Essential vs Nonessential

[FreeGrace]

Sorry, you have failed to provide any scriptures that says born again Christians can live a life of immorality, in which they practice the works of the flesh, and inherit eternal life on the Day of Judgement.

I simply cannot fathom how anyone claiming to be a believer in Jesus Christ can be so dismissive of what He promises to those He gives eternal life. They SHALL NEVER PERISH. That is a clear statement of eternal security.

Therefore, there is no need for any verse that need to be stated in the way some keep demanding.

Where are any verses that actually SAY that salvation can be lost? So go ahead and demand specific wording for verses, even though your own camp cannot provide any verses that SAY what you claim.

Yet, John 10:28 covers ANY condition that your camp thinks will lose salvation by the VERY FACT that Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS for those He gives eternal life.

It is on the basis of being given eternal life that one SHALL NEVER PERISH.

The contrary view cannot be shown from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Let's cut to the chase:

Is it possible for someone who has been given eternal life to ever perish? yes or no"

Please refer to a scripture, and it's context.

This is no answer. It seems there is a strong reluctance to answer the question.

Which scripture refers to have been given eternal life?

Seriously? How does this answer the question. Don't worry about any verse. Just go ahead and answer the question.

The definition of eternal life is knowing God.

That's not the question, and this does not answer the question.

It seems you're not willing to cut to the chase and face the answer to the question, since any answer different from what Jesus promised will EXPOSE the truth about your view

 

[JLB]

This is no answer. It seems there is a strong reluctance to answer the question.

I asked you to provide the scripture that your question arises from.

I gave you examples from scripture as to what the biblical definition of eternal life is as well as the requirement for eternal life.

Here is is again.

Knowing Him is eternal life.

Those who claim to know him yet do not obey Him are liars.

I will only discuss the actual language from the scriptures.

I will not discuss redefined meanings of eternal life or made made requirements for eternal life.

Those who trust, commit and obey Him will inherit eternal life.

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

And again

For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:3-7

• we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

• heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked you to provide the scripture that your question arises from.

John 10:28.

Now, please answer the question.

 

[JLB]

John 10:28.

Now, please answer the question.

What does John 10:28 say?

Ask your question from what the scripture says, not what it doesn't say.

John 10:28 is the result of meeting the condition for eternal life.

John 10:28 "doesn't say" what the condition for eternal life is.

John 10:27 says those who obey His message, His voice, His commandments
and know Him...

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

• Which is the same thing, this same John says in 1 John 2:3

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3

Wherever you look in the New Testament, whether Jesus or Paul or John... you will find this principle associated with those who will be given eternal life on that Day when He comes to reward those who are faithful, as well as those who are not faithful.

He will judge each person according to their deeds:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

• he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life

Hear means hearken, listen with the intent of doing what is heard, and believe means trust, commit and obey.

The context:

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• The condition: those who have done good
• The result: to the resurrection of life

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

• The condition: hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. [hearken to do what He says]
• The result: I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6

• by this we know that we know Him = eternal life - if we keep His commandments.

• The condition: do what He says, obey Him, hearken to His Voice
• The result: knowing Him; eternal life

Principle from scripture: Sheep who do not hearken to the Sheppard, but wander from the Truth, become lost.


Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.

• Lost Sheep:

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7


A sheep who wanders from the True Sheppard, has become lost.


Context:

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them

A sheep who becomes lost because it does not hear, hearken to do what the Sheppard says, it as a sinner in need of repentance.

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren; James is writing to the Church and addressing brethren.
• if anyone among you wanders from the truth; again anyone among you refers to Christian brothers.
  
• wanders from the truth; Jesus Christ is the Truth.
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.


JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

The definition of eternal life is knowing God.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

This is why the debate rages. Many don't get to know their Lord and Savior after salvation and question their eternal life.

If we KNOW Him......... His character, virtue, integrity(His Word/doctrines.....our faith). Loss of salvation gets thrown out the door.

Eternal life is SOLID and UNMOVABLE and IRREVOCABLE . Romans 11:29........salvation and our eternal life is unquestionable in our minds if we KNOW Him.

If we don't get to know Him after salvation..........fear, worry and doubt WILL set in.

 

[FreeGrace]

What does John 10:28 say?

Ask your question from what the scripture says, not what it doesn't say.

This is just another stall technique. You are free to read the verse yourself and then answer my question.

John 10:28 is the result of meeting the condition for eternal life.

John 10:28 "doesn't say" what the condition for eternal life is.

None of this is material to my question.

John 10:27 says those who obey His message, His voice, His commandments
and know Him...

This is immaterial to my question.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

• Which is the same thing, this same John says in 1 John 2:3

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3

Wherever you look in the New Testament, whether Jesus or Paul or John... you will find this principle associated with those who will be given eternal life on that Day when He comes to reward those who are faithful, as well as those who are not faithful.

