Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[Justified not Petrified]

Damnable heresies !

2 Pet 2:1

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


The Most Popular Damnable Heresy in this generation is that of Christ died for everyone in the world to make salvation possible ! The word damnable is the greek word apōleia and means:

destroying, utter destruction

a) of vessels

2) a perishing, ruin, destruction

a) of money

b) the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell

The word heresy is the greek word hairesis and means:

) act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city

2) choosing, choice

3) that which is chosen

4) a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party)

a) of the Sadducees

b) of the Pharisees

c) of the Christians

5) dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims

It is the choosing of a opinion that is opposed to the Christian Faith revealed in scripture !

These opinions are erroneous and destructive !

Now one of the reasons that the lie of Jesus Christ dying for all without to make Salvation merely possible, is because this way man can become his or her own saviour or deliver. If the Death of Christ only provided an opportunity to get saved, if it only made salvation possible or available, then one is saved actually not because of what Christ did, but because of what man does !

This makes man saved or justified by their works, and they become righteous by their obedience, which opposes the Gospel Truth Paul preached here Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

This is a categorical error.
Chosing to receive is not the same as creating.

Logical fallacies- they're not just for breakfast anymore.

 

[childeye]

I bolded the choice for purposes of clarity.

Thanks for the info, but I believe you misunderstand me. The Old Testament which is based on works of the law brought only death because of sin present in mankind. There is no life provided therein. It's as if God had said, I'll make you a deal, you keep all of my commandments and you will be deserving of life and you will be blessed but if not you will be cursed and die. Another way of putting it, the law proved all men to be sinners and all those who were under the commitment to do it, became accursed and deserved death. That is why Paul preached righteousness is by grace through faith. Consequently the law cannot make one righteous by choosing to do it, nor can one choose to attain eternal life through it.

The New Testament is preaching that life and blessing can only come by being made righteous on the inside. And unto God's glory, this righteousness can only come by His bestowing His Spirit upon men by His grace, not by our earning it. That's why all the apostles agreed not to impose the laws of Moses on the non-Jewish believers saying, "Why would we give these laws that we nor our Fathers ever kept? We are believing we will be saved by mercy"... In this way, all self-righteous pride is not allowed to take any credit for righteousness, and love is made pure without vanity or pretense. The Spirit of Christ does fulfill the righteous requirements of the law albeit through faith, not through the ability to excercise prerogative.

In summary, objectively speaking and according to my understanding of the Gosepl, there is/was no choice to live in the Old Testament. Please pardon the semantics that are in play, it can't be helped.

 

[Justified not Petrified]

Joshua 24:15

Lets briefly examine some of the text that the man of sin followers manipulate and pervert to their own destruction, in order to give man the praise for his own salvation !

Joshua 24:15

15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The issue here is not with spiritually dead sinners alienated from the life of God, but to the jewish nation, who had already been established in a national covenant which began back in Ex 20. Here in Joshua they were being exhorted to serve God that had redeemed them out of the House of Bondage in Egypt instead of the strange gods of the Land they now occupied. There is no semblance here because this exhortation goes to people already in a covenantal relationship with God, whereas the unregenerate have no Covenant relationship with God, unless it is still a secret in the counsels of God. However, the Exhortation here is in light of being in a confirmed relationship whereby they had experienced corporate redemption as a people, and in fact had moved into the promised earthly inheritance !

If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

The context here is that choice always exists. Grace is power, not just a gift- the power to choose correctly. If I put gas in my car, it is I who drive and arrive. The distinction to be made is that it is God who made the very atoms by which all things are made. Thusly, all power, glory and dominion belong to Him.

Nevertheless, it is I who drive.
What then- shall I ascend the throne because I can drive? On the other hand, shall I say that I have no part?

We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
​

Only men could complicate such common sense and simplicity.

"The sum of Thy Word is Truth" (capitals mine, out of deference and respect)

 

[childeye]

If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

The context here is that choice always exists. Grace is power, not just a gift- the power to choose correctly. If I put gas in my car, it is I who drive and arrive. The distinction to be made is that it is God who made the very atoms by which all things are made. Thusly, all power, glory and dominion belong to Him.

Nevertheless, it is I who drive.
What then- shall I ascend the throne because I can drive? On the other hand, shall I say that I have no part?

We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
​

Only men could complicate such common sense and simplicity.

"The sum of Thy Word is Truth" (capitals mine, out of deference and respect)

I like what you say here. I also think men complicate things but only because they are not submitted to an unambiguos Truth. Consequently their choices reflect this. All reasoning based upon lies ends in hypocrisy. Consequently while choices must be made, as long as they are made in blindness they are not made freely. Hence we battle against spiritual powers of darkness, the enemy of Light.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Makes God out of a Fool !


