Erroneous additons to the Word of God !

[glorydaz]

The elder shall serve the younger < Why are there elders in the church ?

There are elders in the church so they can put a stop to people who claim the Word has been adulterated by man and who think they can make up their own doctrine to lead the younger "brethern" away from the Truth. Indeed, that is a service to us all.

 

[glorydaz]

There are three different James boys in the gospels.

James the brother of John

James the brother of Joses Bingo...the brothers of Jesus.
James the brother of the apostle Jude

Here is an example of how the translators interchanged these two words - "brethren" and "brother" within the translation >

Matthew 13:55 shows that James here is the brethren, along with Joses and Simon and Judas

Now watch this Matthew 13:55 "Is this not this the carpenter's son ? is not his mother called Mary ? and his brethren, James, and Joses and Simon, and Judas ? < KJV

I am still using the KJV here -- Watch closely >

Mark 6:3 - "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses and of Juda and Simon ? and are not his sisters here with us ?" Mark is calling Jesus the carpenter (which he was). "Son of Mary"....Brother of James and Joses and Simon and Judas.

Not only do different translations , translate these words in the way they want to translate them. But , even in the KJV the two words "brethren" and "brother" are used inter changeable
Brethern and brother are interchangeable.
IN Christ - MM

Joseph was a carpenter. The sons worked in their father's trade...a very common practice.
He spoke of the "narrow gate", the foundation built on a rock...and many other examples that show that he knew the trade.

The scripture says exactly what it means...you just need to put away your doubts because they are leading you down false trails.

 

[Mysteryman]

glorydaz

The name "Joses" is not the name "Jesus" !

Matthew 27:56 shows us that this Mary was the mother of James and Joses (John) and she was married to Zebedee

The sons of Zebedee are James and John. The word "Joses" is >> John << Matthew 10:2 & Mark 1:19 & Mark 10:35

Luke 5:10 - "And so also was James, and John, the sons of Zebedee, which were "partners" with Simon. " < These were disciples of Jesus. Simon was a partner << ! They were "brethren"

Here again the translators , translated the name John into the name Joses !

IN Christ - MM

 

[nadab]

Jesus had at least four fleshly brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas, and at least 2 fleshly sisters.(Matt 13:55, 56; see online interlinear Scripture4all ) The Greek word for "brothers" is a·del·phos? and the Greek word for "cousin" is a·ne·psi·os´.(Col 4:10)

At Matthew 12:46, it says that "while (Jesus) was yet speaking to the crowds, look! his mother and brothers (a·del·phos? ) took up a position outside seeking to speak to him." Mark writes: "Now his mother and his brothers (a·del·phos? ) came, and, as they were standing on the outside, they sent in to him to call him."(Mark 3:31) Luke records: "Now his mother and brothers (a·del·phos? ) came toward him, but they were unable to get to him because of the crowd. However, it was reported to him: “Your mother and your brothers (a·del·phos? )are standing outside wanting to see you.â€(Luke 8:19, 20)

The "Mary" spoken of at Matthew 13 is clearly the wife of Joseph, who was a carpenter (Matt 13:55), not a fisherman.(Matt 4:21) The Simon mentioned at Luke 5:10, was "Simon Peter", who was also a fisherman, for Matthew 4:18 says: "Walking alongside the sea of Gal´i·lee he saw two brothers, Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother, letting down a fishing net into the sea, for they were fishers."

In addition, at Luke 5:5, Simon says to Jesus: "Instructor, for a whole night we toiled and took nothing, but at your bidding I will lower the nets.†Thus, this Simon is Peter, calling Jesus his "instructor", with verse 8 saying "Seeing this, Simon Peter fell down at the knees of Jesus, saying: “Depart from me, because I am a sinful man, Lord.†James and John were "sharers", or "partners" with Simon Peter in the fishing business, not Simon, the brother of Jesus.

