Eternal Security of the Believer !

[francisdesales]

John 10:27-29

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Too bad you don't know if you are indeed one of those sheep...

We'll only know at the end of the "day" whether we were indeed following Christ, since many will say "Lord, Lord..." - and you know the rest...

Since we don't, we'll just have to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Wake up, your salvation is nearer than before!

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Your comments are not based on Jesus' teachings or Scripture, but on Eastern Mysticism and Hinduism! You teach err and comments like "God can still hold you responsible for a small sin" shows me that you have never understood what God has done about sin and how God views the redeemed, and how the legal imputation of Christ covers the sinner.

Are you saying God CANNOT hold someone responsible for a small sin? Yes or No.

Be careful what you presume about what God can or cannot do...

 

[Free]

Your comments are not based on Jesus' teachings or Scripture, but on Eastern Mysticism and Hinduism! You teach err and comments like "God can still hold you responsible for a small sin" shows me that you have never understood what God has done about sin and how God views the redeemed, and how the legal imputation of Christ covers the sinner.

Please don't presume to know what others "have never understood." Your position is one of many. The sooner you learn this, the better.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Too bad you don't know if you are indeed one of those sheep...

We'll only know at the end of the "day" whether we were indeed following Christ, since many will say "Lord, Lord..." - and you know the rest...

Since we don't, we'll just have to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Wake up, your salvation is nearer than before!

Regards

Your post is very disturbing and misleading!!! What you teach is Catholicism,not Scripture!

Firstly, do you believe we CANNOT KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE NOW? YES OR NO?

Secondly, that verse you refer to, notice it says "I NEVER KNEW YOU!". So that verse is not for born again believers who knew Jesus and Jesus knew them! But you never quoted the WHOLE VERSE and we both know why..it's so you can take it OUT OF CONTEXT to support your Catholic gospel and contradict the Bible gospel.

You are using verses out of context and misleadingly.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Are you saying God CANNOT hold someone responsible for a small sin? Yes or No.

Be careful what you presume about what God can or cannot do...

Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. SIN is not what will cause a person to be lost, it's their rejection of Jesus!

SIN was taken care off at Calvary and Jesus' sacrifice was COMPLETE and FINISHED, John 19:30.

This is not something they teach you in the RCC, it's only found in Scripture!!!

This is what the Bible says:

Hebrews 9:26 – He did away with sin on the Cross
Hebrews 9:28 - He took away the sin of the world at the Cross
Colossians 2:13 - He forgave all sins on the Cross – past present and future
Hebrews 1:3 – God cleansed all sins on the Cross
2 Cor 5:19 - God no longer counts the world’s sins against them
Hebrews 10:17-18 – God has forgiven all sins and forgotten them.
Micah 7:19 - God has thrown all our sins into the depths of the sea.

There is NO MORE ANY SIN PROBLEM that we need fixing and LEGALLY, those in Christ are viewed by the Father as JUSTIFIED, which means "JUST AS IF I HAD NEVER SINNED!"

As I said, this is not something they teach you in the RCC, you need to read the Bible to get to these truths.

 

[Webb]

TruthSeeker

Will you debate this on the debate forum?

 

[Free]

Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. SIN is not what will cause a person to be lost, it's their rejection of Jesus!

SIN was taken care off at Calvary and Jesus' sacrifice was COMPLETE and FINISHED, John 19:30.

This is not something they teach you in the RCC, it's only found in Scripture!!!

This is what the Bible says:

Hebrews 9:26 – He did away with sin on the Cross
Hebrews 9:28 - He took away the sin of the world at the Cross
Colossians 2:13 - He forgave all sins on the Cross – past present and future
Hebrews 1:3 – God cleansed all sins on the Cross
2 Cor 5:19 - God no longer counts the world’s sins against them
Hebrews 10:17-18 – God has forgiven all sins and forgotten them.
Micah 7:19 - God has thrown all our sins into the depths of the sea.

There is NO MORE ANY SIN PROBLEM that we need fixing and LEGALLY, those in Christ are viewed by the Father as JUSTIFIED, which means "JUST AS IF I HAD NEVER SINNED!"

