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Free Will, Predeterminism and Predestination

Cooper said:
Just remember, the elect did great things for God, and then ask yourself what you have ever done for God.
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The Elect did great things for God before they were born of women , that's why they are the elect and justified .
As for what I've done for God ,that's between Him and I .
 
Cooper said:
One thing I have never asked a Calvinist, so I will ask it now. Are you saying you are better than other Christians, sort of special because you are a Calvinist?
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Nobody is better than anybody , never implied that , and I'm not a Calvinist .
The elect have a special purpose , and that is to make sure the Word of God comes to pass exactly as it's written
 
n2thelight said:
The Elect did great things for God before they were born of women , that's why they are the elect and justified .
As for what I've done for God ,that's between Him and I .
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The elect did great things for God BEFORE they were born of women?
I've never heard this.
Could you explain better and use scripture, please.
 
n2thelight said:
Can't agree with that ,He knows what the Elect will do as they were chosen .Ask yourself a question, why did God interfere in some lives but not others ? Let's look at Paul for an example , was he not persecuting Christians ?

Why did God interfere in his life ? Will say this again ,just because one is saved does not mean they are of the Elect .
God does not know who will chose Him except for the elect whom He already justified even before they were placed in the womb of woman
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What's the difference between the ELECT
and the CHOSEN??

Please use scripture if possible.
 
wondering said:
What's the difference between the ELECT
and the CHOSEN??

Please use scripture if possible.
Click to expand...
Nothing ,the Elect are Chosen


Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

So now let's go to when they were chosen


Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"

 
n2thelight said:
Nothing ,the Elect are Chosen


Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

So now let's go to when they were chosen


Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"
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I agree.
The elect are those that have followed God's salvation plan.
The chosen are those that have followed God's salvation plan.

God is merciful, and loving, and JUST, and gives to all His creation the opportunity to become saved,
because He wishes that none would perish but have everlasting life.

Of course, to receive this, the person must follow the salvation plan that God set into place in the beginning.
Not all do.

Now to the verses you posted:


Acts 9:15
15But the Lord said, “Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel.
16And I will show him how much he must suffer for my name’s sake.”

Paul was indeed chosen.
Judas was indeed chosen.
Mary was indeed chosen.
Abraham was indeed chosen.

They had special missions and God sees to it that His plan will always be carried out.

What YOU have to post as support, is a verse stating that WE ARE ALL chosen.


Following is how the NT teaches us that we will be saved:

1 In John, JESUS states that whosoever believes in Him WILL BE (future tense) saved. NOT IS saved, which would be what your theology would have to state.
John 3:16

2. Ephesians tells us that we ARE SAVED BY FAITH, through the grace of God.
Our faith saves us.
Ephesians 2:8

3. We are justified (saved) by faith alone --- apart from works.
Romans 3:28, Romans 5:1

4. God justifies BY FAITH, those that are unGodly...they are made righteous.
Romans 4:5

5. We do not have a righteousness of our own that comes from the law, but one which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— Our righteousness depends on faith.
Philippians 3:9

*************************************************************************************


Ephesians 1:4-5
4Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
5God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ.

The above does not support predestination.
Read it carefully...

God loved us and chose us IN CHRIST
to be HOLY AND WITHOUT FAULT IN HIS EYES.

God decided in advance, in His Salvation Plan, to adopt us into His family THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.


IOW, God planned HOW we would be saved...
NOT WHO would be saved.

**********************************************************************************************

Could you please post a few verses that state that God chooses who will be saved?
 
wondering said:
I agree.
The elect are those that have followed God's salvation plan.
The chosen are those that have followed God's salvation plan.

God is merciful, and loving, and JUST, and gives to all His creation the opportunity to become saved,
because He wishes that none would perish but have everlasting life.

Of course, to receive this, the person must follow the salvation plan that God set into place in the beginning.
Not all do.

Now to the verses you posted:


Acts 9:15
15But the Lord said, “Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel.
16And I will show him how much he must suffer for my name’s sake.”

Paul was indeed chosen.
Judas was indeed chosen.
Mary was indeed chosen.
Abraham was indeed chosen.

They had special missions and God sees to it that His plan will always be carried out.

What YOU have to post as support, is a verse stating that WE ARE ALL chosen.


Following is how the NT teaches us that we will be saved:

1 In John, JESUS states that whosoever believes in Him WILL BE (future tense) saved. NOT IS saved, which would be what your theology would have to state.
John 3:16

2. Ephesians tells us that we ARE SAVED BY FAITH, through the grace of God.
Our faith saves us.
Ephesians 2:8

3. We are justified (saved) by faith alone --- apart from works.
Romans 3:28, Romans 5:1

4. God justifies BY FAITH, those that are unGodly...they are made righteous.
Romans 4:5

5. We do not have a righteousness of our own that comes from the law, but one which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— Our righteousness depends on faith.
Philippians 3:9

*************************************************************************************


Ephesians 1:4-5
4Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
5God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ.

The above does not support predestination.
Read it carefully...

God loved us and chose us IN CHRIST
to be HOLY AND WITHOUT FAULT IN HIS EYES.

God decided in advance, in His Salvation Plan, to adopt us into His family THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.


IOW, God planned HOW we would be saved...
NOT WHO would be saved.

**********************************************************************************************

Could you please post a few verses that state that God chooses who will be saved?
Click to expand...
Splendid.
.
 
wondering said:
What YOU have to post as support, is a verse stating that WE ARE ALL chosen.
Click to expand...
Can't do that ,as we ALL are not chosen ,it's like that's the difference in freewill ,the Elect don't have it ,they were already justified . Imagine standing before God and asking Him why didn't He interfere with me as you did with them , God is fair . A full 1/3 of God's children followed satan during the overthrow attempt,. At that point in time God could had and would had been just in killing satan and all those that followed him ,but in His mercy He came up with a plan, us being born of women with no remembrance of that age
 
n2thelight said:
but in His mercy He came up with a plan
Click to expand...

What is really cool is that the Lord has always had an Eternal Plan.

Ephesians 3:10-11 NLT - "God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."

God always knew what He was going to do, from beginning to end. And why? We are on display to the unseen Rulers and Authorities of the Heavenly Realms. We are currently a demonstration of God's Almighty Power.

That's pretty incredible, isn't it?!
 
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