 

[Mysteryman]

To show you that the translators did not stay consistent with their translating. We find this record in Mark 15:40 where the name "Simon" is now written - "Salome"

Mark 15:40 should have been translated this way staying within consistency .

Mark 15:40 - ""and Mary the mother of James the less and of John , and Simon"

One needs to pick up on these inconsistencies within our translations !

IN Christ - MM

 

[Sinthesis]

What? I know what you said. There is no principle. There is absolutely no support for your argument that "If he would have had a younger brother, Jesus would have had to serve him in a similar manner that Aaron served Moses."

Yep! :biglaugh

• Gen 46:19 - The sons of Rachel Jacob's wife; Joseph, and Benjamin.

So it is not really a principle, is it? Or else Joseph would have had to serve Benjamin.

Joseph is the eleventh son of Jacob, Benjamin is the youngest son of Jacob.

Are there any searchers of the scriptures to see if those things are so or not type people in here ?

Joseph is the first son of Rachel, not Jacob

Is not Joseph the elder brother of Benjamin? Remember your unchanging principle?

There are certain priciples within the Word that never change. For instance, the first shall be last and the last first. Another principle within the Word of God, is the elder shall serve the younger.

Clearly you are confused, yet too stiff-necked to admit it.

For anyone interested in the word adelphos/adelphoi:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/adelphos.html

 

[glorydaz]

glorydaz

The name "Joses" is not the name "Jesus" !

Matthew 27:56 shows us that this Mary was the mother of James and Joses (John) and she was married to Zebedee

The sons of Zebedee are James and John. The word "Joses" is >> John << Matthew 10:2 & Mark 1:19 & Mark 10:35

Luke 5:10 - "And so also was James, and John, the sons of Zebedee, which were "partners" with Simon. " < These were disciples of Jesus. Simon was a partner << ! They were "brethren"

Here again the translators , translated the name John into the name Joses !

IN Christ - MM

I didn't say it was Jesus.

I guess you don't think some people had the same name back in the old days. :biglaugh

You're getting them all mixed up and it's really quite simple......

 

[Sinthesis]

To show you that the translators did not stay consistent with their translating. We find this record in Mark 15:40 where the name "Simon" is now written - "Salome"

Mark 15:40 should have been translated this way staying within consistency .

Mark 15:40 - ""and Mary the mother of James the less and of John , and Simon"

One needs to pick up on these inconsistencies within our translations !

IN Christ - MM

Oh Stop! You're killing me. :biglaugh :biglol :rolling

• Mar 15:40 - There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Strong's G4539 - Sal?m? is a proper feminine noun! This means Salome is one of the "women looking on afar off"! Specifically, she is the wife of Zebedee and mother of the apostles James and John.

 

[glorydaz]

To show you that the translators did not stay consistent with their translating. We find this record in Mark 15:40 where the name "Simon" is now written - "Salome"

Mark 15:40 should have been translated this way staying within consistency .

Mark 15:40 - ""and Mary the mother of James the less and of John , and Simon"

One needs to pick up on these inconsistencies within our translations !

IN Christ - MM

You're mixed up again. Salome is a woman's name...probably the wife of Zebedee.

 

[glorydaz]

To show you that the translators did not stay consistent with their translating. We find this record in Mark 15:40 where the name "Simon" is now written - "Salome"

Mark 15:40 should have been translated this way staying within consistency .

Mark 15:40 - ""and Mary the mother of James the less and of John , and Simon"

One needs to pick up on these inconsistencies within our translations !

IN Christ - MM

Oh Stop! You're killing me. :biglaugh :biglol :rolling

• Mar 15:40 - There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Strong's G4539 - Sal?m? is a proper feminine noun! This means Salome is one of the "women looking on afar off"! Specifically, she is the wife of Zebedee and mother of the apostles James and John.

LOL That' was a quick catch, wasn't it? :yes

 

[Vic C.]

