Essential vs Nonessential

[JLB]

But it's your only basis for changing the "they" within this passage from what's clearly referring to false teachers to a 'believer' (your word, not Peter's) in Christ Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins.

I have changed nothing.

I have bolded clearly each reference in the passage.

Please post the verse where this occurs and indicate what you believe from the verse what your point is.

18 For when they [false teacher's] speak great swelling words of emptiness, they [false teacher's] allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped [believer's] from those who live in error. 19 While they [false teacher's] promise them [believer's] liberty, they themselves [false teacher's] are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they [believer's] have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they [believer's] are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them [believer's] not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.[believer's] 22 But it has happened to them [believer's] according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:18-22

Those is verse 18 who have escaped those who live in error, are those in verse 20 who have escaped the pollutions of the world.

The bottom line is "they" who have escape the pollutions of the world, have done so through the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

They in verse 20 who are entangled again and overcome, are those who have escaped through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, in which they have known the way of righteousness, and have escaped they pollutions of the world.

• It would be better for those who have known the way of righteousness, to have never known it, than to turn back and become entangled in the pollutions of the world again and overcome by it.

It would be better for unbelievers, than for believers who turn back to the pollutions of the world, and are overcome by it.

Unbelievers go to hell.

Those who turn back to the world and live as the sons of disobedience, after having known the way of righteousness through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, will definitely have it worse in hell than those who never knew the way of righteousness through Jesus Christ.


That is what Peter is teaching us here in 2 Peter 2, using the sons of God, angels, as an example.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4


JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

Those who do good, because they have found forgiveness from our Lord and have His Spirit within

2 Cor 1:22~~New American Standard Bible
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
John 14:6~~New American Standard Bible
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
Eph 4:30~~New American Standard Bible
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

So your next statement contradicts many scriptures.

Those who have found forgiveness from the Lord and have His life within them, but do evil and walk in unforgiveness towards our brother's and sister's in Christ, will come forth in the resurrection of condemnation.

 

[JLB]

2 Cor 1:22~~New American Standard Bible
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
John 14:6~~New American Standard Bible
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
Eph 4:30~~New American Standard Bible
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

So your next statement contradicts many scriptures.

The words in John 5:24-29 as well as the words in Romans 2:2-11 contradict no scriptures.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29


again


2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
Romans 2:2-11

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life - Jesus
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality - Paul

Paul teaches us this throughout the New Testament, in many places.

• having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Those who make the choice to discipline their body and keep it under subjection to the Spirit within, in which they, by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the flesh, being bought with the precious blood of Jesus they are slaves to God, and have their fruit unto holiness, will in the end receive eternal life.

• The end result of being a slave of God and His righteousness, bearing the fruit of His holy Life within us, is everlasting life.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:15-23

Those who choose instead, after being bought with the blood of Jesus, and receiving the power of the Spirit and grace, to disobey the truth and present their bodies as a slave to sin, and return to practicing the sinful works of the flesh, from which they were cleansed, will in the end reap the wages of their sin, which is death: Not inheriting the kingdom of God. Being cast into the lake of fire, forever, which is the second death.

Remember what Paul taught us in Romans 2 -

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

• For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


Being free from the condemnation to come is for those who walk according to the Spirit within, not for those who according to the flesh, by practicing the works of the flesh. Those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of god.

Remember what Jesus said to us in John 5 -

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

Throughout the New Testament we are encouraged and admonished, as well as warned about these things.


Please share with us some scriptures that support your view, that born again Christians can live an immoral lifestyle, in which the practice the works of the flesh, and never repent or confess theirs sin to be forgiven, but are still somehow saved on the Day of Judgement.


Remember what Paul taught us?

We will be judged according to what we do; according to our deeds.

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath.
Romans 2:6-8



JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

The words in John 5:24-29 as well as the words in Romans 2:2-11 contradict no scriptures.

Correct. It was your words that contradict scripture.

JLB said: ↑
Those who have found forgiveness from the Lord and have His life within them, but do evil and walk in unforgiveness towards our brother's and sister's in Christ, will come forth in the resurrection of condemnation.

2 Cor 1:22~~New American Standard Bible
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
John 14:6~~New American Standard Bible
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
Eph 4:30~~New American Standard Bible
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Please share with us some scriptures that support your view, that born again Christians can live an immoral lifestyle, in which the practice the works of the flesh, and never repent or confess theirs sin to be forgiven, but are still somehow saved on the Day of Judgement.

Sure.

1 Cor 5:5~~New American Standard Bible
I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2 Cor 5:10~~New American Standard Bible
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

1 Cor 3~~ 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[FreeGrace]

OK, JLB, here's my post:

"JLB said:
Please post the scripture with the context."