Eph 3:9-11

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Another indictment against the False Teaching of Christ died for everyone without exception is that its a direct insult to the very Wisdom of God centered in His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus. It makes of God purposing to save His People whom Christ died for even knowing that it would not accomplish all His desire. He would sacrifice His Only Begotten Son for millions who would wind up in hell. This makes scriptures like Rom 11:33-36

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

It makes God out to be liken unto the foolish builder Lk 14:28-30

28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.


Yes, God had the perfect plan in place to execute to save all for whom He Loved, to only have it come up short, He was not able to finish it !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Deny's the Justice of God !

The man of sin religions, preaching that Christ died for all men without exception, and yet all men without exception shall not be saved and shall die in their sins, it therefore deny's the Justice of God !

The scripture gospel states that Christ died for our sins according to the scripture 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Isa 53:5

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Now if Christ was punished for ones sins, and that same one must be punished for their own sins, God's Justice is a lie, its non existent !

Christ appeasing God's Justice or propitiation was false !

 

[savedbygrace57]

God's Justice impugned !


The antichrist ministers and followers Blaspheme because they Teach that even those Christ hath satisfied the Demands of God's Law and Justice in behalf of, that they will still in the end have the Law in force against them Matt 25:41

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

ye cursed;


for having sinned against God, and his righteous law, they are cursed by it,
which curses everyone that is under its works, as these were, and do not
perfectly fulfil whatsoever it requires; and so were justly rejected of God, and
hated by him: and therefore are condemned and sent, John Gill

The antichrist followers say that even though Christ, for whom He died, redeemed them from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for them Gal 3:13

That nevertheless, because they did not do something, They will be pronounced cursed again by God's Law as we see here ! This makes God Unjust, a God of Double Jeopardy ! He acquitted them once for Christ's sake, but because They did not perform a condition, He took away the acquittal and charged them with the crimes they had committed and punishes them for them..

 

[savedbygrace57]

God's Justice impugned cont

The man of sins religions corrupt the Justice of God, because they are teaching millions for whom Christ died, shall go to hell for their sins. God's Justice can be called into question if that is True, simply because everyone Christ died for have a Legal Right and entitlement to Eternal Life, based upon the Righteousness of Jesus Christ Rom 6:23

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 5:21

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wages of sin Paul mentions in Rom 6:23, which is death, has been paid by Christ, for all that He died for, hence 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Thats the Legal Death for the sins wages Rom 6:23, God's Justice has been satisfied through Christ, now Grace must reign through Righteousness [Christ's Righteousness] unto Eternal Life through Jesus Christ.

In Rom 5:21 the word for righteousness, as through righteousness,it means:

in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due

God's Righteousness and Justice must give what is due for all those Christ acted as a Surety in behalf of, and that which is due, since their is no sin recorded against them, is Life, and that Everlastingly. Righteousness demands Life Prov 12:28, Rom 5:18, Now if all for whom Christ died do not receive Life Everlasting, as an Experiential Enjoyment for ever, God is Unjust to the Accomplishment of Christ's Surety Work for all He contracted to be their Surety before the foundation of the World !

 

[savedbygrace57]

God is Just !


Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The man of sin religions and followers make God out to be a Unjust God, in that they falsely teach that many, yes millions upon millions for whom Christ died, shall died in their sins, because they did not meet some kind of condition. This however must be false teaching because the Imputation of all their sins had been laid upon Him Isa 53:6, and in consequence of that, He endured their punishment, yes all the punishment that their sins deserved by Divine Justice, He was even made a curse for them Gal 3:13, that is [in their stead], The Father's sword of Divine Justice smote Him Zech 13:7.

The Lord Jesus Christ paid all of the penal consequences for all whom He died, so Paul proclaims of them Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

And now all Law and Justice has been fully Satisfied, so that God is and must be Just in Justifying all that are believing in Jesus. God must be Just in putting away and forgiving all sin of those Christ died for or in behalf of ! The Man of sin religions deny God's Justice !

 

[savedbygrace57]

It is not our believing !


It is nor our believing that makes God Just to forgive our sins, nor ones confessing 1 Jn 1:9, but solely the Blood of Christ, for it was His Blood that put away the sins of the Church, even before they become Believers; Nor does it take for one to believe in Jesus, in order for Jesus to have died for them and put away their sins. Before a modern day believer is even born a sinner, all of their sins and trespasses are already forgiven based on redemption through His Blood and for Christ's Sake. Eph 1:7

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 4:32

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Note: Forgiveness of sins is not for the sake of our believing, or repenting, but God does it for Christ's Sake ! Ps 25:11

For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.

Isa 43:25

I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Now this forgiveness for Christ's Sake, who is God Man, takes in the consideration of all sins, before and after New Birth, and all types of sins, of omission and comission, with all sins of the heart and thoughts, and tongue !

