Eternal hell with new creation?

[T. E. Smith]

The new creation theme in the Bible does not seem to go with the notion of an eternal hell. Isaiah 55 and Romans 8 teach God's renewal of the world into perfection. It is said that in the future, Christ will be "all in all." It does not seem to make sense for God's new creation, then, to have an eternal torture chamber in it. In the new creation, God returns the world to its state before sin. How can Hell be part of that intent? How can Christ be all in all, with unbelievers tortured forever?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I dislike it too. I have two thoughts. Either they don’t really think much about their faith but just take words or teaching they hear with the attached verse that supposedly backs it up or they are hiding behind scripture and don’t want to think at all. There are those who assume if you quote a Bible verse, any of them, and that will shut the opposite up out of respect. Sometimes I get the feeling they throw out a bunch of verses and run quick for cover. They don’t stand by them.

Good morning, Dorothy Mae.

Out of curiosity, why were you quoting me here?

God bless,
- H

 

[Edward]

No ,it's not .

Hades ,doesn't hold all the dead

It not said.
The sea gave up it's dead ,death gave dead in him and Hades .these three have the dead .only one is more specific on having torture .the sea and the death don't .


That a question I will ask my pastor in Sheol .he is fluent in Hebrew and would get that term

It's npt all the dead. Just the condemned dead.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Don't think I'm saying this resentfully because I am not, but when you say Jesus sounds morbid and almost gleeful when talking about the suffering of others, trust me; you are willfully serving the Devil in doing so - not some philosophical concept, but Satan himself - when you say such things.

I don't serve what I don't even believe exists.

All through the account I gave you, the Lord is consistently depicted as feeling great sorrow for those who rejected Life in favor of death and Hell:

Jesus appeared to me again and said, "Tonight we are going into the right leg of hell, My child. Don't be frightened, for I love you and I am with you." The face of the Lord was sorrowful, and His eyes were filled with great tenderness and deep love. Though those in Hell were forever lost, I knew that He still loved them and would for all eternity. "My child," He said, "God, our Father, gave each one of us a will so that we could choose whether we would serve Him or Satan. You see, God did not make Hell for His people. Satan deceives many into following him, but Hell was made for Satan and his angels. It is not My desire, nor that of My Father, that anyone should perish." Tears of compassion ran down Jesus' cheeks. (A Divine Revelation of Hell, P. 37-38)

On our way to the tunnel, we walked on past the flaming pits with the cries and moans of the damned ringing in my ears. Many called out to Jesus as we went by. Others tried to climb out of the pits of fire in order to reach Him, but could not. Sorrow was always upon Jesus' face as we walked. (Ibid, P.63)

I heard a woman say, "Lord, I knew you would come someday"... She began to pull at the bars and cry. Softly Jesus said, "Peace, be still." He spoke to her with sadness in His voice... "You knew on earth what your end would be. Moses gave you the law, and you heard it. But instead of obeying My law, you chose to be an instrument in the hands of Satan, a soothsayer and a witch. You even taught the art of witchcraft. You loved darkness rather than light, and your deeds were evil. If you had repented with your heart, My Father would have forgiven you. But now, it is too late." With sorrow and great pity in our hearts, we walked away. (Ibid, P.149)

The presence of the words "It is not My desire, nor that of My Father, that anyone should perish" indicate clearly to me that this book is an invention of a believer using biblical language; whether she hallucinated it or intentionally made it up I don't know. As for the witchcraft story, that's connived too, some sort of attempt to explain the condemnations of witchcraft in the Tanakh and NT.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't serve what I don't even believe exists.

That's just it. You do, despite assuming he doesn't.

The presence of the words "It is not My desire, nor that of My Father, that anyone should perish" indicate clearly to me that this book is an invention of a believer using biblical language

Ok, don't take this wrong. As they go, you seem intelligent enough. But this post is making me laugh, Lol, because it's not even an argument. But I'm not going to belabor the point. Safe to say we are just diametrically opposed when it comes to the matter of religion is all, unfortunately.

 

[T. E. Smith]

That's just it. You do, despite assuming he doesn't.

No, I don't, lol. I serve no one and nothing, let alone a non-existent being. (A being which you believe in and which I don't believe in.)

Ok, don't take this wrong. As they go, you seem intelligent enough. But this post is making me laugh, Lol, because it's not even an argument. But I'm not going to belabor the point. Safe to say we are just diametrically opposed when it comes to the matter of religion is all, unfortunately.

