Eternal Life

[dianegcook]

If I may ask..
In Matt.13:20-22 parable of the sower
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon (straightway, immediately) with joy receiveth it...
Wouldn't you think here that they were saved?

Yet..hath he not root in himself, but endureth for awhile, for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended..
Then some fell on thorns, it is he that heareth the word, and the cares of this world, choke the word, and he became unfruitful..

Matt.7:19
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire..

 

[netchaplain]

And, of course, there are the many passages of scripture which very explicitly demonstrate that eternal life can be lost. I've posted them multiple times. Every one of the OSAS folk ignore, distort, or dismiss them without fail

I know those passages that have the appearance of a doctrine opposing OSAS, but their contexts are mostly misunderstood.

 

[ezra]

1Jo 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Notice that John said, "that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."
He said that because those who believe have eternal life and those who do not believe do not have eternal life.
John thought it was necessary to tell them that they needed to CONTINUE TO BELIEVE.
He told them to continue because if the ceased to believe they would also cease to have eternal life.
If that wasn't a possibility then John would not have mentioned it.

so i should go to bed tonight worried about if i lost my salvation it does not say CONTINUE TO BELIEVE. it says that you may KNOW have knowledge a personal relation ship . it also has nothing to do with can or can we .it being secure in Christ... much like your marriage if your wife does not say i love you every 5 minuets. if she did not love you. she would be gone out the door. sunspot baby

 

[netchaplain]

If I may ask..
In Matt.13:20-22 parable of the sower
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon (straightway, immediately) with joy receiveth it...
Wouldn't you think here that they were saved?

Sis, I would suggest test-viewing the below Bible commentator (Gill) concerning these passages. Take your time because he's exhaustively thorough!

http://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=gill&b=40&c=13

 

[dianegcook]

Sis, I would suggest test-viewing the below Bible commentator (Gill) concerning these passages. Take your time because he's exhaustively thorough!

http://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=gill&b=40&c=13

Will do...

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

How hard is to not believe God? If we look at those that were delivered from Egyptian bondage only two believed God, Joshua and Caleb and they entered into the land of promise. Those that saw the plagues of Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea and the Egyptian army drowning, the manna from heaven and the quails when they complained about the angel's food, the opening up of the earth(the first earth quake) and swallowing of Korah, and many other things that God did. They still didn't believe. We are told in Hebrews 3:18-19 " And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not. So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." What is the rest that it is possible for us to enter? is not to cease from work for salvation and to completely rest in Christ. If can lose salvation, are we really resting in Christ?

Just as the Israelites were led by the pillar of fire by night and a pillar of cloud during the day, those that claim to be believers have a need to make sure what is believed is correct according to scripture. Eternal life only comes as a gift from God by believing, not by anything that we do or don't do. Scripture states those that believe have been given eternal life and nothing in heaven nor on earth can ever take that gift away. The old man has died and we have become a new creation in Christ Jesus. As far as I know, there is no one that has the power of resurrection but the triune God. He surely did not create us sinners; we are sinners because of Adam's transgression. Christ has paid the price of redemption and removed us from that slave market. We are kept by his power and in Revelation, he is the only one that has the power to open the title deed to earth: Revelation 5:1-5. If we have the power to undo what the Lamb slain has done, then how powerful is the God that we serve.

 

[netchaplain]

dirtfarmer here

How hard is to not believe God? If we look at those that were delivered from Egyptian bondage only two believed God, Joshua and Caleb and they entered into the land of promise. Those that saw the plagues of Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea and the Egyptian army drowning, the manna from heaven and the quails when they complained about the angel's food, the opening up of the earth(the first earth quake) and swallowing of Korah, and many other things that God did. They still didn't believe. We are told in Hebrews 3:18-19 " And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not. So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." What is the rest that it is possible for us to enter? is not to cease from work for salvation and to completely rest in Christ. If can lose salvation, are we really resting in Christ?