I'm surprised this thread is still alive. But I do see some of you still have a penchant for apologetics. :amen

 

[glorydaz]

I'm surprised this thread is still alive. But I do see some of you still have a penchant for apologetics. :amen

It's fun...kinda like a game of Bible Trivia.

Not that anything about the Bible is trivial, but you know what I mean.

 

[Sinthesis]

I'm surprised this thread is still alive. But I do see some of you still have a penchant for apologetics. :amen

It's fun...kinda like a game of Bible Trivia.

Not that anything about the Bible is trivial, but you know what I mean.

Some of it is kinda' difficult. I'm still trying to write down the answer to the OP concerning Mat 27:52-53. I have it figured outin my noggin', but trying to explain the answer coherently is difficult.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm surprised this thread is still alive. But I do see some of you still have a penchant for apologetics. :amen

It's fun...kinda like a game of Bible Trivia.

Not that anything about the Bible is trivial, but you know what I mean.

Some of it is kinda' difficult. I'm still trying to write down the answer to the OP concerning Mat 27:52-53. I have it figured outin my noggin', but trying to explain the answer coherently is difficult.

LOL...I know. I like what John MacArthur says...

What do we see at the cross? The wrath of God is depicted in supernatural darkness. The holiness of God is seen when He turned from Christ, who had become sin. The grace and mercy of God is depicted in Christ's voluntary act of self-sacrifice to redeem unworthy men. The curtain in the Temple is ripped from top to bottom as God opens the way of access to Himself. The shaking of the earth reminds us that the promised new earth and heaven will come. Jesus will reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and we'll be there to reign with Him. And the resurrection of the saints at the death of Christ guarantees the resurrection of all who believe in Him. That is God's supernatural testimony of the meaning of His Son's death.

 

[Mysteryman]

To show you that the translators did not stay consistent with their translating. We find this record in Mark 15:40 where the name "Simon" is now written - "Salome"

Mark 15:40 should have been translated this way staying within consistency .

Mark 15:40 - ""and Mary the mother of James the less and of John , and Simon"

One needs to pick up on these inconsistencies within our translations !

IN Christ - MM

Oh Stop! You're killing me. :biglaugh :biglol :rolling

• Mar 15:40 - There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Strong's G4539 - Sal?m? is a proper feminine noun! This means Salome is one of the "women looking on afar off"! Specifically, she is the wife of Zebedee and mother of the apostles James and John.

You are correct. I went back and checked my notes.

Mary here, is the mother of James and Joses , and Salome, who is the wife of Zebedee, and Zebedee is the father of James and John. This Mary, the mother of James and Joses , and Salome is married to Cleophas. So James and Joses are the uncles of James and John. So this Mary, who is married to Cleophas is the grandmother of James and John, the two sons of their daughter Salome, who is the wife of Zebedee.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Sinthesis]

LOL...I know. I like what John MacArthur says...

What do we see at the cross? The wrath of God is depicted in supernatural darkness. The holiness of God is seen when He turned from Christ, who had become sin. The grace and mercy of God is depicted in Christ's voluntary act of self-sacrifice to redeem unworthy men. The curtain in the Temple is ripped from top to bottom as God opens the way of access to Himself. The shaking of the earth reminds us that the promised new earth and heaven will come. Jesus will reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and we'll be there to reign with Him. And the resurrection of the saints at the death of Christ guarantees the resurrection of all who believe in Him. That is God's supernatural testimony of the meaning of His Son's death.

I like John MacArthur, but sometimes I feel he drifts too much to the 'Hollywood supernatural'.

• Mat 27:51 - And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom [Literal or figurative? Are you offended if it was not literal? I think we all understand the figurative significance of a 'torn temple vail', so does it really matter if it was not literally split.] ; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

So, I'm working on a less 'Hollywood supernatural' interpretation; but still supernatural in that there was a literal earthquake, but a figurative fulfilling of Eze 37:13 that doesn't rely on biblical 'zombies'.

