Faith v. Logic

[Solo]

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:14-19


1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, 3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. 5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Revelation 10:1-7

 

[stovebolts]

Right on Solo!
That's Exactly what I was trying to say! :P

 

[MaybeNextTime]

Ok, I know I'm gonna catch greif on this one, but hey,
What a trip :-D

Now… it simply always was, is and will be.

Time as defined by man is in relation to the distance between heavenly bodies. Does God think as we think?

What exactly is time? What if I told you that time does not exist, but rather, only the now.

So we talk about a long time ago… is it not simply a thought on something that occurred that we can recall? And what of the future? Is it not just a thought on something anticipated? And when do these thoughts occur if not but for now?

What is the difference between a long time ago and a short time ago? Is it not simply a thought in relation of objects that no longer exist in the state that they once were? Lets see, a short time ago would be two objects that are close together while a long time ago are two objects that are far apart. But what causes our view to determine if something is close, or far away? Wouldn’t this be subjective to our understanding in relation to the objects around us? Certainly bacteria would measure time in relation to the objects that surrounded them while a sun’s life could be measured by the solar system that surrounded them.

So we see that time really only exists in relation to objects that we agree upon. If time really is nothing other than a reflection or an anticipation of thoughts, then time really is nothing other than now.

But how much now is there? Things only occur in the now for past and future are only perceived in the now in relation to the now for without now, nothing would exist that anything could be compared with.

But there is a now and now has always been. True Eternity is now and holds no timeline for now never had a beginning nor does it for if it did, it would be in relation to the past and as stated, the past is only a reflection from the now while again, the future is really only an anticipation in the now.

Eternity in the NT is usually the word Aionios. Correctly translated, it means “Of an Age†or rather, a specific period denoted by significant events that are encompassed by the restrictions of time that we place upon them in our feeble attempt to understand.

So I’m left asking the question, how big is the universe? How big is outer space? In comparison, aren’t we really smaller than an atom as it relates to a single cell? If this is true, then how small is our comparison of time if time really is nothing other than a thought that occurs in the now in reflection or anticipation of our current surrounding as we currently view them?

In closing, if now is all there truly is, then how big is now and can we truly restrict now to our views and if so, how bias would our views truly be?

Now… it simply always was, is and will be.

No. That's not definition of time. You're not even remotely close... EDITED I don't even know what you're talking about. Where did you get that idea from? TV?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time

Watch the language, you are posting on a Christian site..
Edits made by Atonement

 

[stovebolts]

MaybeNextTime,
Yer a funny guy lol :wink:

Actually, I beleive my statment agree's with your little link to Wikepedia :o It just goes to tell me that you don't fully understand what you read from Wiki :

Lets start here. How is time measured? If time is a noun and measuring is a verb, then we would have to have motion between at least two nouns. It is the motion between these objects that we use as a stable datum. You see, nouns don't change or they'd be verbs :wink:

In the case of earth, we measured time by the rotation of the earth and we call it day and night. These objects are then divided into hours, minutes and seconds. Furthermore, we measure the distance that it is for the earth to orbit the sun one complete time and we call that a year. These years accordingly are broken down to months, weeks and days.

So you see, time is fundementally the measurment between two objects and as somthing moves, what we are really measuring is it's change.

Now, if true Eternity has no beginning and has no end, does it change? No, because eternity is simply now. And how we view now, detirmens how we view things past and future in the only thing that we truly have, and that is NOW.

Make sense yet or are ya still scratchen yerself ;-)

 

[Quath]

What exactly is time?

One of the interesting parts of special relativity is that it shows that time is another dimension similar to hight, width or depth. Time should be measured in meters or miles (that we travel in that dimension). Every second, we travel 3X10^8 meters in the time dimension.

I just saw something on Discovery on that guy and didn't he think that black holes actually destroyed matter? :o

After all, matter only changes states :wink:

Black holes take matter and eventually turn it into energy as it radiates away. A lot of the new controversy is whether black holes destroy information or not.

 

[MaybeNextTime]

Yer a funny guy too, man.

What you're trying to describe is actually a calendar.

Did you actually read the part of this article regarding physics? It doesn't seem so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_ph ... _mechanics

 

[stovebolts]

Yer a funny guy too, man.

What you're trying to describe is actually a calendar.

Did you actually read the part of this article regarding physics? It doesn't seem so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_ph ... _mechanics

ohh I'm a rolling now! LOL :D

What I described, is what our calendar is based on lol.
Lets take this really sloowww :wink:

The e a r t h (noun) rotates (verb). One full revolution (from point a back to point a)= one day. One day then is equal to the movement that it took to make that journey. It is this movement that we call time (noun).

Now, I'm not going to lie and say that I understood all those equations you posted and if you know what they mean, then by all means please explain them to me. Deal?

But the page does raise an interesting thought...

ΔE is the uncertainty in energy
ΔT is the uncertainty in time

What causes the uncertainty with time?
In other words, if a day is the full revolution of the earth (from point a back to point a) and that's what were basing our time on in relation to a day, what would happen if everything slowed down or sped up in perportion to each other? The distance would remain the same, hence, it matters not the speed of an object, but rather the distance between two points that we base our time on.

Get it yet :wink:
:-D

 

[stovebolts]

Black holes take matter and eventually turn it into energy as it radiates away. A lot of the new controversy is whether black holes destroy information or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Ha ... an_old_bet :-D :-D

Did you get a chance to see this on TV? It was very well done.

BTW (and I know you know this), but I believe that Hawking is the one who came up with the big bang right.

 

[MaybeNextTime]

"The e a r t h (noun) rotates (verb). One full revolution (from point a back to point a)= one day. One day then is equal to the movement that it took to make that journey. It is this movement that we call time (noun)."