I replied:
Ok, here's the verse:
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

And here's the context:
John 10 -
1 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.
2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”
6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.
7Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.
8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.
9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.
13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
19 The Jews who heard these words were again divided.
20 Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?”
21 But others said, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”
Further Conflict Over Jesus’ Claims
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade.
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him,
32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’?
35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
40 Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. There he stayed,
41 and many people came to him. They said, “Though John never performed a sign, all that John said about this man was true.”
42 And in that place many believed in Jesus.

So, what does Jesus mean when He said those He gives eternal life shall never perish?

 

[JLB]

Correct. It was your words that contradict scripture.

JLB said: ↑
Those who have found forgiveness from the Lord and have His life within them, but do evil and walk in unforgiveness towards our brother's and sister's in Christ, will come forth in the resurrection of condemnation.

2 Cor 1:22~~New American Standard Bible
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
John 14:6~~New American Standard Bible
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
Eph 4:30~~New American Standard Bible
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.



Sure.

1 Cor 5:5~~New American Standard Bible
I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2 Cor 5:10~~New American Standard Bible
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

1 Cor 3~~ 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

No scriptures here mention anything about a believer, can live an immoral lifestyle, in which the practice the works of the flesh, and never repent or confess theirs sin to be forgiven, but are still somehow saved on the Day of Judgement.


Here is my scriptures that say people who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


again


3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.Therefore do not be partakers with them.

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8

• God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

We will all be judged by what we do; according to our deeds.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

Eternal life will given to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

God's wrath will be for those who do not obey the truth.

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Please share with us some scriptures that support your view, that born again Christians can live an immoral lifestyle, in which the practice the works of the flesh, and never repent or confess theirs sin to be forgiven, but are still somehow saved on the Day of Judgement.

None of your scriptures that you quote have any words or language in them that say...Christians can live an immoral lifestyle, in which the practice the works of the flesh, and never repent or confess theirs sin to be forgiven, but are still somehow saved on the Day of Judgement.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

No scriptures here mention anything about a believer, can live an immoral lifestyle, in which the practice the works of the flesh, and never repent or confess theirs sin to be forgiven, but are still somehow saved on the Day of Judgement.

This fails to answer the question of what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life. The answer is RIGHT IN THE STATEMENT!!

But you're keeping your distance from it, for sure.

Here is my scriptures that say people who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So then, is this just a tacit denial that everyone given eternal life shall never perish??

Jesus said "I give THEM eternal life, and THEY shall never perish."

But isn't your view that some who have been given eternal life WILL perish?

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

This passage does NOT negate what Jesus said in John 10:28. In fact, to not inherit the kingdom means exactly what Eph 5:5 says: "have no inheritance IN the kingdom".

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

Exactly! As I said.

Please share with us some scriptures that support your view, that born again Christians can live an immoral lifestyle, in which the practice the works of the flesh, and never repent or confess theirs sin to be forgiven, but are still somehow saved on the Day of Judgement.

I've given it over and over, and you've just dodged it over and over.

Jesus said this regarding those who have believed in Him:
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

End of issue. Everyone one given eternal life shall never perish. That is exactly what Jesus meant in John 10:28.

None of your scriptures that you quote have any words or language in them that say...Christians can live an immoral lifestyle, in which the practice the works of the flesh, and never repent or confess theirs sin to be forgiven, but are still somehow saved on the Day of Judgement.

Why should anyone think of themselves so highly as to demand that verses say exactly what they demand them to say before they will believe them?

What Jesus said in John 10:28 is very clear. Those given eternal life shall never perish.

So, let's do this, since your view persists that there will be some who have been given eternal life that shall perish.

I'll state the meaning of what Jesus said in John 10:28.

Everyone given eternal life shall never perish.

Now, please take that statement of what I believe Jesus meant and state what you believe Jesus meant from what He said.

Fair enough? I've given my understanding of His meaning.

What's your meaning of from what He said?

Please leave out every other verse in the Bible. I'm interested in just John 10:28 and what Jesus meant in that verse.

If this isn't done, I'll take that as an inability to understand what He meant.

So that would mean an inability to determine the meaning of a very simple and straightforward statement by Jesus.

So if no meaning is provided, why should anyone accept ANYTHING else about what you might believe any other verse means?

iow, if one cannot figure out the very simple and straightforward John 10:28, why should anyone accept your meaning of any other verse, especially those with figures of speech and parables, which are anything but simple and straightforward.

 

[gr8grace3]

Here is my scriptures that say people who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

None of the scriptures you quote say immoral, born again believers will be raised for condemnation/ great white throne judgement.

