Essential vs Nonessential

[JLB]

The works Scripture speaks of will follow, otherwise Christ is not in us! We must also differentiate that it's not the works that saves us but can show we're saved, and this is how God glorified (Mat 5:16). It must be shown that He only is credited for this, hence His "working" this in us!

Ok maybe you didn't read or understand what I just posted.

Here it is again

• To me this is us, by the Spirit, by His divine power and grace, which He has provided us through Christ, working out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

Can we at least agree that it is Christ who works in us, but we ourselves must take up our cross daily, to crucify the flesh, and to diligently:

• add to your faith virtue
• to virtue knowledge
  
• to knowledge self-control
  
• to self-control perseverance
  
• to perseverance godliness
  
• to godliness brotherly kindness
  
• and to brotherly kindness love

add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 2 Peter 1:5-7


It doesn't say "He" will add to our faith these things, but we ourselves are required to do these things, by His grace, by His power.

The same principle is seen in all the scriptures that I posted.

He has given us the divine grace and power to accomplish His will in the following areas:

• Cleaning ourself from all filthiness of flesh and spirit.
• Putting to death the deeds of the flesh
• Practicing righteousness
• Walking in the truth
• Working out or own salvation
• Walking according to the Spirit
• By patient continuance in doing good

All these things and more, are our responsibility to either do or not do.


There are two ways for the born again, Spirit filled Christian to live their life on earth:

1. According to the Spirit
2. According to the flesh

The bible is clear, it is our responsibility to walk according to the Spirit and bring forth the fruit of the Spirit.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:16-26

If we are not walking according to the Spirit and bring forth the fruit of the Spirit, then we are walking according to the flesh, and practicing the works of the flesh.

It's one of the other.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Which has nothing to do with the fully accomplished work of God in and through Jesus Christ - toward our redemption, atonement, eternal salvation,

The fully accomplished work is Christ Jesus and the cross, and His resurrection from the dead.

When a person believes, and is born again, the process of transformation begins, which requires us to co-operate in this process.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:1-2


Again, this is our responsibility to accomplish these these, by His divine power and grace working in us:

• I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice

God doesn't make you present your body as a living sacrifice, it is your responsibility to do.

• do not be conformed to this world

God doesn't make you to "not be conformed to the world", it is our responsibility to do this, by His grace.

The same principle is seen in all the scriptures that I posted.

He has given us the divine grace and power to accomplish His will in the following areas:

• Cleaning ourself from all filthiness of flesh and spirit.
• Putting to death the deeds of the flesh
• Practicing righteousness
• Walking in the truth
• Working out or own salvation
• Walking according to the Spirit
• By patient continuance in doing good

All these things and more, are our responsibility to either do or not do.


There are two ways for the born again, Spirit filled Christian to live their life on earth:

1. According to the Spirit
2. According to the flesh

The bible is clear, it is our responsibility to walk according to the Spirit and bring forth the fruit of the Spirit.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:16-26
Click to expand...



If we are not walking according to the Spirit and bring forth the fruit of the Spirit, then we are walking according to the flesh, and practicing the works of the flesh.

It's one of the other.

Our "working out" (Philipians 2:12) does not equate to our 'working for' or our 'working towards' because we are not the author of our salvation in Christ; nor do we sustain our state of being in Christ, as co-saviors with Him working to keep ourselves saved; neither are we the One who finishes our eternal salvation.

nor do we sustain our state of being in Christ, as co-saviors with Him working to keep ourselves saved;

Let's read and review what the scripture actual says, with the context, to see how what the scripture teaches us, with what you are trying to teach us.


12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. Philippians 2:12-16


There is the key word which refutes your theory about salvation.

Salvation comes from obedience: Obeying the Gospel; Obeying Jesus.


Example -

Jesus tells us to "Do not lie". When we lie to our neighbor, we are not loving them or God.

If we disobey this command, and stubbornly refuse to turn away from lying then the result is clearly seen:

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

God has given us the power and grace to overcome the sinful works of the flesh, one of which is lying, but we must ourselves, by the Spirit put to death, the deeds of the flesh.


