am still a Truth seeker.

 

[Cornelius]

Yes I know that you do

But remember that a forum is such, that many read this and I have to write for them too ! So many times my posts are aimed at the forum as a whole too .

blessings
C

 

[JoJo]

Understood. :yes

Interestingly, my confusion was in the use of the word "you." Now I understand why it's so easy to misinterpret certain Bible verses that use the word "you" and take it to mean "the reader" when it was meant for someone specific...and vice versa.

 

[Cornelius]

But have you noticed how many people prefer you see the "you" in the Bible as the "not to me" , but "to them" LOL

Humans like to pick and choose what suits us. The verses that are calling for something like "death to self" are those that easily seen as "for them" and not for us . :yes

 

[stranger]

Cornelius wrote:

Rick, you say that you join a church by looking first. But that is the point I am trying to make. You CANNOT jon a church, if you are a true Christian. You ARE ALREADY part of the church. You may join a denomination.

Hello Cornelius,

Leaving the denominations aside I want to ask: But which 'Church' was the first century believer automatically part of? In the NT nearly all the letters to the Churches (assemblies) were addressed to particular locations: eg. Corinth, Ephesius. . . etc.

blessings

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius wrote:

Rick, you say that you join a church by looking first. But that is the point I am trying to make. You CANNOT jon a church, if you are a true Christian. You ARE ALREADY part of the church. You may join a denomination.

Hello Cornelius,

Leaving the denominations aside I want to ask: But which 'Church' was the first century believer automatically part of? In the NT nearly all the letters to the Churches (assemblies) were addressed to particular locations: eg. Corinth, Ephesius. . . etc.

blessings

Its not locations that divided the church, but doctrine.

What you are referring to , is simply the church (called out ones) that gathered in different cities. That did not divide them, they were still ONE.

Today its doctrine that divides and not location.