EV or ICE

[MayGodHeal]

GM is phasing out petroleum in 12 years not saying the internal combustion won't survive I think it will just with cleaner combustions admissions.

I don't see a issue with changing what creates the propulsion.

If you are referring to using synthetic fuels and hydrogen, so far I don't see GM making any plans for that though their ICE tech may favor both.

As for EVs again, you can't build what you can't sell. If they plan on offering all EVs, going by current numbers they'll lose at least 75% of their sales. It may be possible that will change in 12 years, however it's highly unlikely. Time will tell. You can offer different power trains but you can't force one or the other. If EVs sell better in the future then maybe there is a chance and ICE enthusiasts will just be using used but there is also a chance both EVs and ICE will sell together along with EVs may not be as a great selling product.

It's mainly up to the free market. I'm not trying to say EVs will not sell or people shouldn't invest in them, but saying we're going to phase out ICE for EVs is very different from actually making it happen.

Getting the 25% to actually buy and use EVs is going to take a lot of work, especially when currently it's around 5% and lead to believe most of that is business fleet sales. You also have to work out the amount of issues EVs currently have as well. This is nothing like phasing out horses for ICE.

Pretty much all they needed in the beginning was the fuel. You need a place to charge your electric vehicle not everyone has the ability to do which is why a lot of people depend on ICE and very much unlikely to change in 10 or even 15 years. Yes more Charging stations may be up, you also need to provide enough power which will also be a massive undertaking especially if people are wanting faster Charging you also need batteries that can handle fast charging without degrading the batteries. The batteries need to be safe, with long life and hold up to it's rated range.. It's a toss up whether all this can be in place in 10 years. It could take much longer.

The biggest factor is getting buyers. Batteries really isn't the best idea, liquid fuels really is the better option if you really want society off of fossil fuels.. again it's likely not going to happen quickly. People wanting it to happen in 12 years and reality of the situation are two different things.

We might be using hydrogen electric vehicles instead, just have to replace the gas stations with hydrogen or add hydrogen with existing gas. The future is yet to be determined.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Yea I saw that to funny, though could be of some kind of use lol.

It's cheaper than a gator. I live really rural, si I could use it around the lake to haul wood, dirt, and plants.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

I have never seen such wisdom and intelligence and logic from people who want to control and rule my life and tell me what's best for me. That's incredible.

 

[miamited]

Hi MayGodHeal

The fact this push towards electric vehicles is anything but impatient shows there is a hidden agenda behind it.

I suppose you can break down the logic behind that statement. How does anything being rushed 'show' that there is a hidden agenda? Kinda like when the Cowboy's interecepted that ball but it was really close to being out of bounds and so they want to rush the next snap so it doesn't get looked at? Is that where you get your deductive logic from?

I just can't believe the false logic and scare propaganda that is being used here on this thread. It's just a changing technology!!!!! That's all it is. Just like our trains don't have to load up with coal and firewood anymore. They have huge and powerful electric generators that power the drive wheels of locomotives now. It's been a thing for quite awhile now. And there likely isn't anyone who wants to go back to the days of locomotives belching big puffs of smoke as they journey through our towns and cities.

Get real!!!

God bless,
Ted

 

[MayGodHeal]

miamited explain to me how the 1% is trying to push the end for ICE when sales for EVs is around 5%? As if the demand for them is 50% or higher. How is California having a much bigger success rate for EVs compared to the rest of the country? I'm sure it has nothing to do with their extreme policies.

 

[miamited]

miamited explain to me how the 1% is trying to push the end for ICE when sales for EVs is around 5%? As if the demand for them is 50% or higher. How is California having a much bigger success rate for EVs compared to the rest of the country? I'm sure it has nothing to do with their extreme policies.

Hi MayGodHeal

First of all, you're making a false argument right off the bat. The people working towards and accepting and adopting the new EV technology is quite a bit above 1%. So, first false argument is that it is more than just '1% is trying to push the end for ICE'. However, and please put this in your pipe to mull on a bit. Just because some haven't yet bought EVs doesn't mean that they are against it. They just, like myself, are waiting until they need to replace their vehicle and also waiting for the technology to grow and improve.

You apparently don't see that a lot of your argument over the postings that you've put out so far, is based on a lot of faulty logic. Try this on and see if you can whittle these numbers down to less than your 1%:

Overall, two-thirds of Americans support providing incentives to increase the use of electric and hybrid vehicles.
Pew research
A recent Pew Research Center report finds 47% of U.S. adults support a proposal to phase out production of gasoline-powered cars and trucks, ...
Pew research
About one-quarter of Americans say they want to get an electric vehicle as their next car purchase, the survey released Wednesday found. Many ...
CBS report (yes, I know, fake news)
EV adoption is on the rise According to the report from Jerry, 1 in 10 Americans (8%) were already driving an EV at the end of 2021. ...

I'm just afraid that your fake numbers and fear mongering aren't really supported by many 'facts', if any at all.

