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Eternal damnation

TimothyW said:
Maybe so. What does the Bible say in John 3:16?
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John 3:16New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

(Edited, ToS 2.1: "This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity (or declare that it is false) and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act." Obadiah)
 
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JLB said:
The second death is being cast into the lake of fire, not ceasing to exist.

This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."


have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
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Sorry, that is not what John 3:16 says. The question was "What does the Bible say in John 3:16?"
You got the wrong book entirely.
 
poetofparables said:
Yeah but I acknowledged my mistake and now desire to correct myself without Jesus telling me to do it.
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Therein may lie the problem. (see bold type above). It is not possible for us to save ourselves. As we've been saying all along, we are condemned already. No number of rights can undo the wrongs. Salvation is a gift from God and only available to those who repent and put their faith and trust in the Lord, Jesus. Cast your inhibitions aside, let go of your pride, acknowledge your sinful nature, and ask Him to forgive you and come into your life to be your Lord and Savior.
 
poetofparables said:
John 3:16New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Jesus is wrong, we all have eternal life, it's up to you how far you go with it.
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I'm sorry, I am a Jesus folllower. I do not accept your premise that Jesus is wrong.
 
poetofparables said:
Thats pretty cool, I can see how when you put in the imperfect it nullifies the statement. Thanks wip, you're a smart guy.
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TimothyW said:
One Holy Spirit to guide us into truth.
One Deceiver to lead us astray.
Which one do you think more people follow?
What did Jesus say about the wide road and the narrow road? Which road do you think has more people on it?
Even if 2.4 Billion people are wrong, that does not mean that the God of order is to blame for it. That is simply illogical. If you do not balance your checkbook properly, do you also blame God for that?
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tim-from-pa said:
the OP's premise is incorrect and the thread should be done. ...
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TimothyW said:
... When I read the Bible, I do not see adequate proof of eternal conscience torment (ECT).
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poetofparables said:
You're the first to point out you're argument this way, and I'm wondering if it's just an attempt to dodge the issue.
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Actually, as you can see from just two quotes above, I'm not the first person to point out in this thread that Eternal Suffering/Torment is presumed by your OP question and doesn't have adequate biblical proof to begin with.
poetofparables said:
Ok, I get it. Not proven true hey, what's not proven true, that the bible doesn't actually make the claim of a place or state of being, that will inflict torment on it's subjects or simply destroy them.
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I don't really understand exactly what it is you are asking with this question (or questions) of yours either (as worded above).

Plus, you say you "get it" (my point) then seem to be asking me what my point is. Which is rather odd, frankly.
 
TimothyW said:
John 3:16 says
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Who will not perish? Who will perish? Who will not have eternal life? Who will have eternal life? Does this say that ANYONE will have eternal life in hell being tormented alive forever?
Please answer each of these questions.
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Does this say that ANYONE will have eternal life in hell being tormented alive forever?
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It doesn't say eternal life, it says eternal torment which would be eternal death being punished forever in the everlasting fires.

It says

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:8


10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:10


Will the devil be tormented in the lake of fire forever and ever?


JLB
 
I feel this reminder is in order.

ToS 2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity (or declare that it is false) and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith.
 
chessman said:
Actually, as you can see from just two quotes above, I'm not the first person to point out in this thread that Eternal Suffering/Torment is presumed by your OP question and doesn't have adequate biblical proof to begin with.
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Chessman,

There's no adequate biblical proof of eternal torment? I think you just insulted a lot of christians.
 
chessman said:
Actually, as you can see from just two quotes above, I'm not the first person to point out in this thread that Eternal Suffering/Torment is presumed by your OP question and doesn't have adequate biblical proof to begin with.


I don't really understand exactly what it is you are asking with this question (or questions) of yours either (as worded above).

Plus, you say you "get it" (my point) then seem to be asking me what my point is. Which is rather odd, frankly.
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Actually thinking about you're view more, it's better off that you are right.
 
WIP said:
I feel this reminder is in order.

ToS 2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity (or declare that it is false) and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith.
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Ok.
 
poetofparables said:
I think you just insulted a lot of christians.
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How so?

It's possible I insulted their view of what finally happens to the lost, sure. But insulted them, no way.

It's certainly not my intention to insult a Christian (or non-Christian for that matter).

But as you can see. Not all Christians think that Eternal Suffering is the Biblical view of what happens to the lost after their ressurection and judgment, to begin with.

And I don't know any that think Jesus is still paying the price of eternal suffering now. Suffering, yes! Death, yes! Ressurection, yes!

Eternal suffering, no.
 
TimothyW said:
It is very clear, Who does it say is tormented? The devil, the ten headed beast, and the false prophet. Not EVERYONE, not all sinners.
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This isn't about "all sinners", but only those who's names are not in the book of life; meaning those who did not receive the gift of eternal life through faith in Christ. Rev 20:11-15 is also very clear. They all will be joining the beast, false prophet and satan and all his fallen angels. Forever and ever. Not unambiguous at all.

Jesus said that they will be destroyed. Do you not accept all of God's Word?
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Apparantly you don't. Forever and ever means exactly that.

If you look at all of God's word, it is clear that throughout scripture the fate of those that reject God is said to be destruction, perishing, being no more, and so on.
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Excuse me, but Scripture NO WHERE says that anyone will "be no more".

No, I believe what is written in the Bible and I reject what is NOT written in the Bible. The other side has not proven their case that God will torture the lost forever in hell when they die.
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OK, so you reject what IS written in Scripture: Rev 20:10-15.
 
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chessman said:
How so?

It's possible I insulted their view of what finnally happens to the lost, sure. But insulted them, no way.

It's certainly not my intention to insult a Christian (or non-Christian for that matter).

But as you can see. Not all Christians think that Eternal Suffering is the Biblical view of what happens to the lost after their ressurection and judgment, to begin with.

And I don't know any that think Jesus is still paying the price of eternal suffering now. Suffering, yes! Death, yes! Ressurection, yes!

Eternal suffering, no.
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Yeah I know that chessman, and my OP was a question to the eternal hell believers. Because I was one of them too.
 
FreeGrace said:
So then…the Bible does not have a view??? Really? Just plug in one's own thought? Not!
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Actually I think you are correct, the bible must have a view. Sorry for that statement, you're post woke me out of that faulty thinking.

Thanks
 
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