Christians when they recount "visions" or "revelations" that they had will regularly take snippets from the Bible and pretend that God has just said those things to them. I've heard many of them from people standing up at my church and from my own relatives who live in the house. It's very easy to spot this sort of thing.

 

[jasonc]

It's npt all the dead. Just the condemned dead.

You can argue that .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Good morning, Dorothy Mae.

Out of curiosity, why were you quoting me here?

God bless,
- H

Because I am on my mobile phone and curious things happen. My mistake. Please disregard. You were not in my thoughts when I was writing. Thanks very much for asking. You could have been irritated and you weren’t. Kudos for you!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Because I am on my mobile phone and curious things happen. My mistake. Please disregard. You were not in my thoughts when I was writing. Thanks very much for asking.

Lol. Yeah, that's why I stick with my trusty 21.5" iMac. At this age, there's a few Bibles in my possession that I can barely read without glasses.

But this computer has nice BIG print, especially at this site, Lol.

 

[Butch5]

Where do you get the idea that God returns the world to its state before sun?

It's the whole theme of the Bible. The problem we have is that so much error has been taught over the centuries that the true teaching of Scripture has been lost and the church has clung to the Greek hope. Note Peter's words,

Acts 3:19–21 (KJV 1900): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Here Peter says that God spoke of the restoration of all things, through the prophets, since the world began. All of the prophets spoke of the restoration of the creation. I'm actually teaching a Bible study on this at the moment.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, they answer all the questions, but they are not the answers you want to hear.

Untrue. But it easier to write something against my character than really answer why you think your quotes answer the question.

So, if we disagree it does not mean I have no understanding of the questioned asked, nor does it mean I have no understanding of what has already been written.

Then you need to address why you think the quotes you present answer the question as more than one of us see that they don’t. It’s not that we disagree. It’s that you won’t really discuss the matter but think quoting some verse ends the discussion.

If I do not understand the question I will ask for clarity.

It’s possible you don’t see that you don’t understand.

I don't believe in what Preterist teach, but I do not condemn you for how you believe and not backing yourself up with scripture in what you say, so I would appreciate it if you would not condemn me for what I believe as I share the scriptures with others.

I can give you scriptures for my position but you won’t be able to give an intellectually sound answer. Jesus said over and over in Revelation that the events described would happen immediately. Your futurist position has no answer for that. He said that the purpose of the book was that his servants would understand. Futurists, like you, have to ignore that one. Jesus said that generation would not end until the events he prophesied happened. All of these you futurists must ignore.

I know you have a problem with me posting scripture for everything I say and I would be a fool not to do so. A good teacher teaches from the text book and not apart from it. I don't quote what others say, but only that of what has already been written. Jesus was/is the word of God before the foundation of the world and did not have to write the scriptures as He is the scriptures as the Apostles who wrote the letters to the churches where they traveled to witnessed and testified of the teachings of Christ for all the world to learn of Him. Man put these letters into a book and called it the New Testament of Christ Jesus. What I quote are the very words of Christ. Sorry you have such a problem with that.

Wow, that’s a put down if ever I read one.

We can move on. We have a problem with you throwing out scripture that does not address the question and refusing to back it up.

I, btw, question what you write, not your character. You don’t question what I write, just my character. I do use scripture but often naturally in the text, the same way the writers of the Bible often did. With 100 % certainty I can say you do not understand me, 100%.

But let’s move on.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's the whole theme of the Bible. The problem we have is that so much error has been taught over the centuries that the true teaching of Scripture has been lost and the church has clung to the Greek hope. Note Peter's words,

Acts 3:19–21 (KJV 1900): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Here Peter says that God spoke of the restoration of all things, through the prophets, since the world began. All of the prophets spoke of the restoration of the creation. I'm actually teaching a Bible study on this at the moment.

I’m always suspicious of claims that all of Christianity has been in error for 2000 years but now, the author alone, has found the truth and about to teach/publish it.

Wishing you all the best,
D

 

[T. E. Smith]

What I quote are the very words of Christ. Sorry you have such a problem with that.

Why do Christians regularly claim without explanation that their words are Christ's words? for_his_glory I do not think Dorothy Mae is denying the scriptural authority of those verses you quoted. She knows they are Christ's words. Why do you imply otherwise? What point are you trying to make?

 

[Edward]

You can argue that .

It has to be because for Believers, Absent from the body, present with the Lord.

 

[jasonc]

It has to be because for Believers, Absent from the body, present with the Lord.

My statement was in agreement.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Why do Christians regularly claim without explanation that their words are Christ's words? for_his_glory I do not think Dorothy Mae is denying the scriptural authority of those verses you quoted. She knows they are Christ's words. Why do you imply otherwise? What point are you trying to make?

