Forever Secure

[Jethro Bodine]

The scriptures themselves can not possibly be understood apart from the teachings of Calvinism, they are just too complicated to understand.

You should know these things, Jethro.




JLB

My bad.
I'll try to get with the program.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Please post the scripture that says this?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


There are lots of brothers and sisters in Christ that “want to be saved” yet they have hate towards other brothers and sisters.


No one “wants to go to hell”.

“Wanting to be saved” is not the prerequisite for salvation, believing is.

Those who continue to believe will continue to be saved.


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Saved people must “hold fast“ to that word by which they were saved.


If we do not continue to believe, but fall away in unbelief, our initial believing by which we were saved was done in vain.


I simply don’t see how you could disagree with believing to be saved.



JLB

Jesus tells us that He will “ present us before His Father as Blameless”......The Onus is clearly upon His Shoulders.....God says that “ HE will finish the Work that HE started”......One either takes God at His Word or he doesn’t. I Do......that is why I am Saved and can’t go to Hell for “ any” reason....God kinda “ stuck His neck out” on this Salvation thing......all “ we” have to do is “ Turn to Him” and HE will do the rest......I understand what Truly “ Sabbathing” is all about.
When one has something Good , it’s only Natural to want to share it .....that is the only reason I Post at this Site.....a favorite song of mine puts it “ this” way———

“ I’ve got this thing in my heart— I got to share it today.....It only Lives when you give it away”

I want to see “the Captives set Free” .....Trust God , Believe the Gospel Of 1 Cor 15:1-4—- Believe it enough to REST in it and LIVE the Life Of Peace and JOY that God desires for His Children That TRUST HIM .....discover the Secret Of Obedience! Resting in the Assurance That you are Forever Saved Without conjuring up an acceptable Performance to try to Keep and Deserve God’s acceptability will spur a Love for God .....Love is the only thing that will inspire the True Obedience that God desires— the Obedience that comes from the Heart.....doing the Right things because you WANT to—- NOT because you HAVE to.....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus tells us that He will “ present us before His Father as Blameless”....

23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. - Colossians 1:23

...The Onus is clearly upon His Shoulders.....God says that “ HE will finish the Work that HE started”......One either takes God at His Word or he doesn’t.

You have to do your part--KEEP BELIEVING.
That's the condition for God doing his part.
You either take God at his word of God or you don't: Colossians 1:22-23

 

[Cygnus]

yes. Jesus is no longer the sacrifice for sins.

That sounds cultish..you'll need to explain.

 

[Cygnus]

No such thing as future sins being forgiven.


Chapter and verse that says our future sins are forgiven.

Col 2: 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us ALL our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

 

[Cygnus]

Peter said to Simon "Thy money perish with thee,..."

--the word perish apōleia means, according to Thayer,:
"..in particular, the destruction which consists in the loss of eternal life, eternal misery, perdition, the lot of those excluded from the kingdom of God: Revelation 17:8, 11, cf. Revelation 19:20; Philippians 3:19; 2 Peter 3:16.."

--the verb perish is present tense noting a present state condition of Simon be lost.

Acts 8:22 Simon is commanded to repent....the imperative implies a necessity in order to be forgiven of his sin.

Even in the OT, God's chosen people had to repent to be forgiven, 2 Chron 7:14.

Forgiveness of sin is all about salvation.

Some argue Simon never had salvation.

 

[Cygnus]

So, IOW, the passage doesn't really mean what it plainly says.
'Sanctified' isn't really referring to people made perfect in Christ as the text says.
Got it.

I've shown you what it plainly says...maybe the Holy Spirit has presented you with the truth as of yet.

 

[JLB]

My bad.
I'll try to get with the program.

I can see by you changing your avatar picture that you deeply sincere. I know this will be a breakthrough moment for you.


Just stick to the teachings of Calvinism, that why you wont need to do all that studying.


You can just read what Calvinism teaches and be assured of your salvation. Live the way you want to live.

Just be “free”.

Freegrace. Where all your future sins are forgiven.




Amen

 

[JLB]

That sounds cultish..you'll need to explain.

When a person departs from Christ after having received the knowledge of the truth of the Gospel, (returning to Judaism) they no longer have a sacrifice for sins, because they no longer believe Jesus is the Messiah; the Lamb of God that takes away sin.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Col 2: 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us ALL our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Yes brother, a trespass or sin, is something you have actually done. All the trespasses you have done are forgiven.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Col 2: 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us ALL our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Here is the context —

• if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard,

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


To continue to be reconciled we must continue in the faith.





JLB

 

[JLB]

That sounds cultish..you'll need to explain.

Can you answer the question?


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


How can a person remain saved if they depart from the faith by which they were saved?

 

[JLB]

Jesus tells us that He will “ present us before His Father as Blameless”.....

if we continue in the faith.

• to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith,

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23




JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I've shown you what it plainly says...maybe the Holy Spirit has presented you with the truth as of yet.