The scriptures you quote say that believers who live immoral and in their flesh will not INHERIT the Kingdom(not to mention a miserable existence and divine discipline.). They will not be rewarded, and suffer loss of their inheritance........but they will be saved or ENTER the kingdom.......as if through fire.
1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Salvation is a FREE Gift that is irrevocable the moment we believe Acts 16:31, Rom 11:29. Rewards and our inheritance hinge upon us choosing to live the Christian way of life and Glorifying HIM.
1 John 2:28 (ESV)


28 And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.

 

[WIP]

Salvation is a FREE Gift that is irrevocable the moment we believe Acts 16:31, Rom 11:29. Rewards and our inheritance hinge upon us choosing to live the Christian way of life and Glorifying HIM.
1 John 2:28 (ESV)

I'm curious. What are the rewards you speak of?

 

[JLB]

None of the scriptures you quote say immoral, born again believers will be raised for condemnation/ great white throne judgement.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

Those refers to everyone who practice the works of the flesh.

Just as John taught us, that all liars will not inherit the kingdom of God.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

The Ephesian warning says it this way -

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.Therefore do not be partakers with them.

The wrath of God is reserved for the disobedient, who do not obey the truth.

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:8

Eternal life on the other hand, is reserved for those who, obey Jesus to love their neighbor, and love God; those who do good, not evil.


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7

• will render to each one according to his deeds

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality.



JLB

 

[JLB]

This fails to answer the question of what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life.

Eternal life is for those who obey the Gospel; obey the truth. Those who are disobedient and do not obey the truth, will partake of God's wrath.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Word for word, the unmistakable answer as to who will receive eternal life:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
Romans 2:6-8

Those who are disobedient and do not obey the truth, will partake of God's wrath.

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Here is an example:

You shall not lie:

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


John says it this way, as he gives us the text book definition of eternal life: Knowing God.

• And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

John goes on to teach us:

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar

That's why this same John who gave us the definition of eternal life, which is knowing Him, also said those who claim to know Him, should obey Him, which is why John made this statement in revelation:

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Based on these scriptures, do you believe that Christians who are liars, will inherit eternal life; will inherit the kingdom of God?



JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

I'm curious. What are the rewards you speak of?

Crowns.
Crown of life. Rev 2:10,James 1:12
Crown of righteousness. 2 Tim 4:8
Crown of Glory. 1 Pet 5:4 (for the pastor teacher who feeds the sheep through his gift and brings the sheep to spiritual maturity.)

Revelation 3:11 (ESV)
11 I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

Reign with Him. Rev 2:26
The order of the morning star. Rev 2:28

Uniform of honor. Rev 3:4
A new title and rank, an honors list so to speak. Rev 3:5, Rev 2:17
A eternal record of our advancement placed in Gods temple. Rev 3:12
Privilege of the tree of life and a place in the garden of God. Rev 2:7, Rev 22:14


Revelation 22:12 (ESV)
12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

2 John 8 (ESV)
8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.

1 Corinthians 3:13 (ESV)
13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done

2 John 8 (ESV)

8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.

 

[gr8grace3]

Based on these scriptures, do you believe that Christians who are liars, will inherit eternal life; will inherit the kingdom of God?

A lying, born again person HAS eternal life. 1 John 5:13 And if they persist in lying they may lose their inheritance in His kingdom. 2 John 1:8
Based on this scripture, do you believe that Christians can perish?

New American Standard Bible
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

 

[JLB]

A lying, born again person HAS eternal life. 1 John 5:13 And if they persist in lying they may lose their inheritance in His kingdom. 2 John 1:8
Based on this scripture, do you believe that Christians can perish?

New American Standard Bible
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Sorry but the truth is clear.

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

A lying, born again person HAS eternal life. 1 John 5:13

1 John 5:18 does not say "a lying born again person has eternal life".

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

It is up to the child of God to "keep themselves", or as Paul said, -

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27


the text book definition of eternal life: Knowing God.

• And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

again -

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6

• by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar

That's why this same John who gave us the definition of eternal life, which is knowing Him, also said those who claim to know Him, should obey Him, which is why John made this statement in revelation:

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

Sorry but the truth is clear.

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

1 John 5:18 does not say "a lying born again person has eternal life".

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

It is up to the child of God to "keep themselves", or as Paul said, -

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27


the text book definition of eternal life: Knowing God.

• And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

again -

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6

• by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar

That's why this same John who gave us the definition of eternal life, which is knowing Him, also said those who claim to know Him, should obey Him, which is why John made this statement in revelation:

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

JLB

John 10:28
John 5:24.
John 3:16.



Rom 8~~37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[JLB]

John 10:28
John 5:24.
John 3:16.



Rom 8~~37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Sorry, you have failed to provide any scriptures that says born again Christians can live a life of immorality, in which they practice the works of the flesh, and inherit eternal life on the Day of Judgement.

the text book definition of eternal life: Knowing God.

