Ephesians 2:10

[n2thelight]

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."


Can one be a Christian yet not walk in those good works which God before ordained Christians to walk in?

Can one go through their whole life with faith only and not ever do any works, yet still be saved?





(See also Mat 25:32-46)

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Grace is the source, and faith is the means by which we obtain the grace of God. It is through our faith that we believe. Faith is the action that causes us to do what we do, and comes by our acting on our belief. That action we take, because of our belief, is sustained by our confidence in God, that when we do what we are asked to do, He will fulfill His promises to us.
Faith needs a focal point to activate, and Jesus Christ and the Word of God is that focal point. With God's promises, and teachings in our mind, we have the firm foundation to act upon. Faith is not stagnate, it is action. We do not act blindly, but our actions are based on a solid foundation: the Word of God.

The "confidence" we have has no hesitation, for because of God's commitment to us, through His Word, we in turn have that same sure commitment to our "faith" in God. That faith in God then takes us to God's "grace", His unmerited favor, and forgiveness to each of us. Even though we fall short.

Ephesians 2:9 "Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Many people take this verse and say "works will not save you". That is true. It is God's grace that brings about salvation. By yourself, you simply are not able to do anything to earn God's salvation from sin, and it's penalty.

This Ephesians 2 stresses, as Christians, we are fellow servants, and workers in Christ, and that our works will not save us, salvation just doesn't come that way. It is God that gives us all that we have, such as the gift of teaching, or as prayer warriors, or singing, or even laboring and planting seeds of God's word in the minds of others. Even being helpful with the "kind attitude" and a smile to lift others, is a gift. What ever that gift might be, we can't take credit for it, for all the credit and glory goes to the Father, and to His Word, our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you don't belief that, why would you spend any time in His work, or even call yourself a Christian. For, to you, your faith would be in a dead man. So any works you perform are all part of God's overall plan, and what ever gifts and works you do must fit into that plan. You do the works because you are saved, and not to be saved. Get it? Then in performing those works, God rewards His children for being faithful.

As we do our work, it is the Holy Spirit that directs and develops our working gifts that they can be used effectively.

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

There are those who say; "grace is all I need". The warning to us, is to stay clear of them. Their "faith" is dead, as there is no action in their belief, and definitely no confidence in the work or words of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is not pleased with "lazy Christians". He doesn't have much use for their unfruitfulness.

"Workmanship" means God's "handiwork". God made each of us for a purpose, and that purpose is to do good works. This isn't something that happened overnight, but God "before ordained", before you were even conceived, God had plans for your good works to be used in His overall plan.

http://www.theseason.org/ephesians/ephesians2.htm

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Its related to the issue. Before one can think about any good works or otherwise, they must first determine how to be Created unto those good works !

You posted here "...determine how to be Created unto those good works."


So you are saying the Christian was created to do those good works. Meaning one cannot be a Christian/saved without doing those works, meaning those works are necessary to salvation. For one cannot be a Christian/saved without doing those works. WHich goes back to my point, one cannot go through ife without ever doing any owrks and be saved, therefore works are necessary to being saved...faith only is therefore false.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I think you need to read my post again for this is not what I said.

Here is what you posted:

I wonder if it is even possible to have saving faith and not do good works. To say one has saving faith and yet does not do good works would seem to suggest they did not have faith after all. But I also suspect that doing good works is not a prerequisite of being saved but a result of.



You say works are a result of being saved. My question is can the Christian NOT do those works as a result of being saved yet still be saved?
​

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Grace is the source, and faith is the means by which we obtain the grace of God. It is through our faith that we believe. Faith is the action that causes us to do what we do, and comes by our acting on our belief. That action we take, because of our belief, is sustained by our confidence in God, that when we do what we are asked to do, He will fulfill His promises to us.
Faith needs a focal point to activate, and Jesus Christ and the Word of God is that focal point. With God's promises, and teachings in our mind, we have the firm foundation to act upon. Faith is not stagnate, it is action. We do not act blindly, but our actions are based on a solid foundation: the Word of God.

The "confidence" we have has no hesitation, for because of God's commitment to us, through His Word, we in turn have that same sure commitment to our "faith" in God. That faith in God then takes us to God's "grace", His unmerited favor, and forgiveness to each of us. Even though we fall short.

