Essential vs Nonessential

[Gregg T]

Everyone believing is present tense.

Those who present tense believe, are present tense saved.

Now let's discuss what the biblical word "believe" means.

JLB

Whats to discuss? You do not discuss, but demand to be heard and believed.

You work to keep the salvation you have; where I do nothing to remain in Christ. The result of my having been saved is a continuous, ongoing, sustained, guaranteed, promised, forever type of salvation - one not characterized merely by life, but by eternal life, one in which I will never perish.

You are your own co-savior; where I acknowledge One God and Savior, One who is both the Beginning of my salvation and the One who will bring it to completion.

Yours is a self-righteousness, where the LORD is my righteousness.

You rest in your own ability to sustain what you think you have; where I have entered God's rest, having been set firmly in the LORD Jesus Christ.

- - -

We have been discussing what biblical words mean, what certain scriptures mean, and we disagree

I reject your doctrine and way of thinking about salvation. I do not permit you to interpret Scripture on my behalf, supplanting the One who endwells and teaches me. You would do well to come to terms with this.

For by grace I am one having been saved through faith, and this not out from myself, the gift is of God, not out from works that I should not myself boast; for I am a workmanship of Him, one created in Christ Jesus toward good works, which God prepared before in order that I should walk about in them.

 

[JLB]

You work to keep the salvation you have; where I do nothing to remain in Christ. The result of my having been saved is a continuous, ongoing, sustained, guaranteed, promised, forever type of salvation - one not characterized merely by life, but by eternal life, one in which I will never perish.

Sounds great.

• Now all you have to do, is present the scriptures for this statement.

Here is who the bible says will receive eternal life.

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
Romans 2:6-8

This says each of us will be judged according to their deeds.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

and again


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

where I do nothing to remain in Christ.

Here is what Jesus said about those who do nothing.

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:41-46


Those who did not:

for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’


Fruitless branches that do nothing with the talents and gifts and the life of Jesus Christ within and the Holy Spirit that they are given, end up being removed from the vine, and cast into the fire and burned.




JLB

 

[JLB]

It's not sensible to me that if God is working in you to desire His pleasure, how could you ever choose to do otherwise.

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. Philippians 2:12-16


It makes perfect sense to me, when I read the the words of this passage.

• it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure

• His will for us is our sanctification.

For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality. 1 Thessalonians 4:


Context:

3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. 8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8


Like the example I gave earlier with the scripture, that deals with sexual immorality, because it is rampant in the Church today, as it was in the Church during Paul's ministry, even among the leadership.

Born again, Spirit filled pastor and leaders who commit adultry within their own congregations with the wives of people they are supposed to shepparding and watching over.

The will of God for them is to be sanctified and possess their own vessel in honor, but instead they give in to the flesh, and as this passage says they "defraud their brother" by committing adultery.

• that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such
• For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness.
  
• Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

The bible plainly says that those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.


3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

God working in people to both will and do His good pleasure which is to love our neighbor.


Do you think committing adultery with your neighbors wife is loving your neighbor?


JLB

 

[Gregg T]

Sounds great.

• Now all you have to do, is present the scriptures for this statement.

Here is who the bible says will receive eternal life.

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
Romans 2:6-8

This says each of us will be judged according to their deeds.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

and again


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Here is what Jesus said about those who do nothing.

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:41-46


Those who did not:

for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’


Fruitless branches that do nothing with the talents and gifts and the life of Jesus Christ within and the Holy Spirit that they are given, end up being removed from the vine, and cast into the fire and burned.




JLB

Remaining in Christ is passive on the part of the one having been saved.

Growing in Christ is active on the part of the one having been saved, along with the One keeping him saved.

 

[JLB]

Remaining in Christ is passive on the part of the one having been saved.

Growing in Christ is active on the part of the one having been saved, along with the One keeping him saved.

Thanks for sharing another opinion of yours here.



JLB

 

[Gregg T]

Yes, as I said God works in His, to both deisre as well as do, His will.

What I am saying it is up to us to either do it or not do it.

• Those who obey the truth, will receive eternal life.
• Those who do not obey the truth will receive His wrath.

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation

God loves us dearly, and is for us.

His mercy is new every morning, and His grace is sufficient for us.


However, He is not going to make you do what He ask's you to do.

He will work with you, and help you, and forgive you and restore you, but you have the choice to make concerning either obeying Him or not.




Couldn't be further from the truth.

Each born again person has to make the choice to live according to the flesh, or live according to the Spirit of God within us.

This is a process, and must be accomplished through maturity and discipline.

