Free Will, Predeterminism and Predestination

[Dorothy Mae]

You don't get to believe just whenever you want to believe.

I don’t. That never mentions when the Holy Spirit does what as you claim it does. You seem to think you get to believe just whatever you want ignoring scripture.

Faith is a gift from God and comes to you when God decides to send the testimony of the Holy Spirit to you.

That’s what you think you have the right to believe. Jesus chided his disciples for their lack of faith. In your mind, he should’ve complained to God for not granting it.

I was in my late teens when God came to me in the conviction and power of the Holy Spirit. No salvation was going to occur until God did that. And he did that at his choosing, not mine.

You assume you know all God is doing and did. You also accuse Him of evil.

You gotta understand you can freely choose the gospel when God makes it available to you.

No Bible verse supports that awful doctrine.

That's you exercising your free will inside the confines of God's will. The Holy Spirit moves as He wills, not as you will.

John 3:8
8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

That doesn’t come anywhere close to what you claim. You claim control of man. That verse actually says no control.

There is so much off in what you say…

 

[Cooper]

This is all so dreadful.
.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don’t. That never mentions when the Holy Spirit does what as you claim it does. You seem to think you get to believe just whatever you want ignoring scripture.

The weight of scripture has been on my side in this discussion. That's where my position comes from. You don't even post scripture. Most Christians don't know scripture. They just know what they think is true, and must be true.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That’s what you think you have the right to believe. Jesus chided his disciples for their lack of faith. In your mind, he should’ve complained to God for not granting it.

It's not that it wasn't available to them. They either resisted it, or, more likely, like most of us believers, they did not cultivate it in their lives. But regardless, it's a gift. It does not come from a person themselves. And God is ultimately in control of when and where the opportunity to have faith is given. We are free to avail ourselves of it, but only when and where God makes it available. Again, our free will operates within the boundaries of God's will.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You assume you know all God is doing and did. You also accuse Him of evil.

How stupid. I will ignore this.
I'm beginning not to like you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No Bible verse supports that awful doctrine.

Yes, I guess I should start posting scripture to support my view, right, lol?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That doesn’t come anywhere close to what you claim. You claim control of man. That verse actually says no control.

READ THE VERSE. The Holy Spirit moves as he wishes, not as you or I wish.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is all so dreadful.
.

What is dreadful is what people have made Christianity these days. People look right at the plain words of scripture and still insist that what they think must be right is the truth and just flat out reject the plain words of the Bible. I know why it's like this. Most Christians are born of water, but they are not born of the Spirit. I immediately come to that conclusion anytime somebody in the church rejects the plain words of a verse or passage of scripture.

Difference of opinion is fine in the case of scripture that leaves room for that, but to look at the plain words of scripture and reject them in favor of 'what I think is right is what is right' is the sign you are dealing with a person who has the water part of salvation down, perhaps, but has not been born of the Spirit yet. Just being honest here, folks. I named no names. And it applies to whom it applies. Frankly, I'm getting tired of the dishonesty in the church today.

 

[jasonc]

No, eventually a man dies and the striving is over.

Before that

My spirit shall not strive with man forever.

That's said before the flood .

When you take the mark of the beast .the Bible never says that it's oh they changed their mind .none of them do .

Now you can argue with the mentioning of the two witnesses as the earth quake occurs and many repemt.but no one in heaven has any mark of the beast on them .

You just can't fathom God giving up and simply letting.

All manner of sin maybe forgiven save blaspheme of the Holy Ghost .


Sounds like God said nope I'm not forgiving that sin ,you can be sorry all you want I won't buy it because these know who the Spirit is and blaspheme so they wouldn't repent anyway .

You simply can't see God having enough with one man and seeing he won't listen and walk away and sealing his fate .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Before that
That's said before the flood .

Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days

He says that before he pronounced how long a man will live before death. Then the striving ends.

When you take the mark of the beast .the Bible never says that it's oh they changed their mind .none of them do .

That’s history, no worries.

Now you can argue with the mentioning of the two witnesses as the earth quake occurs and many repemt.but no one in heaven has any mark of the beast on them .

You just can't fathom God giving up and simply letting.

All manner of sin maybe forgiven save blaspheme of the Holy Ghost .


Sounds like God said nope I'm not forgiving that sin ,you can be sorry all you want I won't buy it because these know who the Spirit is and blaspheme so they wouldn't repent anyway .

You simply can't see God having enough with one man and seeing he won't listen and walk away and sealing his fate .

Correct, that scripture refers to length of live.

