Deborah13
Member
Good scriptures, thanks farouk.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Good scriptures, thanks farouk.
Deborah13
Member
Lust in your heart = commited adultery in your heart = thou shall not commit adultery = breaking the Law
farouk
Member
Deborah: YW
And He does it all! He does all the saving, and He does all the keeping!
Blessings.
F
felix
Guest
Nope. None is there in the law. When does hate become murder in law? When does lust in heart became adultery in law? ... and so on. When did neighbors became enemies?
So, David should have loved Goliath instead of beheading him.
Not one which Christ taught in sermon on the mount is from the law.
F
felix
Guest
(Hebrews 7:25) Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
You can be saved only through Christ, not independently. If you don't have Christ on the day of Judgement, you cannot be saved.
(Jude 1:24) Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present [you] faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
Yes, He is able to keep you from stumbling. Stumbling is "unexpected" falling. Stumbling is not his own act of falling down but a result of some "external" trial/test or deception from false doctrines. This is what Christ guards him/her from.
There are several examples for stumbling like -Matthew 13:21, Matthew 26:33-35 which speaks about some stumbling at trials and tribulations.
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felix
Guest
Deborah: YW
And He does it all! He does all the saving, and He does all the keeping!
Blessings.
Yes, He does all saving and all keeping only to those who obey Him.
(Hebrews 5:9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
He is also an advocate only those who follow His commandments.
(1 John 2:1) My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
(1 John 2:2) And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
(1 John 2:3) Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
How ironic, obeying and keeping His commandments which the Bible speaks about are conveniently ignored.
F
felix
Guest
That is not what the law says. Not even close.
As I said, if the law was what Christ preached, then Israelites must have loved the Palestinians. Even today, every problem in middle-east must have solved because, the Israelites must have given the Palestinians "twice the land" they ask for instead of one, if they had followed Christ.
farouk
Member
We must remember, too, that Paul speaks of the believer's obedience in terms of the power of God: 'it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure' (Philippians 2.13). So it's because of human merit that the believer can even obey. It's all of God, Who does all the saving and all the keeping.
F
felix
Guest
(Philippians 2:12) Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
(Philippians 2:13) for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure.
(Philippians 2:14) Do all things without complaining and disputing,
(Philippians 2:15) that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
(Philippians 2:16) holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.
Why is Paul asking to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling if it is God who does the saving and keeping?
Why is Paul afraid if his labor is in vain, when all are already saved and all the saving and keeping is from God?
The verse,
(Philippians 2:13) for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure.
It is the regeneration/cleansing process which is the work of Holy Spirit. This has nothing to do with God saving and keeping.
farouk
Member
The word SOTERIA can mean deliverance in its fullest sense.
But it remains the case that God does work in the believer 'both to will and to do of His good pleasure'.
We can't boast of obedience. It's all of God.
F
felix
Guest
Who is boasting about anything? Is being obedient to God which He expects have anything to do with boasting?
Are you going to say?... Oh Lord, I don't have to keep your commandments and be obedient to you because, that will be boasting of my obedience for Salvation.
How unbiblical?
(1 John 2:4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
farouk
Member
...but when the believer even obeys His Lord at all, it's by the power of God, assured to those whose redemption is already utterly secure, as God works in them 'both to will and to do of His good pleasure' (Philippians 2.13).
Ephesians 2.9 is also relevant.
F
felix
Guest
Which is why I mentioned earlier, the works mentioned by Paul in all his letters is always works of the law and the works which James mentions are always works which Christ expects. Both are different. Sermon on the mount is the best example to differentiate both.
I explained in detail in my blog: Faith and Works in Salvation
Context of "faith" by Paul & James (using Gen 15:6)
- (Rom 4:2-5) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abrahambelieved God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
- (Jas 2:21-24) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
The work James mentioned as an example:
(Jas 2:15-16) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
Which is exactly what Christ said in Matt 7:19, Matt 25:31-46.
Can anyone reject Matt 7:19 and Matt 25:31-46 which are the words of Christ as works? Looks like Christ Himself is asking us do works, otherwise, we will be cast into fire. John the baptist also preached the same in Luke 3:9-11.
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felix
Guest
Nothing is earned because, nothing is given at the first place. Salvation is through Christ who dwells in us. If Salvation is given as a separate package, why care about Christ then?
Salvation is ONLY in Christ. If we have Christ, we have Eternal life. If we reject Him by bearing no fruit and/or practicing lawlessness, so does Salvation is no more in us, because Christ who has Salvation is no more in us.