God does not expect baby Christians to accomplish this right away, but gives us time to mature and grow.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:12-14

• do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Only a born again Spirit baptized Christian can obey this, not an unbeliever.

• do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Only a born again Spirit baptized Christian can obey this, not an unbeliever.



JLB

Since your profession of faith, have you done:
1. only good,
2. only evil, or
3. both good and evil?

 

[Gregg T]

Thanks for sharing another opinion of yours here.



JLB

one having been saved

• perfect passive participle and

you are saved

• perfect active indicative

Meaning:
Past action
completed in full
with ongoing result

in the verses I quoted,
demonstrating that
it is not
my opinion
but what
your bible says,
and which
conflicts with
your soteriology,
and for which
you offer
no refutation.

 

[JLB]

one having been saved

• perfect passive participle and

you are saved

• perfect active indicative

Meaning:
Past action
completed in full
with ongoing result

in the verses I quoted,
demonstrating that
it is not
my opinion
but what
your bible says,
and which
conflicts with
your soteriology,
and for which
you offer
no refutation.

Since your profession of faith, have you done:
1. only good,
2. only evil, or
3. both good and evil?

That makes a record 5 posts with zero scripture.

Very very unstable theology sir.

JLB

 

[Gregg T]

I said:

Since your profession of faith, have you done:
1. only good,
2. only evil, or
3. both good and evil?

to which you replied:

That makes a record 5 posts with zero scripture.

Very very unstable theology sir.

JLB

Joh 5:29 "and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

You keep posting John 5:28-29 to justify your good works towards salvation, so I am calling you out on the matter, to see if your own theology holds true for yourself.

Again, Please answer my question:

Since your profession of faith, have you done:
1. only good,
2. only evil, or
3. both good and evil?

 

[JLB]

I said:

to which you replied:


Joh 5:29 "and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

You keep posting John 5:28-29 to justify your good works towards salvation, so I am calling you out on the matter, to see if your own theology holds true for yourself.

Again, Please answer my question:

Since your profession of faith, have you done:
1. only good,
2. only evil, or
3. both good and evil?

I posted Jesus and Paul's words concerning those who will receive eternal life.

They are not my words, they are scripture.

If you go back and address the points I made and the scriptures I posted then you can ask me a question.

All you have done is post your opinion with no scriptures and now you want to try and change the subject and attack me personally.

Go back and address wha points I have made and the scriptures I have presented.

As I said to netchaplain, I will be glad to discuss what the scriptures actually say, not mans opinion.

So here is the scripture that we can begin with.

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

I will share what I see in these words from our Lord.

Those who love people doing unto their fellow man as they would have them do to them will come forth in the resurrection of life.


Now you share something you see in His words.


JLB

 

[Gregg T]

If you go back and address the points I made and the scriptures I posted then you can ask me a question.

All you have done is post your opinion with no scriptures and now you want to try and change the subject and attack me personally.
JLB

All I have done is post opinion?

When I address a point you make with Scripture, grammar, and exegesis, you avoid refuting the grammar and exegesis.

Rather, salvation has come to the one who believed into Christ. Jesus sustains our salvation afterwards amd forever.

1Jn 5:1 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated {perfect passive indicative} from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.

1Jn 5:11-13 "And this is the witness: that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in His Son. The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life. I wrote these things to you, the ones believing in the name of the Son of God, that you may know {perfect active indicative} that you have everlasting life, and that you may believe in the name of the Son of God."

JLB, the perfect tense in those verses indicates that the action was completed in full in the past, where the result of that action continues. An individual who has believed into Christ was at that time saved, completely, in full, the action was completed; however, the result continues. Salvation in Christ is realized and completed in full at the time someone believes into Him. Once having began, the life we have in Christ is eternal, everlasting, into the ages, forever, never ending, and . . . the one having believed into Christ will in no case, not for any reason whatsoever, in no wise will ever perish. Everlasting means . . . everlasting, no matter if you continue to neglect these words.

Moreover, it is God's will that His children should comtinue to know that we, those of us having believed into Christ, have everlasting life.

Your works based and co-savior salvation is not Scriptural.

So, lets not continue with another verse, but you may give answer to the above first - refuting my comments, rather than introducing another aspect of the verse.

When you have refuted my comments above, then you may answer this:

Since your profession of faith, have you done:
1. only good,
2. only evil, or
3. both good and evil?

 

[JLB]

All I have done is post opinion?

When I address a point you make with Scripture, grammar, and exegesis, you avoid refuting the grammar and exegesis.