• And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

again -

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6

• by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar

That's why this same John who gave us the definition of eternal life, which is knowing Him, also said those who claim to know Him, should obey Him, which is why John made this statement in revelation:

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

This is especially true for me, and all who call upon the name of Jesus Christ for salvation.


Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19




JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

Those refers to everyone who practice the works of the flesh.

Just as John taught us, that all liars will not inherit the kingdom of God.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

The Ephesian warning says it this way -
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.Therefore do not be partakers with them.

The wrath of God is reserved for the disobedient, who do not obey the truth.

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:8

Eternal life on the other hand, is reserved for those who, obey Jesus to love their neighbor, and love God; those who do good, not evil.
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7

• will render to each one according to his deeds

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality.
JLB

Let's get to the bottom line.

Is it possible for someone who has been given eternal life to ever perish? yes or no

 

[FreeGrace]

Eternal life is for those who obey the Gospel; obey the truth. Those who are disobedient and do not obey the truth, will partake of God's wrath.eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
Word for word, the unmistakable answer as to who will receive eternal life:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
Romans 2:6-8
Those who are disobedient and do not obey the truth, will partake of God's wrath.

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Here is an example:
You shall not lie:

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

John says it this way, as he gives us the text book definition of eternal life: Knowing God.

• And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

John goes on to teach us:

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar

That's why this same John who gave us the definition of eternal life, which is knowing Him, also said those who claim to know Him, should obey Him, which is why John made this statement in revelation:

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Based on these scriptures, do you believe that Christians who are liars, will inherit eternal life; will inherit the kingdom of God?
JLB

Let's cut to the chase:

Is it possible for someone who has been given eternal life to ever perish? yes or no

 

[FreeGrace]

gr8grace3 said: ↑
A lying, born again person HAS eternal life. 1 John 5:13 And if they persist in lying they may lose their inheritance in His kingdom. 2 John 1:8
Based on this scripture, do you believe that Christians can perish?

New American Standard Bible
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Sorry but the truth is clear.

all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Sorry about truth? No, one should be sorry about misunderstanding the truth.

And your response to gr8grace3's question: "based on (John 10:28), do you believe that Christians can perish?" seem to be that believers who lie "shall have their part in the lake of fire".

So, it is apparent that what Jesus said in John 10:28 isn't considered the truth then.

Further, if all liars go to the lake of fire, that would be nearly the entire human race, since no one is perfectly honest all the time. So how can that be true?

Finally, your response seems to indicate that Christ failed to die for the sin of lying.

What text would lead one to the conclusion that Christ specifically did NOT die for some sins?

1 John 5:18 does not say "a lying born again person has eternal life".

Why does Scripture HAVE TO meet your unreasonable demands about how to teach a principle?

In fact, Jesus was very plain and clear about eternal life in John 10:28. Those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

The point is glaringly clear. When a person is given eternal life, Jesus SAYS they shall never perish.

Nothing you've opined or quoted from Scripture changes any of that. Nothing at all.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

All believers have been born of God.

Do you no longer sin? yes or no

It is up to the child of God to "keep themselves"

To "keep themselves" from what, specifically? Let's remember forum RULES and provide Scripture when attempting to support an opinion or claim.

This is what Scripture says about "keeping yourselves":
1 John 5:21
Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

Jude 21
Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

From the context of your post, it seems your claim here is that Scripture teaches us to "keep ourselves saved". But these 2 verses totally rejects that notion, huh.

or as Paul said, -

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27

Please explain what you think "disqualified" means.

That's why this same John who gave us the definition of eternal life, which is knowing Him, also said those who claim to know Him, should obey Him, which is why John made this statement in revelation:

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

JLB

Again, did Christ die for all sins, or only some of them? If only some, please provide any verse or passage that says so, and be sure to include the verse or verses that specifically list the sins that He didn't die for, if He didn't die for all sins.

The problem with your views are that they cannot be supported from Scripture. They are opinions only.

The phrase "once for all" as used in reference to Christ's death means one time for all sins.

Unless one can show otherwise. Which I know can't be done.

But please at least try to support your opinion from Scripture, as forum RULES require.

 

[JLB]

Let's cut to the chase:

Is it possible for someone who has been given eternal life to ever perish? yes or no

Please refer to a scripture, and it's context.

Which scripture refers to have been given eternal life?

The definition of eternal life is knowing God.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3

Eternal life is in Christ.

Those who are in Christ, have eternal life through faith in Him.

Those who are in Him, then later are removed from Him, are no longer connected or joined or are "one spirit" with Him.

His Spirit is Life; Eternal Life.


JLB