Forever Secure

[Jethro Bodine]

All sins are forgiven...nailed to the cross....washed by the blood of Christ..ALL...past, present and future.

Yes, washed by the blood.
Now read what happens to those washed and sanctified by the blood of Christ who then trample on that blood in willful unbelief:

Hebrews 10:10,14,26,27,28,29

 

[Cygnus]

Sorry sir, but the phrase “no longer” tells us otherwise.

• there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:26


Jesus Christ the Lamb of God is no longer a sacrifice for their sin, because they no longer believe, having departed Him.




JLB

If Jesus isn't the sacrifice...there no longer is a sacrifice for sin. It has nothing to do with no longer believing.

 

[Cygnus]

Its the simple truth.

You are just denying the plain words of scripture, because the scripture violate you indoctrinated belief system.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


How can a person remain saved if they depart from the faith by which they were saved?




JLB

indoctrinated belief system.....Why would an administrator say such a thing???? I was not indoctrinated into my belief system. I studied hard, dug it out....realized it was the truth. So, please don't say I was indoctrinated.

 

[Cygnus]

Salvation is by a combination of God's grace and man's obedience. Those that "obey not" will be lost 2 Thess 1:8.

There is many times you don't obey Christ...What that means to me is that you have already lost your salvation.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

What you keep forgetting is that faith is a gift from God.

Eph 2;8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Faith is a gift of God in the sense God has allowed man to have faith and be saved. It is NOT a gift of God in the sense one can have faith only if God gives one faith. Such an idea makes God culpable for the faithless. If God alone determines who will or will not have faith, then it would be God's fault for those with 'little faith" (Mt 8:26. Jesus rebuke should have been towards God for the insufficient faith. Why has God commanded men to believe if man cannot choose to believe and God must give man faith? The command to believe implies man has both ability and responsibility to believe.

Exodus 4:1-9 makes absolutely no sense if God must give man faith. Why show men signs to entice man to believe if man cannot possibly choose for himself to believe (Ex 4:5)? And what is the idea behind "if they will not believe (Ex 4:8) if God alone must give man faith? The context of Ex 4:1-9 obviously shows man has the capability to believe within his own heart and has accountability for choosing not to believe.

===================

"gift of God" in Eph 2:8 refers to salvation, not faith.

"There is no specifically-stated antecedent for “gift” in this context. However, it is to be inferred. The gift is the salvation that is implied by the verb “saved.”

“For by grace are you saved through faith; and this not of yourselves, it [the salvation] is gift of God....”

Grammatically speaking, there is no agreement between “faith” and “gift.” Faith (pisteos) in the Greek Testament is a feminine form, while “gift” (doron) is neuter gender. The “gift” is not “faith.”

Some have objected to this argument, contending that the Greek noun for “salvation” is also feminine, thus it cannot be the antecedent of “gift.” While it is true that the Greek noun, “salvation,” is a feminine form, the verbal construction found here used in connection with a neuter pronoun (“this”) requires that the antecedent must also be neuter, thus, “salvation” [understood], not “faith” (see: Lockhart, 86; Cottrell, 200).

Professor Arthur Patzia of Fuller Theological Seminary, who believes, “theologically” speaking, that faith is a gift, acknowledges that “the Greek sentence [Eph. 2:8] does not permit such an identification, because the two words differ grammatically” (185).

Even John Calvin interpreted the “gift” of this passage as “salvation,” and not faith (144). This, of course, is in perfect harmony with Paul’s declaration elsewhere that the “gift of God is eternal life” (Rom. 6:23)."
There is no specifically-stated antecedent for “gift” in this context. However, it is to be inferred. The gift is the salvation that is implied by the verb “saved.”

Is Faith the Gift of Ephesians 2:8?

Based upon a misunderstanding of Ephesians 2:8, some argue that "faith" is a gift from God, and that it is not, therefore, a condition of salvation. This theory is the offspring of Calvinism. This week's question explores this issue.

www.christiancourier.com

Further reading showing "salvation" is the subject of the Eph 2 context, not faith:

Is Faith a Gift from God? - Apologetics Press

“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9, ESV). For centuries, Bible commentators have differed on the precise reference of the pronoun “this” (“that” in KJV, ASV) in...

www.apologeticspress.org

 

[Cygnus]

Yes, washed by the blood.
Now read what happens to those washed and sanctified by the blood of Christ who then trample on that blood in willful unbelief:

Hebrews 10:10,14,26,27,28,29

It is the non-believer who had the knowledge of salvation and trampled on the blood..believing they are sanctified by other means.

 

[Cygnus]

Faith is a gift of God in the sense God has allowed man to have faith and be saved. It is NOT a gift of God in the sense one can have faith only if God gives one faith. Such an idea makes God culpable for the faithless. If God alone determines who will or will not have faith, then it would be God's fault for those with 'little faith" (Mt 8:26. Jesus rebuke should have been towards God for the insufficient faith. Why has God commanded men to believe if man cannot choose to believe and God must give man faith? The command to believe implies man has both ability and responsibility to believe.

Mans lack of faith is due to the fall. Basic christianity 101. God is not culpable for the results of the fall.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There is many times you don't obey Christ...What that means to me is that you have already lost your salvation.