As I said, this is not something they teach you in the RCC, you need to read the Bible to get to these truths.

Do not bring the RCC into this again nor suggest that anyone who disagrees with you isn't reading the Bible.

 

[westtexas]

Secondly, that verse you refer to, notice it says "I NEVER KNEW YOU!". So that verse is not for born again believers who knew Jesus and Jesus knew them! But you never quoted the WHOLE VERSE and we both know why..

Matt. 25:1-13
v.1 "ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom"
All 10 awaited the arrival of the bridegroom. What was the difference between these women? Were they saved? Were they unsaved?

At the end of the parable v. 12 "I know you not"
5 were allowed into the marriage and 5 were shut out. Why? I'd like to hear what you think.

Westtexas

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Matt. 25:1-13
v.1 "ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom"
All 10 awaited the arrival of the bridegroom. What was the difference between these women? Were they saved? Were they unsaved?

At the end of the parable v. 12 "I know you not"
5 were allowed into the marriage and 5 were shut out. Why? I'd like to hear what you think.

Westtexas

Those verses have nothing to do with the LOrd Lord verses Francis tried using wrongly earlier, because they say Jesus NEVER knew them! But once a person comes to Christ by faith, they are KNOWN to Jesus!

If you want to discuss the virgin verses, open a new thread.

 

[Webb]

TruthSeeker

Don't overlook post 166

 

[francisdesales]

Your post is very disturbing and misleading!!! What you teach is Catholicism,not Scripture!

LOL! Please cite the chapter and paragraph from the Catechism, if you think so. Otherwise, you are yet again bearing false witness. It is becoming pretty common with you...

Firstly, do you believe we CANNOT KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE NOW? YES OR NO?

That would take a more nuanced answer that is respectful towards the Biblical witness. I am not concerned about your need to fit theology on a bumper sticker...

I have already answered you in three separate posts.

Secondly, that verse you refer to, notice it says "I NEVER KNEW YOU!". So that verse is not for born again believers who knew Jesus and Jesus knew them!

Really? Let's talk about how that interpretation leads us to make another gaffe.

It seems that these charecters in Matthew 7 were able to do good and even perform miracles. IF you claim that Jesus never literally knew these men, please explain how they DID THEM? With their own powers? IN THE NAME OF JESUS, they performed miracles! And Jesus, Who is God, never knew about this. Sort of like when he asked "who touched my cloak" with the woman with the blood flow - he literally didn't know???

Your simplistic literalness leads you to take the stance that men can do good deeds without Jesus Christ, clearly at odds with Sacred Scriptures! Figures - theology by cliches is built upon sand.

The proper interpretation is NOT that Jesus literally never knew these men, but that they now act in such a way that it is AS IF God never knew them. AS IF. Formely righteous men who turn evil will have their righteous deeds "forgotten".

Example:

Ezekiel 18:24

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

This is an interesting quote, since it also answers, from the bible, that fantasy that one can KNOW that they will have eternal life, no matter what, in the future...

God doesn't literally "not know" anyone... Do you agree, yes or no?

But you never quoted the WHOLE VERSE and we both know why..it's so you can take it OUT OF CONTEXT to support your Catholic gospel and contradict the Bible gospel.

You are lost, aren't you; thus, the desperate bid... I didn't need to cite the entire verse, since I made my point by infering the entire context in citing the portion. Paul does the same thing in Scriptures when citing the Psalms...

I will try to educate you, but to receive any wisdom from other people on this site, you will have to act more humbly, since the arrogant are not open to receiving anything, to include God in their hearts.

Regards

 

[westtexas]

If you want to discuss the virgin verses, open a new thread.

I thought the discussion was about eternal security?

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

I thought the discussion was about eternal security?

Can a born again Christian have eternal security? Yes or No?

 

[westtexas]

Can a born again Christian have eternal security? Yes or No?