This is my take, but I might be in error. Young people are not taught to reason in the US. They grow up into adulthood and cannot think. But they can feel as that takes no training. The church is so berift of people who can reason, they’ve often decided reasoning is wrong or foolish. “Come let us reason together” becomes “come let us lob scriptures at each other and run for cover.” It’s really a great pity because one can love God with the mind but one has to use their mind to do this. Reading and quoting isn’t it.

The worst case thing the words are magic.

 

[Edward]

My statement was in agreement.

I know Brother. That was really so doubting thomas could read it.

 

[Edward]

This is my take, but I might be in error. Young people are not taught to reason in the US. They grow up into adulthood and cannot think. But they can feel as that takes no training. The church is so berift of people who can reason, they’ve often decided reasoning is wrong or foolish. “Come let us reason together” becomes “come let us lob scriptures at each other and run for cover.” It’s really a great pity because one can love God with the mind but one has to use their mind to do this. Reading and quoting isn’t it.

You sure got that right!!! Lol. They've taken critical thinking out of the schools. Today's kids don't know anything.

You ever watch those on the strret interviews, where they ask people questions? Jay Leno started it I think and a lot of people are doing it now.

Name 3 countries that border the United States?

Uh, Colorado, Texas and Massechusits!

Lol.

 

[for_his_glory]

We have a problem with you throwing out scripture that does not address the question and refusing to back it up.

Who is "we" as I only see you having this problem and always feel I am attacking your character, which I have never done, but do disagree with the doctrines you present, but you will not discuss them with me.

I have never had a problem with anyone in theses forums with me using scripture and discussing them in the past 11 years I have been a member here. I am done with your condescending attitude towards me. Have you ever asked me once why I believe the way I do, no, you would rather tell me I have no understanding or knowledge as you say I hide behind the scriptures I give. Sometimes just posting the actual scripture there one can find the answer to their question.

Why does it bother you so much that others do not agree with you? I present scripture in hopes of discussing them with others in how I understand them. I can admit when I am wrong, especially when someone else has more wisdom and knowledge than I have as we discuss the indifferences. You present very little to no scriptures, but yet expect everyone to believe what you say. I can only believe what is in scripture as well as all of need to do.

I hold no animosity towards you as you are a sister in Christ and I pray the best for you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why do Christians regularly claim without explanation that their words are Christ's words? for_his_glory I do not think Dorothy Mae is denying the scriptural authority of those verses you quoted. She knows they are Christ's words. Why do you imply otherwise? What point are you trying to make?

Christ words are the words we need to be speaking as we try to teach others. Without giving scripture and how we understand it then everything becomes that of one's own opinions, views and theories. I never claim my words are Christ words unless I prove they are with scripture.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Who is "we" as I only see you having this problem and always feel I am attacking your character, which I have never done, but do disagree with the doctrines you present, but you will not discuss them with me.

The other poster who asked why you posted a scripture that didn’t answer the question. I don’t “feel” you attack my character, you DO. But you are blind to this form of response. But if I let myself respond in kind, you would see it and delete my post. I’m happy to discuss my position but it’s pointless if you think lobbing a scripture end-of-discussion response is a discussion.

I have never had a problem with anyone in theses forums with me using scripture and discussing them in the past 11 years I have been a member here. I am done with your condescending attitude towards me.

Ah, you see, you feel I attack you. I don’t. I ask you to explain why you think those scriptures address the matter.

Have you ever asked me once why I believe the way I do, no, you would rather tell me I have no understanding or knowledge as you say I hide behind the scriptures I give. Sometimes just posting the actual scripture there one can find the answer to their question.

No it doesn’t. As I said, you think you can post a scripture and that’s the end of the discussion. No one is allowed to ask why you think that fits.

Why does it bother you so much that others do not agree with you?

Another attack that is untrue. It doesn’t bother me in the least. Couldn’t be more interesting.

I present scripture in hopes of discussing them with others in how I understand them. I can admit when I am wrong, especially when someone else has more wisdom and knowledge than I have as we discuss the indifferences. You present very little to no scriptures, but yet expect everyone to believe what you say. I can only believe what is in scripture as well as all of need to do.

When asked about scripture I give it. I also weave it into my writings without blinking lights.

I hold no animosity towards you as you are a sister in Christ and I pray the best for you.

I suspect you’re fooling yourself. No matter. I have no animosity towards anyone. But I’m passionate about truth.

I just wish you would see your own words more clearly.