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Free Will, Predeterminism and Predestination

wondering said:
It's like we don't try to understand each other.
We just all want to be right.
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Not true...both statements.
wondering said:
I don't think anyone on this forum knows God 100%.
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Some know Him a lot better than others. Find one of these and one can learn a lot.
wondering said:
Paul said we see through a glass darkly.
God is bigger than we all think.

I think the maze was the problem, not necessarily what was running through it.
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No, insisting God treats men like animals is the problem. God is accused of evil. If a man kept his children in a maze feeding them to get them to go where he wants, we would call him a monster.
 
seeker2122 said:
So we know that one of the attributes of God is that he is all-knowing and all-present,
which means that he knows everything past, present, and future.

We're told that we have also been given free will to make our own choices.

However, this would mean that nothing we choose out of our free will would come as a "surprise" to God as if he didn't know that was going to happen. He already knows then what choices we are going to make now and the future.

So this means 1 of 2 things.
Either
A) Everything is already predetermined and predestined by God and he knows all that will happen because he is not limited to time but outside of time which means seeing the past and future is simultaneous for him. There is only one universe/timeline that is going to play out and nothing else that would "surprise" God like a "twist" he didn't see coming.

or

B) God has created an infinite number of timelines/multiverses that exist BASED on every possible choice that every single human being makes in the history of this timeline. In other words, God would still know the outcome of all the infinite other possible timelines based on what choice I make today. So we still have free will to choose which timeline we are going to play out based on the choices I make today, right here, right now. God doesn't actually know which timeline I'm going to play out because it's my free will to choose BUT he does know what the outcome and entire timeline of every possible choice I make. (Follow me on this: So God already knows my entire life and timeline if I choose to disobey him and not live the life He wants for me AND he knows the entire life and timeline if I choose to obey him and follow him wholeheartedly. All the possible outcomes he already knows, but since we have free will, He is allows us to choose which timeline we are actually going to play out and that is the only part He doesn't actually know what I'll choose.

Please comment or correct me.
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I like your insight and ability to deeply think about these things and then express them for us.

Has anyone ever shown you the "Scroll of the Lord"? Based upon what you've written today, I believe that you will see how what you have written relates to what God has written. The below is a snapshot in time using the lives of creatures to demonstrate that what is written in this Scroll [is] executed. The Plans are "logged" and recorded and will be fulfilled by the Power of the Spirit.

Isaiah 34:15-17 NIV - "The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together. 17 He allots their portions; his hand distributes them by measure. They will possess it forever and dwell there from generation to generation."

Only our Powerful, Almighty God is capable of completing such a ridiculously Powerful act such as determining all events, including the thoughts of predators that would likely hunt down these creatures, preventing the Scroll of the Lord from being fulfilled. The Lord is in control of all things to ensure the lives of even the meager owls and falcons. How much more, then, does this Scroll apply to us?
 
Dorothy Mae said:
When you stand before the living God, you will have to give an answer as to why you accuse Him of handling men like rats.
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God can make you go anywhere He wants you to go, and keep you anywhere He wants to keep you. Just like a rat in a maze. You're not as strong and independent as you think you are.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
God can make you go anywhere He wants you to go, and keep you anywhere He wants to keep you. Just like a rat in a maze. You're not as strong and independent as you think you are.
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The rats go where they want within the maze, fighting all the time, while god feeds them from above.
.
 
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Jethro Bodine said:
God can make you go anywhere He wants you to go, and keep you anywhere He wants to keep you. Just like a rat in a maze. You're not as strong and independent as you think you are.
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Something about say not we will do this tommorow ,but rather if God wills .for tomorrow isn't promised .

But nah God is like the diest version ..
 
jasonc said:
Something about say not we will do this tommorow ,but rather if God wills .for tomorrow isn't promised .

But nah God is like the diest version ..
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James 4:13-16
13Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business, and make a profit.” 14You do not even know what will happen tomorrow! What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

15Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord is willing, we will live and do this or that.” 16As it is, you boast in your proud intentions. All such boasting is evil.

You've been batting a thousand on this subject.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
James 4:13-16
13Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business, and make a profit.” 14You do not even know what will happen tomorrow! What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

15Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord is willing, we will live and do this or that.” 16As it is, you boast in your proud intentions. All such boasting is evil.

You've been batting a thousand on this subject.
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I'm in a spot that i in part put myself .I learned what I can control ,that isn't much .

I can't control the choices of others .only how I react .I also wanted to change jobs .God hasn't opened that door .there are other things I need to change but simply can't .God can
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Not true...both statements.

Some know Him a lot better than others. Find one of these and one can learn a lot.

No, insisting God treats men like animals is the problem. God is accused of evil. If a man kept his children in a maze feeding them to get them to go where he wants, we would call him a monster.
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I don't think @Jethro is properly represented by your statements.
I tried to explain back there somewhere but it had no effect.
So we'll leave the maze and move on.
 
for_his_glory said:
To know God's plans for us is to know His will. How do we know His will is by reading His word to know God's will is to accept His Son Christ Jesus as our Lord and Savior and walk in the newness of life as we walk in the unity of His Holy Spirit as the unity is of love for one another.
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I always thought God's plan for us was different for each individual besides loving Christ as our personal savior. It's confusing because i am always seeing post that reflect their personal wants that are not being answered. For instance. God doesn't want me to marry because he hasn't provided a spouse or i guess it wasn't in God's plan for me to get that job because i didn't get it, etc.
 
returntosender said:
I always thought God's plan for us was different for each individual besides loving Christ as our personal savior. It's confusing because i am always seeing post that reflect their personal wants that are not being answered. For instance. God doesn't want me to marry because he hasn't provided a spouse or i guess it wasn't in God's plan for me to get that job because i didn't get it, etc.
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It is best if a believe asks their Heavenly Father what He wants them to do. It is not good to go by circumstances. God is not micromanaging the world. He is certainly not micromanaging us and our decisions. Any honest individual can testify to that one if they allow the Holy Spirit to examine their deeds and words in the past 24 hours. So if He is not micromanaging our choices, why do we think he is managing the choices of others?

"Ask and keep asking and you shall receive." "If any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God who gives generously."
 
wondering said:

WHO IS THE RULER OF THE EARTH?

God or satan?
christianforums.net
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God reigns supreme. He cursed the earth (Adam), He uses nature as appropriate allowing the Israelites to cross the river for example, and plagues etc. as punishment. One day the curse will be lifted when lion and lamb will lay down side by side. Just don't be thinking every bad thing that happens is God's punishment, it isn't. Hold in your mind that God loves his own and will keep and protect us as his precious children, and because the laws of nature are always in place and ongoing there will always be ice on the road causing accidents and earthquakes under the sea and on land with disastrous results, and that is how it has always been since before Adam and the curse.
.
 
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