Eternal hell with new creation?

[T. E. Smith]

The new creation theme in the Bible does not seem to go with the notion of an eternal hell. Isaiah 55 and Romans 8 teach God's renewal of the world into perfection. It is said that in the future, Christ will be "all in all." It does not seem to make sense for God's new creation, then, to have an eternal torture chamber in it. In the new creation, God returns the world to its state before sin. How can Hell be part of that intent? How can Christ be all in all, with unbelievers tortured forever?

 

[jasonc]

In Christian teaching, that answer is fairly obvious. Let me give you another excerpt from that testimony of Hell I was sharing:

Jesus said, "Come, I want to show you something." At once we were about a half-mile up in the air, in the center of the belly of Hell, and in the center of the seventeen-mile-high block of cells. It felt like being in a well where neither top nor bottom could be seen because of the darkness. A yellow light began to fill the place. I held tight to Jesus' hand.

"Dear Lord," I asked, "why are we here?" All at once there came a hurricane-force wind and a mighty rushing sound. Great waves of fire began to race up the sides of the walls of cells, burning everything in its path. The flames reached inside each cell and brought pitiful cries of pain and distress. Though Jesus and I were not touched by the flames, fear welled up inside of me as I saw the souls of the lost running to the back of the small cells, trying to find a hiding place.

An evil sound began to rise from the left of us. I looked, and Satan was standing with his back to us, and he was all aflame. But he was not being burned; rather, it was he who caused the fire. Now he stood engulfed in the flames, enjoying the cries of these poor, lost souls. As Satan moved his arms, great balls of fire shot from him. Heartbreaking screams and great cries of pain came from the cells. The souls inside were being burned alive by this hotter than hot lake of fire, and yet they could not die. The demons, too, joined in the laughter as Satan went from cell to cell, torturing the lost.

Jesus said, "Satan feeds on evil. He glories in pain and suffering and gains power from it." I watched Satan as a reddish-yellow flame with brown edges grew all about him. A wild and gusty wind blew his garments which did not burn. The smell of burning flesh filled the air, and I realized anew that the horrors of Hell are real. Satan walked through the flames, and they could not burn him. Though I only saw his back, I could hear his evil laughter everywhere. I watched as Satan ascended in a cloud of smoke, taking the stream of fire up with him to the top of the belly of Hell. I listened as he turned and in a loud voice announced that unless all these souls worshiped him, he would give them a turn in the fun circle.

"No, please, Satan, we will worship you," they shouted in unison as they all began to bow in worship to the devil. And the more they worshiped him, the greater was his hunger for adoration. Louder and louder rang the sounds of praise until the rafters of Hell rang with the clamor.

Jesus said, "All these who occupy the cells of Hell heard the true gospel while they were alive on earth. Many times My salvation was offered to them. Many times My Spirit drew them, but they would not hearken or come unto Me to be saved." As Jesus was speaking, Satan was saying to his subjects, "Ha-ha, this is your kingdom-all the kingdom you will ever have. My kingdom covers all the earth and the world below." I heard him shout, "This is your life for eternity!" while cries of regret came from the burning cells.

Jesus said, "My salvation is free. Whoever will, let him come and be saved from this place of everlasting punishment. I will not cast him out. If you have been a witch or a warlock, even if you have a written agreement with the Devil, My power will break it, and My shed blood will save you. I will take the evil curse off your life and redeem you from Hell. Give me your heart that I may unchain you and set you free."(A Divine Revelation of Hell, P.98-101)

Now contrast this with the many testimonies of what Heaven is like from those being taken up in Spirit, which I will share in the next post.

I'm going to pose a problem

Those angels who rebelled are in chains waiting for the judgment .

The word for that is abyssos,it's the word where we get abyss from.dark ness and cold and damp.

Satan is tortured himself and his angels as well.
Revelation 20 verse 10.

See that's a problem as it says their torment is forever .the anticedent is the beast ,false prophet and Satan and his angels .those are tormented forever

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm going to pose a problem

Those angels who rebelled are in chains waiting for the judgment .

The word for that is abyssos,it's the word where we get abyss from.dark ness and cold and damp.

Satan is tortured himself and his angels as well.
Revelation 20 verse 10.

See that's a problem as it says their torment is forever .the anticedent is the beast ,false prophet and Satan and his angels .those are tormented forever

You are arguing that according to scripture Satan is already being tormented?