I appreciate that you're against the technology. That's fine. You have at least 20 years before you 'may' have to buy an EV. Hopefully by then, the new technology will just be old hat. However, in 20 years, if you still want to stay with ICE, you may be relegated to the used car market.

God bless,
Ted

 

[MayGodHeal]

miamited some of those surveys contradict one another. Did you read them? How does 75% that are not interested in an EV when 67% of people support a phaseout of ICE?

If more than 1% are pushing EVs why is the sale rate under 5% Why are used EVs sitting on dealers lots and why is California the only state that is selling them at a far higher rate?

I will try to find the article but less than 1% of Americans owned an EV in 2021. Not 8%. Also this was already covered up because the original article vanished (i had it bookmarked) but over 50% of EV owners in 2021 went back to a gas car, reason why they had less than 1%. I wouldn't be surprised if that article is also gone but then if you are not paying attention to it every one trying to say it is a liar and these people pushing EVs are not recieving people and the politicians are trustworthy as if there is no evil involved with this push.

 

[Milk-Drops]

miamited some of those surveys contradict one another. Did you read them? How does 75% that are not interested in an EV when 67% of people support a phaseout of ICE?

If more than 1% are pushing EVs why is the sale rate under 5% Why are used EVs sitting on dealers lots and why is California the only state that is selling them at a far higher rate?

I will try to find the article but less than 1% of Americans owned an EV in 2021. Not 8%. Also this was already covered up because the original article vanished (i had it bookmarked) but over 50% of EV owners in 2021 went back to a gas car, reason why they had less than 1%. I wouldn't be surprised if that article is also gone but then if you are not paying attention to it every one trying to say it is a liar and these people pushing EVs are not recieving people and the politicians are trustworthy as if there is no evil involved with this push.

A lot of this comes down to the cost and availability of the product. Teslas are sold as high end luxury goods. Some makers are offering some choice such as the Chevy volt. Right now it's about technology patents and how to make the product cheaper. 20 years is huge. The first iPad had like 4Gb of data, 20 years later we had 512bGb phones. Now we are closing in on terabytes of phone storage.

The tech will get there depending on patents, and legislation will adapt as it comes along.

 

[jasonc]

A lot of this comes down to the cost and availability of the product. Teslas are sold as high end luxury goods. Some makers are offering some choice such as the Chevy volt. Right now it's about technology patents and how to make the product cheaper. 20 years is huge. The first iPad had like 4Gb of data, 20 years later we had 512bGb phones. Now we are closing in on terabytes of phone storage.

The tech will get there depending on patents, and legislation will adapt as it comes along.

That's akin to saying we will have batteries that can power warp drives if we fund research .

 

[MayGodHeal]

Milk-Drops while that may be a factor I see there is more to this story. I've been looking at used EVs in just a 100mile radius and this number hasn't changed too much, over 3,000 used EVs. 2,000 of them are Tesla. One of the things that is often stated is that Tesla has a backlog of 5+ months of orders. Meaning Tesla is struggling to get vehicles out.

Looking at used though you could get a year or two old Tesla and not have to wait very long. If Teslas were as popular as they say you would think that there would be 10, maybe 50 used Teslas. Not over a 1,000 let alone 2,000. That makes you wonder what is really going on. I've observed this every 6 months.

We know EV technology isn't perfect but this does kind of show that many people are buying these vehicles and not really keeping them or they lease it every year just to increase sales to look like they're popular than they really are. I do see some Teslas on the road but it's like any other vehicle out there.

Of course after i say this now those 2,000 Teslas may just eventually disappear or dwindle down. But it is interesting that someone will wait months for a new one when used ones are available and potentially cheaper.

 

[jaybo]

You quoted a post where I was referring to 77,000 diesels made before 2010 were forced off the roads because California made the vehicles illegal. Farmers rely on older equipment because they cannot afford newer machines.

a) Some farmers can afford all kinds of expensive machinery while some cannot. That is the case with every industry.
b) Most farm machinery is driven on farms, not roads!

BTW, how about discussing the OP subject -- cooking with gas -- instead of vehicles?

 

[miamited]

miamited some of those surveys contradict one another. Did you read them? How does 75% that are not interested in an EV when 67% of people support a phaseout of ICE?

If more than 1% are pushing EVs why is the sale rate under 5% Why are used EVs sitting on dealers lots and why is California the only state that is selling them at a far higher rate?

I will try to find the article but less than 1% of Americans owned an EV in 2021. Not 8%. Also this was already covered up because the original article vanished (i had it bookmarked) but over 50% of EV owners in 2021 went back to a gas car, reason why they had less than 1%. I wouldn't be surprised if that article is also gone but then if you are not paying attention to it every one trying to say it is a liar and these people pushing EVs are not recieving people and the politicians are trustworthy as if there is no evil involved with this push.

Hi MayGodHeal

According to Pew Research in July of 2021 some 7% of the population owned and EV. And that's ok. That's why the CA bill sets 2035 for their target date to stop selling ICE models. It is a growing new technology, just like the computer was not so long ago, and it will take some time for all people, after all this is a word wide change happening, to acclimatize and accept.