Ephesians 2:9 "Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Many people take this verse and say "works will not save you". That is true. It is God's grace that brings about salvation. By yourself, you simply are not able to do anything to earn God's salvation from sin, and it's penalty.

This Ephesians 2 stresses, as Christians, we are fellow servants, and workers in Christ, and that our works will not save us, salvation just doesn't come that way. It is God that gives us all that we have, such as the gift of teaching, or as prayer warriors, or singing, or even laboring and planting seeds of God's word in the minds of others. Even being helpful with the "kind attitude" and a smile to lift others, is a gift. What ever that gift might be, we can't take credit for it, for all the credit and glory goes to the Father, and to His Word, our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you don't belief that, why would you spend any time in His work, or even call yourself a Christian. For, to you, your faith would be in a dead man. So any works you perform are all part of God's overall plan, and what ever gifts and works you do must fit into that plan. You do the works because you are saved, and not to be saved. Get it? Then in performing those works, God rewards His children for being faithful.

As we do our work, it is the Holy Spirit that directs and develops our working gifts that they can be used effectively.

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

There are those who say; "grace is all I need". The warning to us, is to stay clear of them. Their "faith" is dead, as there is no action in their belief, and definitely no confidence in the work or words of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is not pleased with "lazy Christians". He doesn't have much use for their unfruitfulness.

"Workmanship" means God's "handiwork". God made each of us for a purpose, and that purpose is to do good works. This isn't something that happened overnight, but God "before ordained", before you were even conceived, God had plans for your good works to be used in His overall plan.

http://www.theseason.org/ephesians/ephesians2.htm

Would you agree with me then that one is not a Christian if he does NOT do those preordained good works of Eph 2:10? That being the case then one must do those works to be a Christian which means works are necessary to salvation?

 

[WIP]

Here is what you posted:

I wonder if it is even possible to have saving faith and not do good works. To say one has saving faith and yet does not do good works would seem to suggest they did not have faith after all. But I also suspect that doing good works is not a prerequisite of being saved but a result of.



You say works are a result of being saved. My question is can the Christian NOT do those works as a result of being saved yet still be saved?
​

Oh, I follow you now.

Look again at my first comment in the part you quoted. I'm not sure it is possible to do what you are asking. In other words, I think we are on the same page.

If someone has saving faith then I cannot understand how they could possibly not do good works. As I understand James, if I claim to have faith and don't do good works, my faith is dead. In other words, I really don't have the faith I claim to have.

I can do good works even if I'm not saved but doing good works will not save me. If I am saved, I will do the good works as I have taken off the old self and put on the new.

This brings me to another point. Can one be saved and not know it?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Oh, I follow you now.

Look again at my first comment in the part you quoted. I'm not sure it is possible to do what you are asking. In other words, I think we are on the same page.

If someone has saving faith then I cannot understand how they could possibly not do good works. As I understand James, if I claim to have faith and don't do good works, my faith is dead. In other words, I really don't have the faith I claim to have.

I can do good works even if I'm not saved but doing good works will not save me. If I am saved, I will do the good works as I have taken off the old self and put on the new.

This brings me to another point. Can one be saved and not know it?

My point is this; those that believe in 'faith only' do not think one has to do any works BEFORE one is saved but one does works AFTER he is saved. So I am concentrating on those AFTER salvation works. Are those AFTER salvation works as the Christian is to do per Eph 2:10 necessary to salvation or can the Christian not do those good works of Eph 2:10 yet still be saved.


Those that believe in faith only will not admit that the Christian must do those good works of Eph 2:10 or else be lost for they will then make salvation conditional upon doing those good works.


That leaves those that believe in faith only having to say one does not have to do any works AFTER he is saved. So faith only then would have no works BEFORE or AFTER salvation, that is, it has one going through life doing NO WORKS AT ALL yet can still be saved. (Which is not possible)


I am just trying to see if I can get one who belives in faith only to admit that those AFTER salvation works are necessary for the Christian to remain saved.


A more simple approach maybe this; can one be a Christian yet not do those good works that God "before ordained" the Christian should walk in?


I say 'no' which means for one to be a Christian and be saved and remain saved is conditional upon doing those good works.