He will judge each person according to their deeds:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

• he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life

Hear means hearken, listen with the intent of doing what is heard, and believe means trust, commit and obey.

The context:

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• The condition: those who have done good
• The result: to the resurrection of life

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

• The condition: hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. [hearken to do what He says]
• The result: I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6

• by this we know that we know Him = eternal life - if we keep His commandments.

• The condition: do what He says, obey Him, hearken to His Voice
• The result: knowing Him; eternal life

Principle from scripture: Sheep who do not hearken to the Sheppard, but wander from the Truth, become lost.

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.

• Lost Sheep:

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7
A sheep who wanders from the True Sheppard, has become lost.

Context:
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them

A sheep who becomes lost because it does not hear, hearken to do what the Sheppard says, it as a sinner in need of repentance.
Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren; James is writing to the Church and addressing brethren.
• if anyone among you wanders from the truth; again anyone among you refers to Christian brothers.
  
• wanders from the truth; Jesus Christ is the Truth.
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;

• I've never seen such tap dancing to a simple "yes or no" question.

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.
JLB

OK, finally, an answer. But much more wordy than the simple "yes" that would have been more clear.

So, you're admitting that a Christian "can indeed become lost" by "blah blah blah".

So, your view is that there ARE conditions for a Christian to never perish.

Yet, Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS for those He gives eternal life.

It is apparent that your view is in direct conflict with the very straightforward promise of Jesus for those He gives eternal life.

He said: "I give them eternal life."

Then He said: "and they shall never perish."

Your view is the exact opposite of what He promises.

Where are His conditions within v.28? No where to be found. Because there are NONE.

He gives eternal life. And the result is that "they", the recipients of His gift of eternal life, is that they shall never perish.

This is as straightforward as it gets.

You've added conditions to where Jesus didn't. It's that simple.

And your view does not agree with what Jesus promised.

Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

Your view is that those He gives eternal life CAN perish.

Your view is in DIRECT OPPOSITION to the clear promise of John 10:28.

How can anyone claim to believe what Jesus says when they don't believe what Jesus says?

 

[JLB]

This is just another stall technique. You are free to read the verse yourself and then answer my question.

I will only address a post with scripture, and discuss what the scripture says, not what your opinion says.

None of this is material to my question.

Post the scripture you are referring to and ask a question, based on what the scripture says, not part of the scripture.

I've never seen such tap dancing to a simple "yes or no" question.

No scripture here. I have given the principles by which eternal life is given, from the language of the scriptures from 3 different New Testament writers.

So, it's not tap dancing, it is the truth.

Stating your opinion, and refusing to post a scripture, would be how false doctrine is promoted among God's people.


Here is it again.

The condition for receiving eternal life. After those conditions are met, then eternal life will be given in which the one who inherits eternal life will never perish.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

• he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life

Hear means hearken, listen with the intent of doing what is heard, and believe means trust, commit and obey.

The context:

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• The condition: those who have done good
• The result: to the resurrection of life

OK, finally, an answer. But much more wordy than the simple "yes" that would have been more clear.

So, you're admitting that a Christian "can indeed become lost" by "blah blah blah".

So, your view is that there ARE conditions for a Christian to never perish.

Yet, Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS for those He gives eternal life.

This is a Christian site and promoting Universalism is not a Christian doctrine.


Here is the conditions for receiving eternal life.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

• he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life

Hear means hearken, listen with the intent of doing what is heard, and believe means trust, commit and obey.

The context:

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• The condition: those who have done good
• The result: to the resurrection of life

JLB

 

[JLB]

This is why the debate rages. Many don't get to know their Lord and Savior after salvation and question their eternal life.

If we KNOW Him......... His character, virtue, integrity(His Word/doctrines.....our faith). Loss of salvation gets thrown out the door.

No scripture here.

Eternal life is SOLID and UNMOVABLE and IRREVOCABLE . Romans 11:29........salvation and our eternal life is unquestionable in our minds if we KNOW Him.

If we don't get to know Him after salvation..........fear, worry and doubt WILL set in.

Romans 11:29 doesn't even mention eternal life, which of course is why you won't post the scripture, but only a reference to tag your opinion.

Here let me post Romans 11:29

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:28-29

No mention of eternal life here.



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

What man (or men) get to decide for everyone else as to what is essential and what is not essential?

Qualified men.
Qualified man determined that the following is essential to Christian faith and practice:
I believe in one God, The Father Almighty,
creator of heaven and earth and of all that is seen and unseen.
I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light, true God from true God,
Begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father
Through Him all things were made.

For us men and our salvation he came down from heaven:
By the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilot;
He suffered and died and was buried.

On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures;
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead
And his kingdom will never end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
Who proceeds from the Father.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church.
I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and life ever lasting.