Just as the Israelites were led by the pillar of fire by night and a pillar of cloud during the day, those that claim to be believers have a need to make sure what is believed is correct according to scripture. Eternal life only comes as a gift from God by believing, not by anything that we do or don't do. Scripture states those that believe have been given eternal life and nothing in heaven nor on earth can ever take that gift away. The old man has died and we have become a new creation in Christ Jesus. As far as I know, there is no one that has the power of resurrection but the triune God. He surely did not create us sinners; we are sinners because of Adam's transgression. Christ has paid the price of redemption and removed us from that slave market. We are kept by his power and in Revelation, he is the only one that has the power to open the title deed to earth: Revelation 5:1-5. If we have the power to undo what the Lamb slain has done, then how powerful is the God that we serve.

Hi DF - Thanks for the involved reply and the encouragement of agreement concerning the subject of the thread, which subject (when eternal life is received) I believe is the primary basis for the foundation of all Christian spiritual growth truths in the faith.

Well presented in Scriptural documentation, from which all our opinions should derive!

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!

 

[JLB]

I John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The Greek tense is better said this way...

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.


Here with Context:

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13

To have or "partake of" the Son requires to:

• believe and to continue to believe.
• to have faith and to continue to have faith.
• to have the "substance" [confidence] of your salvation, and to continue to have the "substance" [confidence] of your salvation.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

Confidence here in the original, is the same word as rendered "substance", which is used in Hebrews 11:1.

We have salvation by faith, in Jesus Christ, which we will receive as the end result of our faith.

...receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

We must have the faith, which is the substance of our salvation that we are hoping for, and continue to have this faith, steadfast to the end, in order to receive the salvation of our souls, which we are hoping for.




JLB

 

[JLB]

If I may ask..
In Matt.13:20-22 parable of the sower
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon (straightway, immediately) with joy receiveth it...
Wouldn't you think here that they were saved?

Yet..hath he not root in himself, but endureth for awhile, for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended..
Then some fell on thorns, it is he that heareth the word, and the cares of this world, choke the word, and he became unfruitful..

Matt.7:19
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire..

Couldn't be any clearer.

 

[JLB]

What is the rest that it is possible for us to enter? is not to cease from work for salvation and to completely rest in Christ. If can lose salvation, are we really resting in Christ?

The rest that have yet to enter into is the rest that will come on the "seventh day", when Jesus returns to resurrect the dead and remove all the enemies, in which we will have immortal bodies that will never die, that no longer strives against our spirit in the lust of the flesh.

No continual striving with sin, or the devil or wicked people, but only to be with Him whom our soul longs for in peace.

Those who believe do enter that rest by faith, but when he comes, we will have received the reality of this hope.

3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
Hebrews 4:3-9

God is still working, and working through those who believe, that they may both desire and do His good pleasure... until that "seventh day", as typified by the weekly Sabbath.

• Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” John 10:32

• For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10

JLB

 

[ezra]

The Greek tense is better said this way...

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.


Here with Context:

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13

To have or "partake of" the Son requires to:

• believe and to continue to believe.
• to have faith and to continue to have faith.
• to have the "substance" [confidence] of your salvation, and to continue to have the "substance" [confidence] of your salvation.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

Confidence here in the original, is the same word as rendered "substance", which is used in Hebrews 11:1.

We have salvation by faith, in Jesus Christ, which we will receive as the end result of our faith.

...receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

We must have the faith, which is the substance of our salvation that we are hoping for, and continue to have this faith, steadfast to the end, in order to receive the salvation of our souls, which we are hoping for.




JLB

sigh* we have become so theology correct we have erased the true meaning.. if it says that we may know then if we know we will continue. we can not run the race looking on the sidelines or looking behind us. a true athlete focus is staying in the race . as Christians we are to focus on staying in the Christian race with Jesus the prize the author and finisher . we are so scared our type doctrine will not be represented. justified by faith not RELIGION

 

[JLB]

a true athlete focus is staying in the race

Yes, this point is made throughout the New Testament.