 

[hawkman]

Attempted rape and murder would of course be prosecuted by police like actual rape and murder. As for the rest, they would not be allowed, but police would not handle it.
I know Hell is biblically not just serving Satan because it also involves torture. Some love - serve me or suffer eternally.

This begs the question who would handle it ?

 

[jasonc]

You are arguing that according to scripture Satan is already being tormented?

He isn't in sheol and or Hades but upon the the earth .

Before the arrival of Jesus and until whenever Satan is bound is free to tempt .

He isn't in sheol or Hades.

Nor was he ever put there,the angel mentioned in Jude is the ones who rebelled during the flood .

 

[Hidden In Him]

He isn't in sheol and or Hades but upon the the earth .

Before the arrival of Jesus and until whenever Satan is bound is free to tempt .

He isn't in sheol or Hades.

Ah.

If you were inferring from the account I provided that she was saying Satan is now confined to Hell, no; that's not what she's saying. In other places in the same book she talks about witnessing demons talking to one another about their plans to go upon the earth and deceive people in certain ways.

This is it right here:

We arrived at the right leg of Hell. Looking ahead, I saw that we were on a pathway which was dry and burned. Screams filled the dirty air, and the stench of death was everywhere. The odor was sometimes so repugnant that it made me sick to my stomach. Everywhere was darkness except for the light which emanated from Christ and the flaming pits, which dotted the landscape as far as I could see.

All at once, demons of all kinds were going past us. Imps growled at us as they went by. Demon spirits of all sizes and shapes were talking to each other. Out ahead of us, a big demon was giving orders to small ones. We stopped to listen, and Jesus said, "There is also an invisible army of evil forces that we do not see here - demons such as evil spirits of sickness."

"Go!" the larger demon said to the smaller imps and devils. "Do many evil things. Break up homes and destroy families. Seduce weak Christians, and mis-instruct and mislead as many as you can. You shall have your reward when you return. Remember, you must be careful of those who have genuinely accepted Jesus as their Savior. They have the power to cast you out. Go now across the earth. I have lots of others up there already and still have others to send. Remember, we are servants of the prince of darkness and of the powers of the air." At that, the evil forms began to flee up and out of Hell. Doors in the top of the right leg of Hell opened and shut very fast to let them out. Also, some went up and out the funnel we had come down. (A Divine Revelation Of Hell, P.38-39)

She teaches the same thing regarding Satan. He enjoys tormenting the damned in Hell, but he travels to the earth as well continually. Other accounts say his kingdom is in second heaven, so he travels between all three realms on a continual basis. Job has him even in Third Heaven standing with the angels of God on at least one occasion.

 

[jasonc]

Ah.

If you were inferring from the account I provided that she was saying Satan is now confined to Hell, no; that's not what she's saying. In other places in the same book she talks about witnessing demons talking to one another about their plans to go upon the earth and deceive people in certain ways.

This is it right here:

We arrived at the right leg of Hell. Looking ahead, I saw that we were on a pathway which was dry and burned. Screams filled the dirty air, and the stench of death was everywhere. The odor was sometimes so repugnant that it made me sick to my stomach. Everywhere was darkness except for the light which emanated from Christ and the flaming pits, which dotted the landscape as far as I could see.

All at once, demons of all kinds were going past us. Imps growled at us as they went by. Demon spirits of all sizes and shapes were talking to each other. Out ahead of us, a big demon was giving orders to small ones. We stopped to listen, and Jesus said, "There is also an invisible army of evil forces that we do not see here - demons such as evil spirits of sickness."

"Go!" the larger demon said to the smaller imps and devils. "Do many evil things. Break up homes and destroy families. Seduce weak Christians, and mis-instruct and mislead as many as you can. You shall have your reward when you return. Remember, you must be careful of those who have genuinely accepted Jesus as their Savior. They have the power to cast you out. Go now across the earth. I have lots of others up there already and still have others to send. Remember, we are servants of the prince of darkness and of the powers of the air." At that, the evil forms began to flee up and out of Hell. Doors in the top of the right leg of Hell opened and shut very fast to let them out. Also, some went up and out the funnel we had come down. (A Divine Revelation Of Hell, P.38-39)

She teaches the same thing regarding Satan. He enjoys tormenting the damned in Hell, but he travels to the earth as well continually. Other accounts say his kingdom is in second heaven, so he travels between all three realms on a continual basis. Job has him even in Third Heaven stating with the angles of God on at least one occasion.