Again, if you want to address what the actual language of the scripture says, then that's great.

If you want to talk about about what other people say, and your opinion about commentary, then count me out.

So, lets not continue with another verse, but you may give answer to the above first - refuting my comments, rather than introducing another aspect of the verse.

When you have refuted my comments above, then you may answer this:

Since your profession of faith, have you done:
1. only good,
2. only evil, or
3. both good and evil?

Again, if you want to address what the actual language of the scripture says, then that's great.

If you want to talk about about what other people say, and your opinion about commentary, then count me out.


What you do, or have done or plan to do, is not going to change what the scripture says.


Jesus words are the truth.

It's up to us to believe what He said or not.

It's up to us to either obey Him or not.

The Holy Spirit will not make us do what we are commanded to do throughout the scriptures.

Starting with obeying the Gospel, and ending with loving people.

24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life. 1 John 2:24


The Condition that is to be obeyed:

• If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

The result of the condition being obeyed:

• And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

again

23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:23-24

• this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another

Can you disobey this commandment, and expect to come forth in the resurrection of life, based on Jesus words, which say:

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

If we stumble, then we have an advocate with the Father who loves us and gave Himself for us, Jesus Christ.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgives us.

If we have issues that we are struggling with, then we can ask God to deliver us from that evil.


I know from experience that He is faithful and will do it, and that His word is true.





JLB

 

[Gregg T]

Again, if you want to address what the actual language of the scripture says, then that's great.

If you want to talk about about what other people say, and your opinion about commentary, then count me out.




Again, if you want to address what the actual language of the scripture says, then that's great.

If you want to talk about about what other people say, and your opinion about commentary, then count me out.


What you do, or have done or plan to do, is not going to change what the scripture says.


Jesus words are the truth.

It's up to us to believe what He said or not.

It's up to us to either obey Him or not.

The Holy Spirit will not make us do what we are commanded to do throughout the scriptures.

Starting with obeying the Gospel, and ending with loving people.

24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life. 1 John 2:24


The Condition that is to be obeyed:

• If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

The result of the condition being obeyed:

• And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

again

23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:23-24

• this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another

Can you disobey this commandment, and expect to come forth in the resurrection of life, based on Jesus words, which say:

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

If we stumble, then we have an advocate with the Father who loves us and gave Himself for us, Jesus Christ.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgives us.

If we have issues that we are struggling with, then we can ask God to deliver us from that evil.


I know from experience that He is faithful and will do it, and that His word is true.





JLB

I'll take this your latest deflection and non-answer to my question, among many unanswered posts on your part, as an admission that your soteriology falls apart when you apply it to your own life.

Yes, you may count yourself out; but I will conclude this matter on my part with a final comment on a portion of John 5:29, "those who did the good things to a resurrection of life," What is the good thing to a resurrection of eternal life? It is the one hearing Jesus' words and believing the Father who sent His Son (see John 5:24). That one spoken of 'does not come into judgment, but has passed {perfect active indicative} out from feath into the Life'.

The act of his passing out from death into the Life is a past action completed in full, where the result of having entered into the Life is ongoing; and that without any further qualifications. Nothing negates or reverses that past action.

 

[JLB]

I'll take this your latest deflection and non-answer to my question, among many unanswered posts on your part, as an admission that your soteriology falls apart when you apply it to your own life.

Yes, you may count yourself out; but I will conclude this matter on my part with a final comment on a portion of John 5:29, "those who did the good things to a resurrection of life," What is the good thing to a resurrection of eternal life? It is the one hearing Jesus' words and believing the Father who sent His Son (see John 5:24). That one spoken of 'does not come into judgment, but has passed {perfect active indicative} out from feath into the Life'.

The act of his passing out from death into the Life is a past action completed in full, where the result of having entered into the Life is ongoing; and that without any further qualifications. Nothing negates or reverses that past action.

Please refer to what the scriptures say, not just endless talking about opinion and human reasoning.

I have answered all your question that pertain to the scriptures.

You have posted so many things that are just your opinion with no scripture.

You can make up all the nonsense you want about me, and attack me any way you like, but it won't change what the scriptures say.

Here is what Jesus said about those who would inherit eternal life, in which the will come forth in the resurrection of life.

John 5:24 with some context -

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29


Is this true or not -

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Remember back a few post's ago, when I asked you to share what you see in these words, and you refused to engage in a healthy discussion of what this scripture says?

From post number 270 -

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

I will share what I see in these words from our Lord.

Those who love people doing unto their fellow man as they would have them do to them will come forth in the resurrection of life.