 

[jasonc]

It's not that it wasn't available to them. They either resisted it, or, more likely, like most of us believers, they did not cultivate it in their lives. But regardless, it's a gift. It does not come from a person themselves. And God is ultimately in control of when and where the opportunity to have faith is given. We are free to avail ourselves of it, but only when and where God makes it available. Again, our free will operates within the boundaries of God's will.

I'm sure these can say I choose what sex, nationality I was and ,also what the tommorow will bring because they can by themselves do what God does.

No God allows sin for his purpose and bounds men's plans .

God ordains the steps the of righteous.
The Good and the bad ,do that he can be Glorified .

Romans 8 :28.

My brother said this ,he is big time anti Calvinist and said it in front of my pastor who is reformed .

"Dad ,God made him the black sheep of a Jewish family so that myself and Jason could be saved ".

I walked up to him and said why how reformed of you to say that .not that I didn't see God orchestrating that .I don't fully know why God allowed that but I'm grateful he did

 

[jasonc]

Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days

He says that before he pronounced how long a man will live before death. Then the striving ends.


That’s history, no worries.

Correct, that scripture refers to length of live.

So when Jesus returns everyone Repents?

No when Jesus comes back it's too late it's not offered .

You literally twist that to mean even then when he comes in the clouds .you can simply repent .

When the flood started and the door closed .the people outside sureky remembered and couldn't get in .

They didn't just die in the few hours of rain .those that could did try .it wasn't like Noah didn't preach to all he could so they had to have been near him .did he fly ,rude a car?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No it doesnt say elected through faith, thats a blatant falsity. They were chosen to salvation, by the sanctification of the Spirit to belief of the Truth. Salvation by the Spirits work results in belief of the Truth, which is Faith.

Here, this will help you see it doesn't say 'to have' faith, but rather 'through', or 'by' faith.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 - Stand Firm

But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.

biblehub.com

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So when Jesus returns everyone Repents?

No when Jesus comes back it's too late it's not offered .

You literally twist that to mean even then when he comes in the clouds .you can simply repent .

When the flood started and the door closed .the people outside sureky remembered and couldn't get in .

They didn't just die in the few hours of rain .those that could did try .it wasn't like Noah didn't preach to all he could so they had to have been near him .did he fly ,rude a car?

Reminds me of Esau.

Hebrews 12:16-17
16See to it that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his birthright. 17For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected. He could find no ground for repentance, though he sought the blessing with tears.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So when Jesus returns everyone Repents?

Not that I ever heard of.

No when Jesus comes back it's too late it's not offered .

You literally twist that to mean even then when he comes in the clouds .you can simply repent .

No, I said nothing of the sort.

When the flood started and the door closed .the people outside sureky remembered and couldn't get in .

They didn't just die in the few hours of rain .those that could did try .it wasn't like Noah didn't preach to all he could so they had to have been near him .did he fly ,rude a car?

Ok. This is significant because….

 

[jasonc]

Not that I ever heard of.

No, I said nothing of the sort.

Ok. This is significant because….

Because the rain didn't kill them the flooding did .you die in the rain it's the flood that takes you under or slides you into a Rock.



.so until they died . .God sealed the door to the ark .

Yet you imply that he wouldnt seal your fate .

There a pattern here .

Once I say I judge in that day it's too late .
The door closed .rain fall .they died .

When jesursalem is surrounded you flee .

Those that didn't all died .no chance given by the Romans to live once they refused to surrender and no Christ follower was executed or taken captive by Rome.

The words of Jesus at the cry of the bridegroom .

Be awake and have your candle lit.

It's the same thing Jethro is saying .once you reach that hardness God says ok .I know you won't so have at it.

Kindly tell me how I. Can blaspheme the Holy Ghost and be forgiven ?

 

[jasonc]

Romans one and that warning against blaspheme the Holy Spirit .

I bet they that do that also fit that quite well .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Kindly tell me how I. Can blaspheme the Holy Ghost and be forgiven ?

Don’t do it!!! That’s my kind advise.

 

[jasonc]

Don’t do it!!! That’s my kind advise.

Yet some will .surely the God keys them and gives them that delusion .

These choose this knowing who God is and he hardened their hearts.

Miss ad 70 didn't see that in Josephus when he mentions how the pharisees acted towards Rome .it was if God meant for them to die and the temple to be burned .
Jesus said that they did blaspheme the Holy Ghost .

Now if man can choose that hardness why can't God simply let them and send a delision to judge them?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Kindly tell me how I. Can blaspheme the Holy Ghost and be forgiven ?