Where in the Bible does it say that Satan has power in sheol to torment .

Sheol has levels in Jewish thought


Yet where in the Bible is the lower levels is as such .

Hell ,aka Sheol was made for Satan but not for man.


If men go there for torment that is a punishment and well God set that up ,it's for Satan as well .

It's not Satan himself or demons rulling it and making it a place where he rules and torments man.

Satan is tormented In the end .

You can't use visions or the midrash as doctrine .when my grandparents died being Jewish I recited the kaddish .I read up on Jewish views on the place of Gehenna,Sheol and paradise(gan Eden)

There is a grey area.but my verse I posted said death gave the dead in him ,the sea and Sheol(Hades) these were judged .

If all the dead go to Hades who are lost ,then why the verse mentioned is listed as Hades ,etc giving the dead to be judged?

I'm not a buyer of soul sleep either but that is a problem verse .

In Jewish thought only the lower levels have fire and torment .
The Greek word for that is tartarus,the word torment came from that .

 

[T. E. Smith]

Ah.

If you were inferring from the account I provided that she was saying Satan is now confined to Hell, no; that's not what she's saying. In other places in the same book she talks about witnessing demons talking to one another about their plans to go upon the earth and deceive people in certain ways.

This is it right here:

We arrived at the right leg of Hell. Looking ahead, I saw that we were on a pathway which was dry and burned. Screams filled the dirty air, and the stench of death was everywhere. The odor was sometimes so repugnant that it made me sick to my stomach. Everywhere was darkness except for the light which emanated from Christ and the flaming pits, which dotted the landscape as far as I could see.

All at once, demons of all kinds were going past us. Imps growled at us as they went by. Demon spirits of all sizes and shapes were talking to each other. Out ahead of us, a big demon was giving orders to small ones. We stopped to listen, and Jesus said, "There is also an invisible army of evil forces that we do not see here - demons such as evil spirits of sickness."

"Go!" the larger demon said to the smaller imps and devils. "Do many evil things. Break up homes and destroy families. Seduce weak Christians, and mis-instruct and mislead as many as you can. You shall have your reward when you return. Remember, you must be careful of those who have genuinely accepted Jesus as their Savior. They have the power to cast you out. Go now across the earth. I have lots of others up there already and still have others to send. Remember, we are servants of the prince of darkness and of the powers of the air." At that, the evil forms began to flee up and out of Hell. Doors in the top of the right leg of Hell opened and shut very fast to let them out. Also, some went up and out the funnel we had come down. (A Divine Revelation Of Hell, P.38-39)

She teaches the same thing regarding Satan. He enjoys tormenting the damned in Hell, but he travels to the earth as well continually. Other accounts say his kingdom is in second heaven, so he travels between all three realms on a continual basis. Job has him even in Third Heaven standing with the angels of God on at least one occasion.

How ironic that Christians will write dark and demonic narratives like this one and then falsely accuse me of practicing the occult and worshipping Satan.

 

[jasonc]

I don't see it as that just well unsupported. I have bought that view .I don't deny eternal torment but there isn't much on how it goes .

Levels I can't find that .in Jewish thought based on job and a few others they make a case but that is a type of purgatory.

Jesus speaks of it's too late at death and nullifies a purgatory . As far as levels of torment ,that may be but it's not Satan doing it as each mention of the pit(Sheol) it's the lowest part and that is the fire level of torment .

In the account of Luke 16 ,in Hades a man Is tormented ,another is with Abraham .

This is a thought the Jews had with sheol,one level for the righteous ,the other for the wicked .it's not actually the final judgment as well there wouldn't be any chance for the living .the judgment would have come .

I simply see that type of Sheol .in any case I can't find all the dead being tormented by Satan . The Gehenna account by the Jews is akin to Sheol .they called ginhimmon .oral sage tradition .Jesus seems to say yes part of that is right .

Yet nothing about souls refusing Jesus being tormented by Satan there or in the lake of fire after the judgement

 

[Hidden In Him]

In Jewish thought only the lower levels have fire and torment .