 

[FreeGrace]

I will only address a post with scripture, and discuss what the scripture says, not what your opinion says.

What's this all about? You've already answered the question in post #305.
"The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.
JLB"

A Christian is one who has been given eternal life. And your claim is that such a one "can indeed become lost by...blah, blah, blah."

All who claim that a believer can become lost (lose salvation) and ultimately end up in hell (perishing) have various lists of conditions to either meet or fail to meet in order to "never perish".

Yet, Jesus gave no list of conditions for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to never perish.

Recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH, according to Jesus.

So why would anyone claim that a saved person can perish? That is irrational.

I said this:
"OK, finally, an answer. But much more wordy than the simple "yes" that would have been more clear.

So, you're admitting that a Christian "can indeed become lost" by "blah blah blah".

So, your view is that there ARE conditions for a Christian to never perish.

Yet, Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS for those He gives eternal life."

This is a Christian site and promoting Universalism is not a Christian doctrine.

And, who's doing that here?

Where in my statement is there ANY suggestion of universalism? Apparently you're failed to read what I post, or just don't understand what I post. Regardless, there is NOTHING in my post about universalism.

The last statement: "Yet, Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS for those He gives eternal life" is regarding never perishing. The context was obviously about those given eternal life having no conditions in order to never perish.

In order for my statement to be related to universalism, I would have had to say something on the order of EVERYONE getting eternal life.

Which I did not. So your claim is as empty as the claim that any believer can perish.

Here is the conditions for receiving eternal life.

Are you not paying any attention? My question is beyond conditions for receiving eternal life. My question deals only with those who HAVE received eternal life.

The question concerns conditions for never perishing. Not for receiving eternal life.

Those who have actually been following this know that.

So please quit bringing up false issues.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

• he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life

Hear means hearken, listen with the intent of doing what is heard, and believe means trust, commit and obey.

The point of John 5:24 is that those who hear and believe HAVE eternal life. That MEANS the moment one believes in Christ they HAVE eternal life.

But it seems you disagree with that fact. Why is that?

The context:

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

The FACT remains; those who believe HAVE eternal life. Which means the moment one believes, they HAVE eternal life.

And so, WHEN one believes, they HAVE eternal life because Jesus said He gives eternal life to them. And the result of giving them eternal life, they shall never perish.

Yet, some continue to disbelieve that and claim that believers can perish, if certain conditions aren't met.

 

[JLB]

What's this all about? You've already answered the question in post #305.
"The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.

I agree.

So where is the eternal security in that?

A Christian is one who has been given eternal life. And your claim is that such a one "can indeed become lost by...blah, blah, blah."

A Christian is one who has the hope of inheriting eternal life.

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

• and inherit eternal life.

that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7

• we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life

Do you acknowledge these words, and understand that our hope is to inherit eternal life; Inherit the kingdom of God.


This occurs at His coming for those who are faithful; Those who are counted worthy to attain the resurrection of life.

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36


When we attain to the resurrection of life, at His coming, then we will be as the angels as sons of God, and can die no more.

• nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Can you at this present moment still die?


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"What's this all about? You've already answered the question in post #305."

What follows is from YOUR OWN post:
"The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death."

I agree.

Of course one agrees with what one posts.

So where is the eternal security in that?

Good grief! There's NONE in your opinion. But eternal security is IN what Jesus promised to recipients of eternal life.

Those He gives eternal life (that would be recipients of eternal life), shall never perish. John 10:28.

What is it about "shall never perish" that isn't understood?

A Christian is one who has the hope of inheriting eternal life.

OK, so in addition to not believing that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, what Jesus said about WHEN one possesses (HAS) eternal life isn't being believed either, from John 5:24. When one believes, they HAVE eternal life. That would include the moment one believes as well.

Since there are NO verses about receiving the gift some time (any time) AFTER believing.

Your views then do not accept what Jesus said in John 5:24 and 10:28.

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

Since lifestyle is mentioned in this verse, it cannot about receiving eternal life, or salvation would be by works, which is the religion of Pharisees. Maybe that's your religion, but that's not biblical.

When lifestyle is a condition when eternal life is mentioned, it refers to reward in eternity. Which is the obvious meaning here.

Do you acknowledge these words, and understand that our hope is to inherit eternal life; Inherit the kingdom of God.

I certainly do.

Now, do you acknowledge the words that Jesus said about WHEN one HAS eternal life, which is WHEN one believes, per John 5:24 AND that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, per John 10:28?

Can you at this present moment still die?
JLB

Only physically. Because Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. So I'll never perish.

I believe what Jesus said regarding recipients of eternal life. Do you?

 

[WIP]

Crowns.
Crown of life. Rev 2:10,James 1:12
Crown of righteousness. 2 Tim 4:8
Crown of Glory. 1 Pet 5:4 (for the pastor teacher who feeds the sheep through his gift and brings the sheep to spiritual maturity.)