23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:23-27

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 2 Timothy 4:7

A person who is no longer in the race, because they no longer believe, certainly does not "finish the race" which they abandoned, nor do they receive what one who is faithful to finish the race, because they have "kept the faith", steadfast to the end.


JLB

 

[dianegcook]

Couldn't be any clearer.

 

[chessman]

A person who is no longer in the race, because they no longer believe, certainly does not "finish the race"

When is the race finished?

 

[JLB]

When is the race finished?

For the faithful or the one who falls away?

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. Hebrews 6:4-8

For the one who falls away , the race is over when they fall away, by departing from the living God.

For Paul, who lived the crucified life, and was led by the Spirit, it was when the Spirit "moved upon him to write" these words at the end of his life...I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

For the faithful believer, the race is over when the Spirit tells you it's over, whether it's just before they take your head, or it may be when the pull the plug on your respirator, or it may be "on the other side" when the angel escorts you to heaven, or when you hear these words from Him...Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Romans 8:16


6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. 2 Timothy 4:6-8



JLB

 

[chessman]

For Paul, who lived the crucified life, and was led by the Spirit, it was when the Spirit "moved upon him to write" these words at the end of his life...I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Did he write those words before or after his life ended?

 

[chessman]

When is the race finished?

For the faithful or the one who falls away?

For Paul.

For Paul, who lived the crucified life, and was led by the Spirit, it was when the Spirit "moved upon him to write" these words at the end of his life...I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Paul's life had not ended. Yet he said he'd finished the race. And lest you think he knew his death was immanent and his ministry was over, he told Timothy he still had ministry, studying and writing left to do:

2 Timothy 4:11-13 (LEB) Luke alone is with me. Take along Mark and bring him with you, because he is useful to me for ministry. But I have sent Tychicus to Ephesus. When you come, bring the cloak that I left behind in Troas with Carpus, and the scrolls, especially the parchments. ​

And you know what else he said???

2 Timothy 4:8 (LEB) Finally, the crown of righteousness is reserved for me, that the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but also to all who have loved his appearing. ​

How many folks who haved loved His appearing have their own crowns of righteousness reserved for them that the Lord will award them???

All of them!

The race is finished for all who have loved His appearing.

QED

 

[JLB]

For Paul.

For Paul, who lived the crucified life, and was led by the Spirit, it was when the Spirit "moved upon him to write" these words at the end of his life...I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Paul's life had not ended. Yet he said he'd finished the race. And lest you think he knew his death was immanent and his ministry was over, he told Timothy he still had ministry, studying and writing left to do:

Please post the scriptures where Paul said he had studying and writing left to do, and for how long.

Luke was a prolific writer who was used by the Holy Spirit, to write the Gospel of Luke and Acts.

Paul said Mark is useful to "him" for ministry, which is a reference to taking care of Paul, and his needs while imprisoned.

Only Luke is with me. Get Mark and bring him with you, for he is useful to me for ministry. 2 Timothy 4:11


Paul wrote these words knowing of his "departure", which is a reference to his death as a martyr, was coming soon.

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. 2 Timothy 4:6-8


This is the account from Foxes book of martyrs -


Paul, the apostle, who before was called Saul, after his great travail and unspeakable labors in promoting the Gospel of Christ, suffered also in this first persecution under Nero. Abdias, declareth that under his execution Nero sent two of his esquires, Ferega and Parthemius, to bring him word of his death. They, coming to Paul instructing the people, desired him to pray for them, that they might believe; who told them that shortly after they should believe and be baptized at His sepulcher. This done, the soldiers came and led him out of the city to the place of execution, where he, after his prayers made, gave his neck to the sword.



JLB

 

[ezra]

Did he write those words before or after his life ended?

really this is like beating a dead horse telling it to move. there is nothing in the Bible that say we can live how we want still make heaven. those who are disqualified was never in the race to start with. do i believe we can walk away and turn our back on God yes i do. do i believe it can keep us from heaven depends on who you ask. my self i do not want to find out do you?