JLB

 

[netchaplain]

All these things and more, are our responsibility to either do or not do.

I do not see them as responsibilities to do but desires to do, given from Him.

There are two ways for the born again, Spirit filled Christian to live their life on earth:

1. According to the Spirit
2. According to the flesh

One who is born again lives by the Spirit. One who is not born again lives by the sinful nature (flesh). This is how we can determine what we are.

 

[JLB]

I do not see them as responsibilities to do but desires to do, given from Him.

Yes, as I said God works in His, to both deisre as well as do, His will.

What I am saying it is up to us to either do it or not do it.

• Those who obey the truth, will receive eternal life.
• Those who do not obey the truth will receive His wrath.

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation

God loves us dearly, and is for us.

His mercy is new every morning, and His grace is sufficient for us.


However, He is not going to make you do what He ask's you to do.

He will work with you, and help you, and forgive you and restore you, but you have the choice to make concerning either obeying Him or not.

One who is born again lives by the Spirit. One who is not born again lives by the sinful nature (flesh). This is how we can determine what we are.

Couldn't be further from the truth.

Each born again person has to make the choice to live according to the flesh, or live according to the Spirit of God within us.

This is a process, and must be accomplished through maturity and discipline.

God does not expect baby Christians to accomplish this right away, but gives us time to mature and grow.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:12-14

• do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Only a born again Spirit baptized Christian can obey this, not an unbeliever.

• do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Only a born again Spirit baptized Christian can obey this, not an unbeliever.



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Christians do not "die"

Each born again person has to make the choice to live according to the flesh, or live according to the Spirit of God within us.

The choice is already made and settled for one born again to please God, because He makes it so (Phil 2:13). We are at the point of repeating ourselves and probably done with this issue. Enjoying our time in the Word though!

 

[netchaplain]

Romans 8 differentiates between those born again and those unsaved. The believer will not choose to live after the sinful nature, nor can unbelievers live after the Spirit:

5. "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." Neither can do both!

6. "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Christians no longer (for OSAS believers) desire to live after the carnal mind, though we will be carnal at times in our learning, which never ceases. This is not the same as Paul telling the Corinthians (1 Co 3:1, 3) they were being carnal, because they were just learning.

 

[JLB]

Christians do not "die"

The choice is already made and settled for one born again to please God, because He makes it so (Phil 2:13). We are at the point of repeating ourselves and probably done with this issue. Enjoying our time in the Word though!

Okay. Brother just keep ignoring the scriptures I posted, I'm sure that will change what they say.

God bless.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Romans 8 differentiates between those born again and those unsaved. The believer will not choose to live after the sinful nature, nor can unbelievers live after the Spirit:

5. "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." Neither can do both!

6. "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Christians no longer (for OSAS believers) desire to live after the carnal mind, though we will be carnal at times in our learning, which never ceases. This is not the same as Paul telling the Corinthians (1 Co 3:1, 3) they were being carnal, because they were just learning.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Only Christian's who walk according to the Spirit, are unconcerned.

Not so with Christian's who walk according to the flesh, and practice the deeds of the flesh.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Christian's who live immoral lives and practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.


You can keep ignoring these words of scripture, but it won't change a thing.

Do you understand what he phrase
"Will not inherit the kingdom of God" means?


JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Okay. Brother just keep ignoring the scriptures I posted, I'm sure that will change what they say.

God bless.


JLB

Not ignoring, just believe different on them.

Blessings!

 

[Gregg T]

The fully accomplished work is Christ Jesus and the cross, and His resurrection from the dead.

When a person believes, and is born again, the process of transformation begins, which requires us to co-operate in this process.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:1-2


Again, this is our responsibility to accomplish these these, by His divine power and grace working in us:

• I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice

God doesn't make you present your body as a living sacrifice, it is your responsibility to do.

• do not be conformed to this world

God doesn't make you to "not be conformed to the world", it is our responsibility to do this, by His grace.