Revelation 3:11 (ESV)
11 I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

Reign with Him. Rev 2:26
The order of the morning star. Rev 2:28

Uniform of honor. Rev 3:4
A new title and rank, an honors list so to speak. Rev 3:5, Rev 2:17
A eternal record of our advancement placed in Gods temple. Rev 3:12
Privilege of the tree of life and a place in the garden of God. Rev 2:7, Rev 22:14


Revelation 22:12 (ESV)
12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

2 John 8 (ESV)
8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.

1 Corinthians 3:13 (ESV)
13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done

2 John 8 (ESV)

8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the reward is the same for all that receive it. I'm not seeing various levels of reward, which would make sense because to do so would introduce the potential for jealousy and/or sadness.

 

[JLB]

OK, so in addition to not believing that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, what Jesus said about WHEN one possesses (HAS) eternal life isn't being believed either, from John 5:24.

When a person is joined to Christ through faith, then they are "in Christ", where eternal life is found.

As Long as they remain "in Christ", they remain connected to the eternal life which is "in Christ".

When He returns, and on the last Day, He will judge each person according to there deeds.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

and again

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Nothing you can ever say will somehow "erase" the fact that we all will appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life - Jesus
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good - Paul
• the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. - Paul

Doing good = Love
Doing evil = hate


We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
1 John 3:14


In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10

• Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God
• nor is he who does not love his brother.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the reward is the same for all that receive it. I'm not seeing various levels of reward, which would make sense because to do so would introduce the potential for jealousy and/or sadness.

Yes the crown of Life is a reference to eternal life, which is given to those who have been approved.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

• when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life

JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the reward is the same for all that receive it. I'm not seeing various levels of reward, which would make sense because to do so would introduce the potential for jealousy and/or sadness.

We are told to watch ourselves, and abide in Him to make sure we receive a FULL reward. Which means it is possible that some will not receive a full reward. And our crowns can be taken from us. Which means that some may not have crowns.

Some have soiled their Garments, but those who are enduring will be dressed in white. So some may not have a uniform of Glory.

There is not potential for jealousy or sadness in the eternal state.......our sin nature dies at our physical death.
Philippians 3:21 (NASB95)
21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Revelation 21:4 (NASB95)
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

I will have no problem saying " Yes,sir or yes ma'am" to the people who advanced farther than me. We will all be perfectly content and know that everything was put in it's proper order .........And it is not equal, Just perfectly fair to all in relation to how far we went with Christ in this life.

Luke 19~~15“When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done. 16“The first appeared, saying, ‘Master, your mina has made ten minas more.’ 17“And he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.’ 18“The second came, saying, ‘Your mina, master, has made five minas.’ 19“And he said to him also, ‘And you are to be over five cities.’

 

[FreeGrace]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the reward is the same for all that receive it. I'm not seeing various levels of reward, which would make sense because to do so would introduce the potential for jealousy and/or sadness.

That would only be true if believers still had their sin natures intact in eternity. But we can thank God we will be glorified and unable to sin.

 

[FreeGrace]

When a person is joined to Christ through faith, then they are "in Christ", where eternal life is found.

This is correct.

What is totally incorrect is the idea that one who has been "marked IN HIM with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit" can be removed from being in union with Christ. A totally FALSE idea. Not found in Scripture.

The opinion is not supported from Scripture.

As Long as they remain "in Christ", they remain connected to the eternal life which is "in Christ".

This notion conflicts directly with the promise Jesus made about recipients of eternal life; that they shall never perish.

Since all recipients shall never perish (John 10:28), how can any recipient not remain IN HIM?

Your view has no answer because there aren't any verses that speak of being severed from being in union with Christ.

All that is available are farming metaphors, which can easily be interpreted other ways. And leave Jesus' promise intact.

The claim that any recipient of eternal life can perish is rubbish. Those who disagree will face Jesus Himself at the Bema.

When He returns, and on the last Day, He will judge each person according to there deeds.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

One of the bad things done in the body is claiming that any recipient of eternal life can perish.

Nothing you can ever say will somehow "erase" the fact that we all will appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

I've never even tried to erase this wonderful FACT. And I would hate to be in anyone's shoes who keeps claiming that salvation can be lost.

Or that any recipient of eternal life can perish.

Haven't you noticed that none of the verses posted in your posts say that salvation can be lost?

So I have to wonder; why would anyone take such a view when no verses makes that claim?

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes the crown of Life is a reference to eternal life, which is given to those who have been approved.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

• when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life

JLB

So then, this seems to teach that eternal life is given to those who endure temptation? Is that correct?

Such a view is that of the Pharisees, who had a works salvation system. Which Jesus condemned.

Have you discarded John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 from your Bible?