I agree with Jewish thought on there being a divide in Sheol between Hell (the realm of the damned) and Paradise, where the OT saints resided until the resurrection of Christ. But then so does she. As one of the previous quotes I provided stated:

We went again to the belly of Hell and began to walk toward a small opening. I turned to look where we were entering and found that we were on a ledge beside a cell in the center of Hell. We stopped in front of a cell in which was a beautiful woman. Over the top of the cell were the letters "B.C."

I heard the woman say, "Lord, I knew you would come someday. Please let me out of this place of torment." She was dressed in the clothes of an ancient era, and she was very beautiful. I knew that .I she had been here for many centuries but could not die. Her soul was in torment. She began to pull at the bars and cry.

Softly Jesus said, "Peace, be still." He spoke to her with sadness in His voice. "Woman, you know why you are here." "Yes," she said, "but I can change. I remember, when You let all those others out of Paradise. I remember Your words of salvation. I will be good now," she cried, "and I will serve You." She clenched the bars of the cell in her tiny fists and began to scream, "Let me out! Let me out!" (Divine Revelation Of Hell, Baxter, P.147-149)

This sort of encapsulates my position on visions and dreams. If they line up with scripture and bear witness with the Spirit of God within me, they pass the test of what I will consider to be a prophecy from God, and what the Spirit is saying to the churches. If they do not line up with scripture or the established doctrines of the early church, I discard them. But it's been my experience that they rarely do, at least not the ones God brings to my attention anyway.

 

[Hidden In Him]

How ironic that Christians will write dark and demonic narratives like this one and then falsely accuse me of practicing the occult and worshipping Satan.

Yes, but Jesus also spoke of it being better to pluck one's eye out than be cast into Hell, where their worm will not die and their fire will not be quenched, which is only one of many teachings of His you would likely call "dark and demonic narratives" as well.

So in effect, you are villianizing the Lord Jesus Christ and calling Him demonic, which is why many Christians would say you serve Satan with your words.

 

[jasonc]

I agree with Jewish thought on there being a divide in Sheol between Hell (the realm of the damned) and Paradise, where the OT saints resided until the resurrection of Christ. But then so does she. As one of the previous quotes I provided stated:

We went again to the belly of Hell and began to walk toward a small opening. I turned to look where we were entering and found that we were on a ledge beside a cell in the center of Hell. We stopped in front of a cell in which was a beautiful woman. Over the top of the cell were the letters "B.C."

I heard the woman say, "Lord, I knew you would come someday. Please let me out of this place of torment." She was dressed in the clothes of an ancient era, and she was very beautiful. I knew that .I she had been here for many centuries but could not die. Her soul was in torment. She began to pull at the bars and cry.

Softly Jesus said, "Peace, be still." He spoke to her with sadness in His voice. "Woman, you know why you are here." "Yes," she said, "but I can change. I remember, when You let all those others out of Paradise. I remember Your words of salvation. I will be good now," she cried, "and I will serve You." She clenched the bars of the cell in her tiny fists and began to scream, "Let me out! Let me out!" (Divine Revelation Of Hell, Baxter, P.147-149)

This sort of encapsulates my position on visions and dreams. If they line up with scripture and bear witness with the Spirit of God within me, they pass the test of what I will consider to be a prophecy from God, and what the Spirit is saying to the churches. If they do not line up with scripture or the established doctrines of the early church, I discard them. But it's been my experience that they rarely do, at least not the ones God brings to my attention anyway.

Your avoiding the point .

Where is it that in the Bible that Satan is allowed to rule Sheol and he himself unaffected by the fires of Sheol and well it's also there the Bible says Satan is cast into it as judgement.

Satan is the one who torments where ?

 

[jasonc]

Your avoiding the point .

Where is it that in the Bible that Satan is allowed to rule Sheol and he himself unaffected by the fires of Sheol and well it's also there the Bible says Satan is cast into it as judgement.

Satan is the one who torments where ?

And in sheol there is a level for the wicked and righteous both are in Sheol .

The idea of paradise is gan Eden ,that's. Not considered the dwelling place of God but the garden itself in a spirit form with gates to Sheol that the serpent can tempt you to leave .

Jews don't call Satan the serpent .that's a different topic

 

[Hidden In Him]

Your avoiding the point .

Where is it that in the Bible that Satan is allowed to rule Sheol and he himself unaffected by the fires of Sheol and well it's also there the Bible says Satan is cast into it as judgement.

Satan is the one who torments where ?