The same principle is seen in all the scriptures that I posted.

He has given us the divine grace and power to accomplish His will in the following areas:

• Cleaning ourself from all filthiness of flesh and spirit.
• Putting to death the deeds of the flesh
• Practicing righteousness
• Walking in the truth
• Working out or own salvation
• Walking according to the Spirit
• By patient continuance in doing good

All these things and more, are our responsibility to either do or not do.


There are two ways for the born again, Spirit filled Christian to live their life on earth:

1. According to the Spirit
2. According to the flesh

The bible is clear, it is our responsibility to walk according to the Spirit and bring forth the fruit of the Spirit.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:16-26
Click to expand...



If we are not walking according to the Spirit and bring forth the fruit of the Spirit, then we are walking according to the flesh, and practicing the works of the flesh.

It's one of the other.






Let's read and review what the scripture actual says, with the context, to see how what the scripture teaches us, with what you are trying to teach us.


12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. Philippians 2:12-16


There is the key word which refutes your theory about salvation.

Salvation comes from obedience: Obeying the Gospel; Obeying Jesus.


Example -

Jesus tells us to "Do not lie". When we lie to our neighbor, we are not loving them or God.

If we disobey this command, and stubbornly refuse to turn away from lying then the result is clearly seen:

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

God has given us the power and grace to overcome the sinful works of the flesh, one of which is lying, but we must ourselves, by the Spirit put to death, the deeds of the flesh.


JLB

Rather, salvation has come to the one who believed into Christ. Jesus sustains our salvation afterwards amd forever.

1Jn 5:1 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated {perfect passive indicative} from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.

1Jn 5:11-13 "And this is the witness: that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in His Son. The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life. I wrote these things to you, the ones believing in the name of the Son of God, that you may know {perfect active indicative} that you have everlasting life, and that you may believe in the name of the Son of God."

JLB, the perfect tense in those verses indicates that the action was completed in full in the past, where the result of that action continues. An individual who has believed into Christ was at that time saved, completely, in full, the action was completed; however, the result continues. Salvation in Christ is realized and completed in full at the time someone believes into Him. Once having began, the life we have in Christ is eternal, everlasting, into the ages, forever, never ending, and . . . the one having believed into Christ will in no case, not for any reason whatsoever, in no wise will ever perish. Everlasting means . . . everlasting, no matter if you continue to neglect these words.

Moreover, it is God's will that His children should comtinue to know that we, those of us having believed into Christ, have everlasting life.

Your works based and co-savior salvation is not Scriptural.

This is who we are in Christ by the grace of God -
Eph 2:8 "For by grace you are saved {perfect passive participle}, through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God;"
- one having been saved through faith, a past action completed in full, where the result continues.

 

[gr8grace3]

Rather, salvation has come to the one who believed into Christ. Jesus sustains our salvation afterwards amd forever.

1Jn 5:1 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated {perfect passive indicative} from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.

1Jn 5:11-13 "And this is the witness: that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in His Son. The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life. I wrote these things to you, the ones believing in the name of the Son of God, that you may know {perfect active indicative} that you have everlasting life, and that you may believe in the name of the Son of God."

JLB, the perfect tense in those verses indicates that the action was completed in full in the past, where the result of that action continues. An individual who has believed into Christ was at that time saved, completely, in full, the action was completed; however, the result continues. Salvation in Christ is realized and completed in full at the time someone believes into Him. Once having began, the life we have in Christ is eternal, everlasting, into the ages, forever, never ending, and . . . the one having believed into Christ will in no case, not for any reason whatsoever, in no wise will ever perish. Everlasting means . . . everlasting, no matter if you continue to neglect these words.

Moreover, it is God's will that His children should comtinue to know that we, those of us having believed into Christ, have everlasting life.

Your works based and co-savior salvation is not Scriptural.

This is who we are in Christ by the grace of God -
Eph 2:8 "For by grace you are saved {perfect passive participle}, through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God;"
- one having been saved through faith, a past action completed in full, where the result continues.