Now you share something you see in His words.

What do you believe Jesus is teaching us about those who will come forth in the resurrection of life.

The act of his passing out from death into the Life is a past action completed in full, where the result of having entered into the Life is ongoing; and that without any further qualifications. Nothing negates or reverses that past action.

All opinion.



JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

I will share what I see in these words from our Lord.

Those who love people doing unto their fellow man as they would have them do to them will come forth in the resurrection of life.

This would be the evil that the Lord was speaking of in John 5:29.

"Lord, Lord I loved people in your name, did unto them as I would have them do unto me in your name! I am good enough!"

Mat 7~~ 21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father(John 6:40) who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

 

[JLB]

Last time I'll ask you this simple question about your claim:
Is it your position that people are saved by "escaping those who live in error"?

I thought it was your claim that belief in (obedience to, in fact) the Lord Jesus Christ is what's required for salvation. Yet somehow in this verse, escaping from "those who live in error" is good enough to save. Odd really.

But either way, Peter never says the "they" in verse 18 and 19 "believed" or were "saved".

No person has ever been nor will ever be saved by "escaping from those (false teachers) who live in error". Nor did Peter ever say the "they" in v18/19 were saved through their escape to Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, or Bithynia.

I never claimed that people are saved by escaping from those who live in error.


18 For when they [false teacher's] speak great swelling words of emptiness, they [false teacher's] allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped [believer's] from those who live in error. 19 While they [false teacher's] promise them [believer's] liberty, they themselves [false teacher's] are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they [believer's] have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they [believer's] are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them [believer's] not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.[believer's] 22 But it has happened to them [believer's] according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:18-22

Those is verse 18 who have escaped those who live in error, are those in verse 20 who have escaped the pollutions of the world.

The bottom line is "they" who have escape the pollutions of the world, have done so through the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

They in verse 20 who are entangled again and overcome, are those who have escaped through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, in which they have known the way of righteousness, and have escaped they pollutions of the world.

• It would be better for those who have known the way of righteousness, to have never known it, than to turn back and become entangled in the pollutions of the world again and overcome by it.

It would be better for unbelievers, than for believers who turn back to the pollutions of the world, and are overcome by it.

Unbelievers go to hell.

Those who turn back to the world and live as the sons of disobedience, after having known the way of righteousness through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, will definitely have it worse in hell than those who never knew the way of righteousness through Jesus Christ.


That is what Peter is teaching us here in 2 Peter 2, using the sons of God, angels, as an example.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4


JLB

 

[JLB]

This would be the evil that the Lord was speaking of in John 5:29.

"Lord, Lord I loved people in your name, did unto them as I would have them do unto me in your name! I am good enough!"

Mat 7~~ 21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father(John 6:40) who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

I see, so you believe that Those who love people doing unto their fellow man as they would have them do to them will come forth in the resurrection of life, are doing evil?


Makes no sense.


JLB

 

[chessman]

I never claimed that people are saved by escaping from those who live in error.

But it's your only basis for changing the "they" within this passage from what's clearly referring to false teachers to a 'believer' (your word, not Peter's) in Christ Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins.

People escaping from those who live in error (the pollutions of the world) does not constitute salvation or even believing in Jesus. Else, people could move to a deserted island and become saved. This is not a passage which supports your claim that:

it will be worse for believers in hell, than for unbelievers.

Which, BTW, was made in and belongs in the other thread on degrees of punishment in Hell

 

[gr8grace3]

I see, so you believe that Those who love people doing unto their fellow man as they would have them do to them will come forth in the resurrection of life, are doing evil?


Makes no sense.


JLB

Of course they are doing evil. Our righteousness is a "filthy rag" in Gods eyes.

Those who believe that they need to do "good" to be saved.........are in reality practicing evil/human good and practicing lawlessness.

Those who love people and do DIVINE good are saved and sealed with the Spirit and doing DIVINE good through the Spirit.

 

[JLB]

Of course they are doing evil. Our righteousness is a "filthy rag" in Gods eyes.

Those who believe that they need to do "good" to be saved.........are in reality practicing evil/human good and practicing lawlessness.

Those who love people and do DIVINE good are saved and sealed with the Spirit and doing DIVINE good through the Spirit.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Those who do good, because they have found forgiveness from our Lord and have His Spirit within, working in them to both will and do His good pleasure, will come forth in the resurrection of life.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

Those who have found forgiveness from the Lord and have His life within them, but do evil and walk in unforgiveness towards our brother's and sister's in Christ, will come forth in the resurrection of condemnation.

• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8



JLB