And yes, I'm sure that there will be some, just as there always seem to be, who will be slow coming to the dance floor. That's ok, too. But it's coming. If they ever get a good hydrogen or other fuel source system set up, then we can go at that one also. We're a big country with lots of people. For the most part, everyone gets to do what they want to do. However, there will always be supply issues for those who stick with old technology for too, long. Look how hard it is to buy any decent 8 track tapes with today's music.

Oh, and I'm sorry, but I didn't ask your opening question. Minor polling differences can be explained by the difference in the question; what group was being asked; or just at different times. People's attitudes can change daily, which is why polling data is just a 'general direction' indicator.

I'm sorry again. I went back and reread my post with the supporting information, and I couldn't find anywhere where my post said anything about 75% of people not being interested in EV. Could you refresh my memory, since that's what you're accusing me of saying, please?

Anyway, we've beat this ole' horse pretty rough.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Milk-Drops]

That's akin to saying we will have batteries that can power warp drives if we fund research .

Not really. If we had president maybe. I have been watching some channels that have been moving Chinese electric cars with drip chargers, and solar panels on the top. It helps. Plus a huge investment in public infrastructure would also make it easier to transition.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Milk-Drops while that may be a factor I see there is more to this story. I've been looking at used EVs in just a 100mile radius and this number hasn't changed too much, over 3,000 used EVs. 2,000 of them are Tesla. One of the things that is often stated is that Tesla has a backlog of 5+ months of orders. Meaning Tesla is struggling to get vehicles out.

Looking at used though you could get a year or two old Tesla and not have to wait very long. If Teslas were as popular as they say you would think that there would be 10, maybe 50 used Teslas. Not over a 1,000 let alone 2,000. That makes you wonder what is really going on. I've observed this every 6 months.

We know EV technology isn't perfect but this does kind of show that many people are buying these vehicles and not really keeping them or they lease it every year just to increase sales to look like they're popular than they really are. I do see some Teslas on the road but it's like any other vehicle out there.

Of course after i say this now those 2,000 Teslas may just eventually disappear or dwindle down. But it is interesting that someone will wait months for a new one when used ones are available and potentially cheaper.

Whats the cost on a used Tesla? If it's over 15k it's not likely to move fast. Like I said Teslas are sold as a luxury item. Not a Work or family vehicle.

 

[jasonc]

Not really. If we had president maybe. I have been watching some channels that have been moving Chinese electric cars with drip chargers, and solar panels on the top. It helps. Plus a huge investment in public infrastructure would also make it easier to transition.

We didn't have roads when the model t for cars.

Most roads came about decades after the fact and the earliest we're often private adventures .

Or old wagon trails.

With the amount money given to solar farms we sure should have uninterrupted service .

Look I work for a utility .I photo old city lines and it has taken years for old poles to come down .concrete poles are in short supply .

You can't just pass a law and viola the utilities will be ready as people fight that and also eminent domain is that problem with. That .
Plus we'll people fight nuke and even solar farming and wind power on the "green"side .

We can't just find a battery by reasearch and hope it will have enough energy to last forever and use it to sail ships and fly things.forgot about those electric aircraft that can only fly for a few hundred miles.i might hit Atlanta with that .

 

[jasonc]

There is a house that is fully of grid that uses a solar panel hook up.

He has no connection to any grid.not much of lights and can't run a large ac unit .days of darkness in Alaska that solar panel powered drip charging is gonna work?
Alaska has in the winter four hours of lights.trickle charging?
Seriously I would buy a bike at least I could move it in the winter and summer .

I have solar powered outdoor lights and those work poorly after days of rain.if it rained for a day they didn't work until it was sunny for a few days.

 

[jasonc]

Whats the cost on a used Tesla? If it's over 15k it's not likely to move fast. Like I said Teslas are sold as a luxury item. Not a Work or family vehicle.

I have seen them on the mainland and you would be surprised who owns them here on the mainland where few millionaires live .

 

[jasonc]

Can You Charge an Electric Car with a Portable Solar Panel?

Are portable solar panels capable of charging an electric car? Click to find out.

www.bluettipower.com

I can't see any car going far with that idea.

 

[MayGodHeal]

Whats the cost on a used Tesla? If it's over 15k it's not likely to move fast. Like I said Teslas are sold as a luxury item. Not a Work or family vehicle.

Yet Tesla made quite a lot of sales in 2022. Even the used sales would also be sold out, why only new? The numbers doesn't make much sense here. If I was looking for an EV cost aside I'd opt for a 1-3 year used one instead of waiting months for a new one. Tesla prices dropped as well.

Tesla deliveries by quarter 2023 | Statista

Tesla quarterly deliveries worldwide broke records in 2022 and 2023. This came after Tesla deliveries increased to over 300,000 in the fourth quarter of 2021.

www.statista.com