 

[atpollard]

Rather, salvation has come to the one who believed into Christ. Jesus sustains our salvation afterwards amd forever.

1Jn 5:1 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated {perfect passive indicative} from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.

1Jn 5:11-13 "And this is the witness: that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in His Son. The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life. I wrote these things to you, the ones believing in the name of the Son of God, that you may know {perfect active indicative} that you have everlasting life, and that you may believe in the name of the Son of God."

JLB, the perfect tense in those verses indicates that the action was completed in full in the past, where the result of that action continues. An individual who has believed into Christ was at that time saved, completely, in full, the action was completed; however, the result continues. Salvation in Christ is realized and completed in full at the time someone believes into Him. Once having began, the life we have in Christ is eternal, everlasting, into the ages, forever, never ending, and . . . the one having believed into Christ will in no case, not for any reason whatsoever, in no wise will ever perish. Everlasting means . . . everlasting, no matter if you continue to neglect these words.

Moreover, it is God's will that His children should comtinue to know that we, those of us having believed into Christ, have everlasting life.

Your works based and co-savior salvation is not Scriptural.

This is who we are in Christ by the grace of God -
Eph 2:8 "For by grace you are saved {perfect passive participle}, through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God;"
- one having been saved through faith, a past action completed in full, where the result continues.

Amen!

 

[Gregg T]

Okay. Brother just keep ignoring the scriptures I posted, I'm sure that will change what they say.

God bless.


JLB

No one is ignoring the Scriptures you posted, but your interpretation of them.

Can you acknowledge this?

 

[JLB]

No one is ignoring the Scriptures you posted, but your interpretation of them.

Can you acknowledge this?

• I will acknowledge a specific scripture and what the actual scripture says.

Here is what I said - Please pick one of the scriptures and references and let's discuss.

• Quote the phrase I stated and the corresponding scripture, and let's discuss what you disagree with.

The fully accomplished work is Christ Jesus and the cross, and His resurrection from the dead.

When a person believes, and is born again, the process of transformation begins, which requires us to co-operate in this process.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:1-2


Again, this is our responsibility to accomplish these these, by His divine power and grace working in us:

• I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice

God doesn't make you present your body as a living sacrifice, it is your responsibility to do.

• do not be conformed to this world

God doesn't make you to "not be conformed to the world", it is our responsibility to do this, by His grace.

The same principle is seen in all the scriptures that I posted.

He has given us the divine grace and power to accomplish His will in the following areas:

• Cleaning ourself from all filthiness of flesh and spirit.
• Putting to death the deeds of the flesh
• Practicing righteousness
• Walking in the truth
• Working out or own salvation
• Walking according to the Spirit
• By patient continuance in doing good

All these things and more, are our responsibility to either do or not do.


There are two ways for the born again, Spirit filled Christian to live their life on earth:

1. According to the Spirit
2. According to the flesh

The bible is clear, it is our responsibility to walk according to the Spirit and bring forth the fruit of the Spirit.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:16-26
Click to expand...



If we are not walking according to the Spirit and bring forth the fruit of the Spirit, then we are walking according to the flesh, and practicing the works of the flesh.

It's one of the other.






Let's read and review what the scripture actual says, with the context, to see how what the scripture teaches us, with what you are trying to teach us.


12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. Philippians 2:12-16


There is the key word which refutes your theory about salvation.

Salvation comes from obedience: Obeying the Gospel; Obeying Jesus.


Example -

Jesus tells us to "Do not lie". When we lie to our neighbor, we are not loving them or God.

If we disobey this command, and stubbornly refuse to turn away from lying then the result is clearly seen:

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

God has given us the power and grace to overcome the sinful works of the flesh, one of which is lying, but we must ourselves, by the Spirit put to death, the deeds of the flesh.



JLB

 

[JLB]

1Jn 5:1 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated {perfect passive indicative} from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.

Everyone believing is present tense.


Those who present tense believe, are present tense saved.


Now let's discuss what the biblical word "believe" means.



