[_ Old Earth _] Evolution is nothing but a side issue in Christianity

[jwu]

better then death i suppose, not sure .

True, but there would have been plenty of other options. Permanent headache, bad breath, there are many possibilities! But the ones chosen by God do directly relate to the intellectual development of mankind - for which "eating from the tree of knowledge" is a fitting metaphor. This would be a weird coincidence, considering all the other options out there.

The Bible uses numbers a lot, 6 days probably has meaning else where, same as 7, again i don't know all the answers, but no he does not get fatigued.

Exactly! Just like in other cases, e.g. "40 years in the desert" or "40 days and nights", this is more about the symbology of the given number than the actual duration.

i find a cool verse, no man shall know the day or the hour on his coming. if we take that literally then the Bible probably has secrets leading to the rapture, no man will know the day or hour, what about week,month year?

Well, if it also said, "no man shall know the day or the hour or the week or the year", then one could make the same argument about the decade or the century. While it may be interesting to analyze possible hints (it's not my cup of tea though), one can never be sure until is becomes obvious to anyone ;). So many people thought they knew it before, and they all turned out to be wrong...

 

[John]

Well, if it also said, "no man shall know the day or the hour or the week or the year", then one could make the same argument about the decade or the century. While it may be interesting to analyze possible hints (it's not my cup of tea though), one can never be sure until is becomes obvious to anyone ;). So many people thought they knew it before, and they all turned out to be wrong...

True enough, but it never hurts to be ready, i prefer to think of it as free life insurance.

 

[OnFireForChrist]

I believe that evolution could be possible ONLY IF it is accepted that God is the instigator of it and it is admitted that God created all things. God's creativity is much vaster than ours, and there is no way for sure we can say how things developed and over what period of time, and if they still do that today; evolution is a theory, not proven fact. However, whether or not God has employed the theory of evolution or not, the important thing is to admit God as the Creator. :wink:

 

[jwu]

evolution is a theory, not proven fact.

Note that nothing in science is ever proven; "theory" is as good as it gets.

What in common spoken language is called a "theory" is called a "hypothesis" in science.

 

[John]

evolution is a theory, not proven fact.

Note that nothing in science is ever proven; "theory" is as good as it gets.

they have only been doing experiments that prove gravity for hundred of years. ;-)

 

[jwu]

Actually no, the theory of gravitation is not proven at all.

That things fall down is a self-evident fact, just like it is a self-evident fact that the frequency of allele change (one needs to look at the genes for the latter though).
But the theories which explain these facts can never be totally proven, no matter how much evidence they have.

The hierarchy of knowledge in science:
Theory > law > fact.

Facts are direct observations. "Things fall down", in case of gravity
Laws describe regularities and repeating patterns among the facts. F=g*M1*M2/r², in case of gravity.
Theories explain the mechanisms which cause the laws to emerge. Attraction of masses through curvature of spacetime, in case of gravity.

 

[John]

i drop a pencil. gravity's theory is proven, am i missing something here? 2+2 = 4 proven fact.

 

[thinksalot]

I think it is pretty important. First off evolution is a result of men trying to explain away God. I will not change the way I look at the Bible based on what mere men have to say. And did Jesus not come to save us from the sin and death that is a direct result of the original rebellion by Adam and Eve? If we don't believe what Genesis says then what do we think Jesus' purpose was? Genesis is the very foundation for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so if we deny it then are we not also denying the Gospel? Now this is not to say I believe that people cannot be saved and believe in evolution, it's just that they are being a little inconsistent.

WHAT??????? Evolution is based on evidence and was formed without an concept of Religion involved.......so you are completely deluded there!

Did Jesus NOT come from paganistic anthropomorphisms of the Sun God......the Son of God!

Genesis has NOT been proven, but continue to believe in these things........so, How is your unicorn doing?