No. This movement is not what we call time... Lol, you just don't get it.

Have you even studied physics at school? Seems not, because time measurement differs at different speed - thoery of relativity...

You can't seem to comprehend the difference between everyday speach word "time" and the one we use in physics.

Get educated before you start calling me funny...

The equation you cut apart says that you can't precisely measure delta E if you already measured delta T and vice versa.

What I wanted to say is that you can't use the definition of time we use in calendar, in everyday speach etc. in relation to physics because the definition of it in physics and in everyday life are two different things.

 

[Quath]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking#Losing_an_old_bet :-D :-D

Did you get a chance to see this on TV? It was very well done.

I believe I rented the movie, Brief History of Time, to show my wife. I read the book back in college. (I am assuming that is what you were referring to.)

BTW (and I know you know this), but I believe that Hawking is the one who came up with the big bang right.

Georges Lemaître proposed it in 1927. (FYI, he was a Catholic priest.)

Hawkings has pretty much been asociated with black holes. There is some thought that black holes could create new Big Banguniverses though. Maybe that is where you heard that connection?

 

[PDoug]

One important note: you guys are groping around blind, trying to figure out the structure of the universe via the power of the god called science. Science can’t tell you anything definitive. All it does is put forward ideas - the foundations of which cannot be confirmed. You are like blind men groping around a room, guessing at everything you feel.

Don’t try to dress up science in respectable clothes and parade him around as someone noble. He is impoverished and a fraud. He and his brother, technology, distract you with cheap, petty, gifts, when you are all sons of the living God, in whom you have lordship over all things – including science and technology. (All you need to do is claim your birthright, and see for yourself that what I say is so.)

 

[stovebolts]

Hey Quath,
Actually, I didn’t know they made a movie on Hawkings, “A brief History of Timeâ€Â. I wonder if NetFlix has it?
Actually, I believe it was Discovery or one of those ed-u-ma-ca-tion-a-mal [adj] channels that recently did a show called, "The Hawkings Paradox" where they talked about Hawking’s black hole theory. It seemed to me that Hawking did some work with the Big Bang theory according to the documentary too. Oh well.

MbNT,
Yer still a funny guy lol and at its best, cheap entertainment for the day lol.
Have fun, lighten up, and enjoy the boards. Ohh, and by the way,
W E L C O M E !

 

[MaybeNextTime]

Hey Quath,
Actually, I didn’t know they made a movie on Hawkings, “A brief History of Timeâ€Â. I wonder if NetFlix has it?
Actually, I believe it was Discovery or one of those ed-u-ma-ca-tion-a-mal [adj] channels that recently did a show called, "The Hawkings Paradox" where they talked about Hawking’s black hole theory. It seemed to me that Hawking did some work with the Big Bang theory according to the documentary too. Oh well.

MbNT,
Yer still a funny guy lol and at its best, cheap entertainment for the day lol.
Have fun, lighten up, and enjoy the boards. Ohh, and by the way,
W E L C O M E !

Shut it... Your complete lack of knowledge and attempts to make fun of me are ridiculous. It's just pathetic.

 

[MaybeNextTime]

One important note: you guys are groping around blind, trying to figure out the structure of the universe via the power of the god called science. Science can’t tell you anything definitive. All it does is put forward ideas - the foundations of which cannot be confirmed. You are like blind men groping around a room, guessing at everything you feel.

Don’t try to dress up science in respectable clothes and parade him around as someone noble. He is impoverished and a fraud. He and his brother, technology, distract you with cheap, petty, gifts, when you are all sons of the living God, in whom you have lordship over all things – including science and technology. (All you need to do is claim your birthright, and see for yourself that what I say is so.)

And who says it? You base your life on a book written by unknown men almost 2000 years ago and support it only with blind faith... lol

 

[stovebolts]

Shut it... Your complete lack of knowledge and attempts to make fun of me are ridiculous. It's just pathetic.

Now now, is that really needed?

Lets start over can we?

Ok, I know I'm gonna catch greif on this one, but hey,
What a trip :-D

I still have a grin on my face :

 

[MaybeNextTime]

I still have a grin on my face :

No, we can't because you were trying to make fun of me eventhough it is you who has no idea what he's talking about (regarding time that is).

 

[stovebolts]

EDit
That was just wrong of me :wink:

 

[PDoug]

And who says it? You base your life on a book written by unknown men almost 2000 years ago and support it only with blind faith... lol

Science cannot tell you anything definitive about the structure of the universe. All it does is guess at the way things are. Faith on the other hand is the practice of asking God for things, and believing that you will receive them – Mark 11:22-24. It is this process which gives you the capacity the reason the truths about our universe.

Faith is not about taking up a book and believing that it is true. It is about betting that a book is true, and seeing for yourself that is – through the process of faith I described above.

 

[stovebolts]

Time exists regardless of how we define it...

We define items and put them in these little boxes so that we can use them to support other thoughts that we have.

Answer me these questions.
1. Can you go back in time?
2. Can you go forward in time?
3. Can we change time past?
4. Can we change time future?

An honest assesment of these questions leaves these logical conclusions.
A. Only now truly exists.
B. Only our view of time past can be altered, not time past itself.
C. Only our anticipation of time future can be altered, not future time itself.

 

[MaybeNextTime]

Science cannot tell you anything definitive about the structure of the universe. All it does is guess at the way things are. Faith on the other hand is the practice of asking God for things, and believing that you will receive them – Mark 11:22-24. It is this process which gives you the capacity the reason the truths about our universe.

Faith is not about taking up a book and believing that it is true. It is about betting that a book is true, and seeing for yourself that is – through the process of faith I described above.

lol