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

When a person believes, and is born again, the process of transformation begins, which requires us to co-operate in this process.

"Which requires us to co-operate in this process": this is the primary concept in all our disagreements, in that I believe those who are saved will definitely have the "desire and the ability to do His good pleasure." There is no reason to think He will not do this in everyone born again. If those claiming faith have not this in their lives then God has not been in their lives. Thus it's not in the capacity that salvation requires the doing but that the believer will want to do, because God causes us to desire it.

Blessings!

 

[netchaplain]

Also, thank you GT for your clear and instructional posts!
Blessings!

 

[JLB]

The choice is already made and settled for one born again to please God, because He makes it so (Phil 2:13). We are at the point of repeating ourselves and probably done with this issue. Enjoying our time in the Word though!

You keep saying things that correspond with the OSAS doctrine, but don't correspond with the scripture language and context of the reference you cited.

Every time I refer to the language of the scripture, you ignore what the scripture says, in favor of what your doctrine "thinks" the scripture says, and you just keep saying what OSAS has taught you, and post a scripture reference without posting the scripture and context.

Here is the actual scripture, with context, for us to discuss.



12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. 14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. Philippians 2:12-16


Where in the verses does it refer to The choice is already made and settled for one born again to please God,

It's up to the believer continue in obedience.

God does not do the obeying for us, that is our responsibility.
God does not do the holding fast the word of life for us, that is our responsibility.


These are salvation essential elements of our faith.


The choice is not already made and settled, it is our responsibility to continue to believe, continue in the faith, continue to hold fast the word of life throughout our life.


If you believe yesterday, but don't believe today, then how can you still be a believer?

A believer is someone who believes, and hold fast the word by which the were saved through faith, otherwise their intial believing that they did for a few days or weeks or months or years, was done in vain.

• holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2



JLB

 

[JLB]

"Which requires us to co-operate in this process": this is the primary concept in all our disagreements, in that I believe those who are saved will definitely have the "desire and the ability to do His good pleasure." There is no reason to think He will not do this in everyone born again. If those claiming faith have not this in their lives then God has not been in their lives. Thus it's not in the capacity that salvation requires the doing but that the believer will want to do, because God causes us to desire it.

Blessings!

I also believe that those who are born again and then go on to receive the Holy Spirit, have the "desire and ability to do His good pleasure".

We agree on this point.

Where I disagree, is the doing of His good pleasure.

Those who have the power and grace of the Holy Spirit within them and walk according to the Spirit for a while, then fall into sexual immorality and continue in it and never repent, and end up dying in this state, will end up being partakers of His vengeance along with the sons of disobedience.

This particular example is rampant in the churches in america, even among the leadership.

Please read the actual language of the scripture:

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

• Therefore do not be partakers with them.

JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Those who have the power and grace of the Holy Spirit within them and walk according to the Spirit for a while, then fall into sexual immorality and continue in it and never repent, and end up dying in this state, will end up being partakers of His vengeance along with the sons of disobedience.

It's not sensible to me that if God is working in you to desire His pleasure, how could you ever choose to do otherwise. The meaning of Him working this in us is that we will never desire otherwise, or else He wasn't working in you.

Much of Scripture (esp. NT) is obscure in many places, in that it often has a deeper meaning than what's initially viewed, which causes us to be patiently seeking the Spirit's teachings (1 Cor 2:13) concerning it as we keep studying it. Learning is greatly increased when we learn to refer to Bible commentators but most choose to "lean to their own understanding," which is normal for some time, until we realize the importance of these men of God who are used by Him.

For example, you will never find (I haven't after 40 yrs) a Bible commentator that does not believe that faith and salvation are not always permanent, and I use this doctrine (OSAS) as an example because it is the most important teaching concerning spiritual growth.

It's very time consuming for two believers to debate this subject (OSAS) if they disagree because it entails the entirety of the NT, and also because of Biblical obscurity. I've learned that most who have a good understanding of the majority of Bible teachings came by it by many years of study (average 15-25 yrs).