 

[John]

I think it is pretty important. First off evolution is a result of men trying to explain away God. I will not change the way I look at the Bible based on what mere men have to say. And did Jesus not come to save us from the sin and death that is a direct result of the original rebellion by Adam and Eve? If we don't believe what Genesis says then what do we think Jesus' purpose was? Genesis is the very foundation for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so if we deny it then are we not also denying the Gospel? Now this is not to say I believe that people cannot be saved and believe in evolution, it's just that they are being a little inconsistent.

WHAT??????? Evolution is based on evidence and was formed without an concept of Religion involved.......so you are completely deluded there!

Did Jesus NOT come from paganistic anthropomorphisms of the Sun God......the Son of God!

Genesis has NOT been proven, but continue to believe in these things........so, How is your unicorn doing?

evolution might not have been directed at Christians at first, but it sure is now, because it Denys my god of what he said. and people try to say the the genesis account is figurative just to jusity evolution and give it its place.

I don't know everything about the bible and/or god, but when he clearly said he did it then i am going to bleive it.

now you are correct genesis has not been proven but neither has evolution.

hows my unicorn doing ? wtf man, if you believe in evolution then a unicorn would be easy for you . hello man from a rock.

in order to argue anything you need to see both sides, i personally spend a great deal of time looking the both sides, it allows me to be open minded, i suggest you do the same so you can get a grasp on what it is your even taking about.

 

[jwu]

i drop a pencil. gravity's theory is proven, am i missing something here? 2+2 = 4 proven fact.

No...that way you don't prove that the pen fell down due to curvature of spacetime caused by the presence of the mass of the earth and the pencil's. There could be another cause for the pen's behaviour. But exactly the cause of this behaviour is what the theory of gravity is about.
The real cause could be very different and merely produce the same or very similar results as the currently accepted ToG.

now you are correct genesis has not been proven but neither has evolution.

The ToE however is 99.99999999999999999+% certain based on the available evidence though, while a literal interpretation is pretty much falsified. "Neither being proved" doesn't mean that there aren't different levels of certainty.

hello man from a rock.

Hello, man from pulverized rocks (=dust)...;)

 

[Free]

Christians really should not believe Genesis to be figurative and that it was in fact from God. Genesis gives our origin, lays out the whole reason we're here, why we are in the condition we are and that we need a Saviour. The rest of Scripture refers to and quotes from Genesis as though the events were literal.

If a Christian argues that Genesis is figurative, then they have just undermined their entire theology, and likely don't realize it. I doubt that any Christian who makes this argument has given any serious thought as to its implications.

My 2 cents.

 

[John]

Christians really should not believe Genesis to be figurative and that it was in fact from God. Genesis gives our origin, lays out the whole reason we're here, why we are in the condition we are and that we need a Saviour. The rest of Scripture refers to and quotes from Genesis as though the events were literal.

If a Christian argues that Genesis is figurative, then they have just undermined their entire theology, and likely don't realize it. I doubt that any Christian who makes this argument has given any serious thought as to its implications.

My 2 cents.

Thank you 8-)

 

[jwu]

Genesis gives our origin, lays out the whole reason we're here, why we are in the condition we are and that we need a Saviour.

It doesn't need to be literal to do that though. Christian theistic evolutionists generally do interprete Genesis as an allegory about man's spiritual relationship to God; personally i even do interprete it as a metaphor for actual historical events (the intellectual development of mankind).

The rest of Scripture refers to and quotes from Genesis as though the events were literal.

That's not a problem at all. It's common to refer to works of literature or allegories as if they were literal events.
Didn't Hamlet say, "to be or not to be?"

Didn't the tortoise win the race against the hare? (Fable of the Hare and the Tortoise)

See? I can refer to events from literature and fables as if they were literal history.

Even Paul interpretes a part of Genesis as an allegory in Galatians 4:22-26:
"For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and the other by a free woman. The child of the slave was born according to the flesh; the child of the free woman was born through the promise. Now this is being allegorized: for these women are two covenants. One, indeed, is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery. This is Hagar, for Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is a slave with her children. But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free, and she is our mother."

 

[Free]

Like I said, most who believe such have not given much thought to the implications.

 

[jwu]

Then please enlighten me.