Think of Matthew 17:10-13. It was human nature as exhibited by the disciples to expect some kind of clearly supernatural fire-calling manifestation of Elijah to fulfill prophesy. Yet the truth of the fulfillment as explained by Jesus was in the seemingly mundane reality of John-the-Baptist. Supernatural? Yes, just not 'Hollywood supernatural'. :type

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Sinthesis: "Is not Joseph the elder brother of Benjamin? Remember your unchanging principle?"

Hi

Yes and no. The elder half brother of Benjamin is - Reuben

Jacob is the second son of Isaac , and Reuben is the first son of Jacob of Leah, and Jacob's youngest son is Benjamin.

Jacob loved Rachel and married Rachel as well, and her first born is Joseph. So Joseph was the eldest full brother of Benjamin.

The principle does not change, "the eldest shall serve the younger"

Joseph was given into slavery by his brothers. Joseph became the right hand man in power to Pharoah. There was a famine in those days. And because God was working in/with Joseph , Joseph became the deliverer of Israel. Benjamin was found with a cup. Which was put there by Joseph. In Genesis chapter 45 Joseph reveals himself.

So Joseph the eldest of Benjamin of Rachel, did serve the youngest. < The principle never changes.

Rueben served the younger in a different way - The birthright was given to Jospeh - I Chronicles 5:1

Joseph was the "younger" in this case.

The principle is - "the elder shall serve the younger, not the youngest. < Romans 9:12

This principle does not change throughout the Word of God.

IN Christ - MM

 

[Free]

The principle is - "the elder shall serve the younger, not the youngest. < Romans 9:12

This principle does not change throughout the Word of God.

And yet you have not even remotely proven this to be the case. I cannot help but notice that you fail to address many strong points the show your positions to be false.

First, you argue to some supposed erroneous additions to the Bible and most, if not all, you have failed to substantiate. One of those you argued to was that Jesus didn't have literal brothers. However, it was shown that a plain reading of a couple of texts shows that Jesus had brothers, but you didn't address the arguments there. Then, in your denying that, you put forward this supposed biblical principal that the "elder will always serve the younger" so Jesus couldn't have had a younger brother or he would have had to serve him.

In so arguing, you even said: "The elder shall serve the younger < Why are there elders in the church ?" To which I replied with:

1 Tim 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. (ESV)

1 Pe 5:1-5, 1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: 2 shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight,not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you;not for shameful gain, but eagerly; 3 not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." (ESV)

But you didn't even address that and tried to show another supposed inconsistency in translation.

It is very telling that you have ignored some pretty strong arguments against your position and just keep on going like you have proved something to be true.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Free

The elders in the church "do" serve the younger ! As in service. Just like those who eat the meat of the Word, are to help the babes in the Word who only drink the milk of the Word. < The principle never changes.

If you can not see this, I am not sure that you will. But I pray that you will.

 

[Mysteryman]

I'm surprised this thread is still alive. But I do see some of you still have a penchant for apologetics. :amen

It's fun...kinda like a game of Bible Trivia.

Not that anything about the Bible is trivial, but you know what I mean.

Some of it is kinda' difficult. I'm still trying to write down the answer to the OP concerning Mat 27:52-53. I have it figured outin my noggin', but trying to explain the answer coherently is difficult.

Hi

It is not difficult at all. The Word of God is a mirror image of itself. Thus, everything within the Word of God is established. Matthew 27:52 & 53 is not established anywhere within scripture, thus it was added by man .

Just like the word Immanuel in the gospel of Matthew. There is mentioned in Isa. chapters 7 & 8 of the Immanuel in the OT.

IF the graves opened up as these two verses allude too. Then we must find this occurance somewhere else within scirpture confirming it. I , for one, have not found any reference(s) substanctiating that these two verses of having any validity of the claims that are made within these two verses.