Show me in Hebrews 10 where it plainly says 'sanctified' means an unbeliever.
I showed you where it plainly says 'sanctified' means the person made perfect in Jesus.

10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. - Hebrews 10:10

14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. - Hebrews 10:14

29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? - Hebrews 10:29

Now you show me in the chapter where it says 'sanctified' is referring to an unbeliever 'not really' sanctified in Christ.
OSAS has taught you to make the passage mean 'not really' sanctified in Christ in order to guard it's doctrine that sanctified believers can not go to hell.
But surely you can see for yourself that's not what it says.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Ok. Take your time. We all enjoy discussing these things with you. let’s discuss the actual Gospel and the words used in the Gospel so we can be on the same page.

See you when you return.



JLB

Actually it is scripturally sound to say "believe in him" = Saved

John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Acts 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved - you and your household."

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." - Mark 9:7 Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!" Matthew 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed, blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Even with Jesus..........standing in front of him........after being dead..........he was doubting, so I REALLY do know that it has to do with who Jesus IS and what REALLY happened with him.

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

The gospel is not the laws wrapped up in a new package. The gospel is Jesus and the power over death. We have been raised with Christ.

Colossians 3:1-3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

I sure hope we all can get on the same page. Truthfully my energy is depleted currently. The devil is prowling around my life in the form of my sibling and I'm trying to resist.

The gospel is the good news of Jesus and what he accomplished on the cross and his resurrection from the dead.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I suspect, based on what you've said, that you don't have a Luke 18:13-14 kind of conversion experience.
I have talked to more than one person on-line who's view of salvation is skewed because they don't have this.
I suspect you are actually the one who has yet to humble themselves as a child. Until you have a Luke 18:13-14 experience you have not done this.

Nope, I did not receive revelation that way. I told you it was...

Matthew 16:15-17
then this...
Romans 10:9

You will hear me promoting revelation of Jesus more than you hear me talking about how sinful we are, cause that is a given! If people don't know how sinful humans are, they will not even be looking in the direction of Jesus. Jesus speaks of hell and that is not something people like to discuss if they live their lives selfishly and purposefully rolling over others with "their" agendas.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Nope, I did not receive revelation that way.

I did not say you did not receive REVELATION that way.
I suggest you did not receive SALVATION that way.
Revelation alone is not enough to save a person.
You must put your trust in what God has revealed to you about the Son to be saved.
Demons have a far, far better revelation of who the Son is then you and I have and it does not save them in the least.
If anything, it insures their just condemnation.

I told you it was...

Matthew 16:15-17
then this...
Romans 10:9

This is fine.
But the whole counsel of scripture, even right there in Romans, shows us salvation is about having yours sins forgiven by the blood of Christ, not just simply acknowledging the facts of who he is.

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! - Romans 5:9

"7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace " - Ephesians 1:7

"13For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." - Colossians 1:13

It's about the forgiveness of sin through his blood. That's how you get saved. The revelation of who Christ is is just the beginning.

I've had people on-line tell me salvation is not by having your sins forgiven. One of them was a missionary!
I thought, oh my, how can professing believers not know salvation is by having your sin guilt removed by the blood of Jesus?
I realize now that is where a lot of misguided doctrine about salvation comes from in the church--people with stunted or incomplete salvation experiences. I've noticed I have little to no doctrinal disconnects with people who were saved by a complete understanding of receiving God's forgiveness through the blood. I was amazed to learn that there are some people who simply do not have this experience, yet they call themselves believers. These people are the one's I get the most grief and friction from about doctrine. I guess I'm not sure where to put you just yet.

You will hear me promoting revelation of Jesus more than you hear me talking about how sinful we are, cause that is a given! If people don't know how sinful humans are, they will not even be looking in the direction of Jesus. Jesus speaks of hell and that is not something people like to discuss if they live their lives selfishly and purposefully rolling over others with "their" agendas.

You're a very confusing person.
You start with your revelation theology but then end up defending what I've been saying.
I say talk about a person's personal sin and guilt before God.
THEN give them a revelation about Jesus and the forgiveness of sin he offers.
Because revelation alone is not enough to save a person.
You have to put your trust in what has been revealed to you to be saved.

"...Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." - 1 John 2:1-2

"...it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." - 1 John 5:9-11

 

[Cygnus]

You can just read what Calvinism teaches and be assured of your salvation. Live the way you want to live.

Strawman argument alert.

 

[Cygnus]

When a person departs from Christ after having received the knowledge of the truth of the Gospel, (returning to Judaism) they no longer have a sacrifice for sins, because they no longer believe Jesus is the Messiah; the Lamb of God that takes away sin.


JLB

Ecactly....Jesus is the only way. At a future date God may give them the gift of faith and regenerate them.

 

[Cygnus]

Yes brother, a trespass or sin, is something you have actually done. All the trespasses you have done are forgiven.




JLB

Future is part of the "all".

All my sins were nailed to the cross 2,000 years ago and I wasn't even born yet.