(Hebrews 12:14) Pursue peace with all [people,] and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
(Hebrews 12:15) looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;
How sure are you that the Word spoken by God will return to Him void?
(Isaiah 55:11) So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper [in the thing] for which I sent it.
How sure are you that the curse of death will never happen?
(Genesis 2:16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
(Genesis 2:17) "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
Which is why, we are dead and there is no salvation in us. Salvation and Eternal life is only in Christ Jesus which are "hidden". It is NEVER given to anyone.
(Colossians 3:3) For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
(1 Peter 1:5) who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The hidden life and our salvation which is in Christ Jesus will be revealed when He appears in the clouds.
How sure are you Ananias and Sapphira are non believers without the Holy Spirit?
(Acts 5:3) But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back [part] of the price of the land for yourself?
(Acts 5:9) Then Peter said to her, "How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband [are] at the door, and they will carry you out."
(Acts 5:10) Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying [her] out, buried [her] by her husband.
If they are just lying, they just do to Peter. Isn't they filled their heart to lie to Holy Spirit who is in their heart?
M
Mitspa
Guest
You have mentioned the law, over and over. The commandments of God unto the believer is Faith in His Son and love as He loves us. FAITH WORKING BY LOVE. Now either you know this like many claim to do, but yet you present scripture to suggest a believer is judged by the law of moses?
Why? Also you seem to ignore the all that Paul taught concerning the law and why it was given, for only when one understands Pauls gospel can one understand why the Lord used the law as He did. He brought its full weight upon a group of self-righteous and deceived people.
Also I would ask you is holiness a product of mans flesh? Can man produce holiness by his own efforts? Of course he cannot nor is this religious form of holiness accepted before God. Holiness is a life seperated unto God, The righteousness of faith alone, bears fruit onto holiness. Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, law and legalism have a "form" but was not accepted in the pharisee and God not tolerate such things in those who claim to be believers. Now until one is set free from the law, they cannot understand "ETERNAL" salvation, nor eternal things in general, because they are fleshly minded. Meaning they see themselves and others according to the flesh and not the spirit.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Dont play games with the Holy Spirit in Gods Church is the message of That.
As the serpent deceived Eve? "did God really say not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil" Did God really say that those who turn back to law and legalism are CUT OFF from Christ? Put it together the law is the ministry of DEATH and condemnation. Faith in Christ and in His Blood is the Tree of Life. All attempts to justifiy oneself by the law or EVEN THE LETTER of the New Testament is death.
Deborah13
Member
Felix, did you say this is your first language?
Tamil (தமிழ், tamiḻ, [t̪ɐmɨɻ] ?) is a Dravidian language spoken predominantly by Tamil people of South India and North-east Sri Lanka. It has official status in the Indian states of Tamil Nadu and Puducherry. Tamil is also a national language of Sri Lanka[7] and an official language of Singapore
Tamil (தமிழ், tamiḻ, [t̪ɐmɨɻ] ?) is a Dravidian language spoken predominantly by Tamil people of South India and North-east Sri Lanka. It has official status in the Indian states of Tamil Nadu and Puducherry. Tamil is also a national language of Sri Lanka[7] and an official language of Singapore
G
Guest
Guest
You talk a lot about salvation, but you never mention how to obtain salvation. Do you understand that God raised Jesus from the dead and dwells inside of believers walking this earth? Your belief system is very confusing. I don't understand what your believing in. You believe salvation is in Christ, but one bad mistake and that's it, our salvation is gone?!? No sir, if that was true then none of his promises have been kept. That is false doctrine.
What do you think, a sinner automatically understands how to obey God?? It doesn't work that way man. A man's heart is sinful and hardened by nature. It takes the love of God and his grace to burst open this mans heart to God! Not only does a sinner hate God, he doesn't even know what he's hating. Nothing is earned correct, because a gift is a gift no matter if you've earned it or not. If someone hands you a gift, that gift is out of love. God's salvation is a gift to us because God loved us first before we loved him!
You need to get that 'we need to obey or else we go to hell' idea out of your head because it's false felix. God is not Hitler, God knows we are not perfect. He created people from our mothers womb for crying out loud. He knows everything. He created us with flaws, even after salvation. There is nothing in this world that can break the seal of God. Once saved, always saved. You need to open your eyes a little bit and start listening to our brothers and sisters on this board.