Does all your theology end with a question mark? Post 168 has some questions for you. I'd love to discuss your answers. You'll have to get a little more in-depth than YES or NO though.
Westtexas

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Does all your theology end with a question mark? Post 168 has some questions for you. I'd love to discuss your answers. You'll have to get a little more in-depth than YES or NO though.
Westtexas

Ok thank you for that...but now back on topic, please stop sidestepping my question.

Can a born again Christian have eternal security? Yes or No?

 

[westtexas]

Ok thank you for that

your welcome

 

[francisdesales]

Those verses have nothing to do with the LOrd Lord verses Francis tried using wrongly earlier, because they say Jesus NEVER knew them! But once a person comes to Christ by faith, they are KNOWN to Jesus!

If you want to discuss the virgin verses, open a new thread.

Are you saying that Jesus, who is God, doesn't know someone UNTIL THAT PERSON COMES TO HIM? Yes or NO???!!!

There is so much wrong in your statement, I don't know where to start...

First, you are stating that MAN comes to GOD!!! That contradicts at least a dozen verses in the NT!!!

Second, you are stating that God doesn't know the existence of another creature. One wonders HOW this person came into existence and "slid under God's radar"...

Third, as per your mode of operation, rather than think about an alternative interpretation and weigh in on its value, you automatically presume that anything that you state is infallible and is not open to be challenged.

And finally, WestTexas' "verses" do indeed touch on the matter at hand - supposed self-knowledge and worth for eternal salvation. Many people THINK that they are "saved for heaven", when in fact, they are not. Cue in the men of Matthew 7 or the virgins at the wedding feast... Some had oil and others didn't. "Oil" is seen as works of love. There are other such verses in the Gospels.

I have provided an alternative interpretation of matthew 7:21. It makes more sense of the Biblical witness of Who God is. Yours confuses Who God is by contradicting Scriptures. IF you can argue WHY I am wrong, then please do so. I tire of the endless proclamations without any backing.

Are you ABLE to provide an intelligent rebuttal to my post #171 or not? Or are you going to run and hide again?

Regards

 

[felix]

SIN is not what will cause a person to be lost, it's their rejection of Jesus!

(Jas 5:20) let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Rejection of Jesus Christ is a sin:
(John 15:22) "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.

So, it is 'sin' that cause a person to be lost.

SIN was taken care off at Calvary and Jesus' sacrifice was COMPLETE and FINISHED, John 19:30.

This is not something they teach you in the RCC, it's only found in Scripture!!!

This is what the Bible says:

Hebrews 9:26 – He did away with sin on the Cross
Hebrews 9:28 - He took away the sin of the world at the Cross
Colossians 2:13 - He forgave all sins on the Cross – past present and future
Hebrews 1:3 – God cleansed all sins on the Cross
2 Cor 5:19 - God no longer counts the world’s sins against them
Hebrews 10:17-18 – God has forgiven all sins and forgotten them.
Micah 7:19 - God has thrown all our sins into the depths of the sea.

There is NO MORE ANY SIN PROBLEM that we need fixing and LEGALLY, those in Christ are viewed by the Father as JUSTIFIED, which means "JUST AS IF I HAD NEVER SINNED!"

As I said, this is not something they teach you in the RCC, you need to read the Bible to get to these truths.

(Mark 11:26) "But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Sometimes, your sins that were 'taken care' may not be even forgiven unless you forgive others.

 

[childeye]

I believe there is a such thing as eternal security for the believer so long as that rests in God's foreknowledge. Please excuse the semantics but since we are all here debating such things wouldn't it be wise to be debating on the same terms? Sin is being lost not the cause of being lost. Iniquity through the knowledge of good and evil is the initiator of sin and vanity is the initiator of iniquity and a false image of god is the initiator of vanity. That's what it looks like to me. Semantics. Who really knows anything? Aren't we always believing we know? Or do we just know what we believe? Honesty cannot exist without God.

 

[Vic C.]

Ok thank you for that...but now back on topic, please stop sidestepping my question.

Can a born again Christian have eternal security? Yes or No?

If I answer the question, will you please post in a more civil manner? Geesh... enough of the patronizing and condescension already!


My answer is... yes!

totopic Please!