If damned souls go to Hell and Satan and demons are present, you don't think they will torment them? We are made in the image of God, and Satan hates God. Scripture says that a legion of demons tormented the Gaderene, and that was in this life. If they torment souls on earth, why will they not torment them in Hell?

 

[jasonc]

Thats even worse

The lake of fire and Gehenna are literal places that are used to describe what God does to the unjust .

The idea of brim stone and sulfur is from the dead sea .it's known to enjoy sulfur fumes which will catch fire at a rare times and was more common then ,no living fish in the dead sea,it's smells horrid ,and the burning is not where you want to be .

Gehenna was a garbage dump Aka valley of himmon where Solomon offered to Molech .it is also where the trash was burned and it never went out as they feed it .this image of that .I have been near burn pits and it's not good for your health .Satan doesnt generate fire .in both Greek myths ,close to the idea of Sheol .the fire itself is what is tormenting you .both Sheol and Hades in the Greek classics have the idea of a faded person in smoking dark cave with fire for light and torments .in Greek thought Hades the God is who torments you and you can't leave as they have that three dogs who guard the elosian fields

The translation from Sheol to Hades requires knowledge of Greek myths.its the closest word .

In Judaism hasatan( Satan) is a title ,not a person but the title of one who opposed God .it's not the name of him .messanic Jews see it that way .



..see

If damned souls go to Hell and Satan and demons are present, you don't think they will torment them? We are made in the image of God, and Satan hates God. Scripture says that a legion of demons tormented the Gaderene, and that was in this life. If they toment souls on earth, why will they not torment them in Hell?

Nope they are tormented

You visions mentions Satan casting fire .uhm no

.1.satan is bound in the abyss to be let loose one last time
2.
At that point he does and is judged and is cast with death and Sheol into the lake of fire and along with the dead are tormented as listed with and he and his angels were cast into the lake of fire and their torment was forever .
Revelation 20 verse 20

 

[Hidden In Him]

.1.satan is bound in the abyss to be let loose one last time

We'd better back up. So you believe Satan is already bound in the abyss awaiting judgment? What do you base this belief on?

 

[jasonc]

We'd better back up. So you believe Satan is already bound in the abyss awaiting judgment? What do you base this belief on?

Nope .I said at the time of the millennium.
I quoted revelation 20.the abyss is made for him .

Context .

Satan isn't drifting to Sheol to torment and gathering souls to torment .

No.he is roving to tempt to take souls with him because he hates man and knows God is against that and allows it .

Satan was cast out of heaven and is allowed to accuse us before God .
He isn't in sheol to rule over it .

 

[Hidden In Him]

Nope .I said at the time of the millennium.
I quoted revelation 20.the abyss is made for him .

Alright, then we are in agreement here.

Satan isn't drifting to Sheol to torment and gathering souls to torment .

He isn't in sheol to rule over it .

Then the question becomes, on what scriptures do you base the notion that Satan cannot enter Hell now?

 

[Hopeful]

And in sheol there is a level for the wicked and righteous both are in Sheol .

The idea of paradise is gan Eden ,that's. Not considered the dwelling place of God but the garden itself in a spirit form with gates to Sheol that the serpent can tempt you to leave .

Jews don't call Satan the serpent .that's a different topic

Why would a righteous man be in your sheol?

 

[Hidden In Him]

In Judaism hasatan( Satan) is a title ,not a person but the title of one who opposed God .it's not the name of him .messanic Jews see it that way .

The New Testament writers were referring to a specific entity.

 

[jasonc]

I can. Ask if you die ,the judgment happens then in the past ?

Alright, then we are in agreement here.



Then the question becomes, on what scriptures do you base the notion that Satan cannot enter Hell now?

Because He wouldn't go there when it's gonna torment him.

The idea of gehemna is that it is a prison for him.
He can't leave it .it's where he goes as God cast him.

Death and Sheol are cast there .

How does Hades get burned by a literal fire ?
Hint they don't it's a concept of the early culture of something that they have a little ability to stop.

We know fires aren't the same .
Wood fires aren't as intense as metallic fires and chemical fires require a. Halogen extinguisher as does electric fires.

Flesh combusts at least then 500 degrees .

There are fires that burn much ,much higher then that .
Metallic fires do . electric fires burn at 30000 degrees.you ain't putting that out with water .

I have seen steel smelder for days after being ignited by jp 8 .nasty smell that stuff