If those that believe in faith only answer "yes" that one can be a Christian and NOT do those good works, then they are trying to undo or thwart what God has "before ordained" which they cannot do.






You asked "Can one be saved and not know it?'

I say "no" for one cannot just ignorantly stumble into salvation. "But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6. One must know (believe) and one must know he is actively coming to God, seeking God and this cannot be done unknowingly or by random chance.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am just trying to see if I can get one who belives in faith only to admit that those AFTER salvation works are necessary for the Christian to remain saved.

The continuation of the FAITH that produces works is necessary to remain saved.

A more simple approach maybe this; can one be a Christian yet not do those good works that God "before ordained" the Christian should walk in?


I say 'no' which means for one to be a Christian and be saved and remain saved is conditional upon doing those good works.

To remain saved is conditional on the continued FAITH that produces those good works.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My point is this; those that believe in 'faith only' do not think one has to do any works BEFORE one is saved but one does works AFTER he is saved. So I am concentrating on those AFTER salvation works. Are those AFTER salvation works as the Christian is to do per Eph 2:10 necessary to salvation or can the Christian not do those good works of Eph 2:10 yet still be saved.

What is the time table for doing those good works so a person can be saved? Six minutes after salvation? Six hours? Six days? Six years?

When you start looking at the works of faith in such a legalistic way that is where you get in trouble.

Works are a measure of the grace of God you have received, not the condition upon which grace is given. That would nullify the very definition of grace, that definition being unmerited favor. Think about it. Grace that is no longer unmerited ceases to be grace.

 

[savedbygrace57]

eb

So you are saying the Christian was created to do those good works

Not I, but the scripture points that out ! Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The continuation of the FAITH that produces works is necessary to remain saved.




To remain saved is conditional on the continued FAITH that produces those good works.

Can a Christian have a faith that does NOT produce those good works?


If you answer "no" then you are saying a saving faith must include good works making salvation conditional upon those works as much as salvation is conditional upon faith.


If you answer "yes" then you are saying you can undo, change or stop the good works God has 'before ordained' the Christian should walk in.

 

[Butch5]

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."


Can one be a Christian yet not walk in those good works which God before ordained Christians to walk in?

Can one go through their whole life with faith only and not ever do any works, yet still be saved?





(See also Mat 25:32-46)

If by faith only you mean belief, the answer is no.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

What is the time table for doing those good works so a person can be saved? Six minutes after salvation? Six hours? Six days? Six years?

When you start looking at the works of faith in such a legalistic way that is where you get in trouble.

Works are a measure of the grace of God you have received, not the condition upon which grace is given. That would nullify the very definition of grace, that definition being unmerited favor. Think about it. Grace that is no longer unmerited ceases to be grace.

One should start doing those good works as soon as possible.

It seems that you are suggesting a Christian can NEVER do those good works yet still be saved. It this your position?

Mt 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."


In the context coming before Mt 25:46, what distinguishes "these" from the "righteous"?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

If by faith only you mean belief, the answer is no.

So you agree that salvation is conditional upon works being done?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

eb



Not I, but the scripture points that out ! Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So one cannot be a Christian without doing those good works, meaning being a Christian is conditional upon doing those works. There is no such thing as a Christian who does not do those good works.

 

[Butch5]

So you agree that salvation is conditional upon works being done?

Yes, one's ultimate salvation at the end. Initially, coming to Christ does not require works.

 

[farouk]

I don't agree that works earn favor with God to stay saved.

But evidence of the person being saved through faith in Christ must be seen. As James says, faith without works is dead.

 

[Webb]

Which raises the question: is baptism a work of human merit or a work of God?

 

[Butch5]

Which raises the question: is baptism a work of human merit or a work of God?

Both, man has a part and God has part.

 

[farouk]

Baptism is a symbol for those who already believe. In Acts we read that the Philippians jailer and all his house believed. Thus they were baptised. (They weren't baptised in order to be able to believe.)

 

[Butch5]

Baptism is a symbol for those who already believe. In Acts we read that the Philippians jailer and all his house believed. Thus they were baptised. (They weren't baptised in order to be able to believe.)

The question is not to believe but to saved. I agree that no one needs to be baptized to believe. The Philippian Jailor and his house weren't baptized to believe, they were baptized to be saved.