God does not require sinless perfection from the Christian but a faithful obedience. As long as the Christian repents of his sins, he will be saved...1 Jn 1:7 begins with the conditional word IF...if the Christian continues to walk in the light his sins will continue to all be cleansed away. IF the Christian quits walking in the light, quits repenting he will be lost for his sins no longer are washed away.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Mans lack of faith is due to the fall. Basic christianity 101. God is not culpable for the results of the fall.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God Romans 10:17 and is not a gift God randomly, unconditionally gives to some and not others. Therefore when men hear the word, man can choose to believe it in his heart.

 

[Cygnus]

God does not require sinless perfection from the Christian but a faithful obedience. As long as the Christian repents of his sins, he will be saved...1 Jn 1:7 begins with the conditional word IF...if the Christian continues to walk in the light his sins will continue to all be cleansed away. IF the Christian quits walking in the light, quits repenting he will be lost for his sins no longer are washed away.

So, you've repented of all of your sins?

I don't know about you, but, ALL of my sins have been nailed to the cross. ALL of them...past...present...and future. ALL of them.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

So, you've repented of all of your sins?

I don't know about you, but, ALL of my sins have been nailed to the cross. ALL of them...past...present...and future. ALL of them.

Yes, I continue to walk in the light.


Man must repent or perish, Lk 13:3,5.

Christ dying on the cross does not unconditionally forgive man of his sins. Acts 8 Simon believed and was baptized therefore saved per Mk 16:16 as were those Samaritans Acts 8:12-13. Yet Simon sinned, became lost (perish) and was commanded to repent Acts 8:22 meaning all sins (past present and future) are not unconditionally forgiven. God's forgiveness requires repentance.

 

[Cygnus]

Faith comes by hearing the word of God Romans 10:17 and is not a gift God randomly, unconditionally gives to some and not others. Therefore when men hear the word, man can choose to believe it in his heart.

Hearing the Word of God is one means in which a person can receive the gift of faith.

God opens hearts Lydia style...to accept the Word of God.

....As I have clearly demonstrated to you several times in previous post...if free-will theology is correct then your choice is based upon happenstance..the bias of life...and that's not biblical.

 

[Cygnus]

Yes, I continue to walk in the light.


Man must repent or perish, Lk 13:3,5.

Christ dying on the cross does not unconditionally forgive man of his sins. Acts 8 Simon believed and was baptized therefore saved per Mk 16:16 as were those Samaritans Acts 8:12-13. Yet Simon sinned, became lost (perish) and was commanded to repent Acts 8:22 meaning all sins (past present and future) are not unconditionally forgiven. God's forgiveness requires repentance.

I no longer repent to have my sins forgiven...that already happened. Now I repent to restore the fellowship I had with God that through sin I moved away from.

Simons prayer was not about salvation.

 

[JLB]

If Jesus isn't the sacrifice...there no longer is a sacrifice for sin. I

yes. Jesus is no longer the sacrifice for sins.

 

[JLB]

So, you've repented of all of your sins?

I don't know about you, but, ALL of my sins have been nailed to the cross. ALL of them...past...present...and future. ALL of them.

No such thing as future sins being forgiven.


Chapter and verse that says our future sins are forgiven.

 

[JLB]

indoctrinated belief system.....Why would an administrator say such a thing???? I was not indoctrinated into my belief system. I studied hard, dug it out....realized it was the truth. So, please don't say I was indoctrinated.

It’s what your denomination taught you as a young Christian.


Can you answer the question?


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


How can a person remain saved if they depart from the faith by which they were saved?




JLB

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Hearing the Word of God is one means in which a person can receive the gift of faith.

God opens hearts Lydia style...to accept the Word of God.

....As I have clearly demonstrated to you several times in previous post...if free-will theology is correct then your choice is based upon happenstance..the bias of life...and that's not biblical.

Hearing the word of God is the only way the Bible teaches one can have faith.

People hear God's word and determine in their hearts if it is legitimate and reasonable and choose to believe it or not. Thereby making man accountable for being faithless and not God.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I no longer repent to have my sins forgiven...that already happened. Now I repent to restore the fellowship I had with God that through sin I moved away from.

Simons prayer was not about salvation.

Peter said to Simon "Thy money perish with thee,..."

--the word perish apōleia means, according to Thayer,:
"..in particular, the destruction which consists in the loss of eternal life, eternal misery, perdition, the lot of those excluded from the kingdom of God: Revelation 17:8, 11, cf. Revelation 19:20; Philippians 3:19; 2 Peter 3:16.."

--the verb perish is present tense noting a present state condition of Simon be lost.

Acts 8:22 Simon is commanded to repent....the imperative implies a necessity in order to be forgiven of his sin.

Even in the OT, God's chosen people had to repent to be forgiven, 2 Chron 7:14.

Forgiveness of sin is all about salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is the non-believer who had the knowledge of salvation and trampled on the blood..believing they are sanctified by other means.

So, IOW, the passage doesn't really mean what it plainly says.
'Sanctified' isn't really referring to people made perfect in Christ as the text says.
Got it.

 

[JLB]

So, IOW, the passage doesn't really mean what it plainly says.
'Sanctified' isn't really referring to people made perfect in Christ as the text says.
Got it.

Yes. That’s correct. The passage is “no longer” is referring to a sanctified believer, because when it was first written, we didn’t have the benefit and guidance of “Reformed Teachers” to lead us and guide into the “truth“.

The reason it can’t possibly mean what it so plainly says, is because that would change the teachings of Calvinism.

Calvinism is the new truth.

The scriptures themselves can not possibly be understood apart from the teachings of Calvinism, they are just too complicated to understand.

You should know these things, Jethro.




JLB