 

[savedbygrace57]

God failed at His Purpose in sending Christ to Die !

The man of sin religion comprised of many religions, have this in common, they deny that God has been successful in His Purpose for sending Christ to die for sinners. They teach God has failed. For scripture teaches that Christ came to give His Life for many Matt 20:28, that He should suffer for their sins, The Just for the unjust 1 Pet 3:18, with the fruit being that He would bring them to God, that is Repentance Towards God Acts 20:21 ; Heb 6:1; 1 Thess 1:9

For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

That we being dead to sin [through the body of Christ] should live unto Righteousness 1 Pet 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

They Teach that God's Purpose has failed in Christ in bringing all for whom He Gave Christ to die for, That all will not experience Turning to God in Repentance and from serving Idols to serve the True Living God. They teach that millions whom God desired this for through Christ's Work, shall yet perish in their sins as unbelievers, hence God's Purpose failed !

 

[smaller]

My objection 'in fact' of scripture to determinist teachings of no freewill is that the holders of determinism are also subject to the entrance of the tempter in mind to tempt, placing sinning evil thoughts therein, which are in fact sins even if they don't show up on the outside.

Determinists and freewillers alike seem to always be led to bypass this matter, personally applied.

There is no need for any believer 'in Truth' to deny this happens within themselves, and even less reason to lie about it.

When we stand before God in Christ on this present earth, none of us factually stand alone, even if 'we' are blinded to the fact by that bad operator.

How encompassing are the determinist positions then? Not much at all when facts of temptation of the tempter are not put forth. It's not just about 'us' as believers, but also of that other factual working.

Few seem able to factor this matter into their understandings because it is a real present working power in the minds of everyone. Believers are supposed to know and not to try to scuff this fact off, defer, cover, excuse, etc etc etc.

No tempting spirit 'in man' can stand under Law or Grace. Therefore there is an internal division that only God Himself can bring any of us to 'realize.'

When this matter of truthful fact comes into mind, which I expect God in Christ to bring, views change into truthful divisions within and doctrines also must change to factor facts.

Determinists can coat themselves all the day long with all and only the good things of Gods Words. Fact is every bad Word of God WILL APPLY to that other working 'we all' carry in our minds and hearts that 'is not us' as believers. The other working of course will continue to resist this matter 'in believers' and such will continue to be ever hardened by The Word until the fact is known.

I know by Word disclosure and I know the above to be a factual matter. There is no gain to be had in lying, nor should we allow ourselves to be pawned into that position by the ultimate liar.

enjoy!

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

God Failed His intention according to False Religion !


Scripture presents a Truth of Christ giving Himself for a People for a specific Purpose as Per Eph 5:25-26

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Also Gal 1:4-5

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

False Religion teaches that God's objective for which He willed for all those Christ gave Himself for, was not successful.

If they all were not sanctified and cleansed by the washing of water by the word, God failed;

And if they all were not delivered from this present world, according to the will of God, God has Failed.

Those who teach such, are antichrist !

 

[savedbygrace57]

A Big Lie !

One of the biggest lies ever told in apostate religion these days is that Salvation, Eternal Life is an offer, however no such lie is ever taught in scripture.

The Gift of God is given, and its received only as its been given. In other words, God giving automatically means it's received !

The dictionary defines the word Gift as:


gift
   [gift] Show IPA

noun
1.
something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.

2.
the act of giving.

3.
something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned: Those extra points he got in the game were a total gift.

4.
a special ability or capacity; natural endowment; talent: the gift of saying the right thing at the right time.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gift

Its [Eternal Life] said to be the Gift of God Rom 6:23

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Gift of God is received Just as the wages of sin were received.

The Gift is bestowed or confer upon all for whom Christ died. It also means to impart or communicate the Gift of Eternal Life.

The main Truth is that its something that is done effectually. Now those of us who teach that Eternal Life is offered, thats telling a Lie.

Jn 10:28

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jn 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

1 Jn 5:11

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.


Lk 1:77

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

 

[Elijah674]

Gen. 4
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
[5] But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

(and you just keep your eye open for these Cain ones of today!)
[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
[8] And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
____

And God in His personal Word said to Cain..

[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

(surely satan was there just waiting for his first full fledged convert! Never was there in the past any hint to the 'now' mature Cain and his disobedience)

and Cain said what?? my salvation is a given by you 'l'ord, it cannot now be taken back! there were & are NO CONDITIONS! No, but these are the famous last words of some Cain's now desired ones of today. Gen. 3 'ye shall not surely die' is satan's lie being told over & over & over again! Eccl. 3:15

--Elijah

 

[Levi]

WOW this thread is still going?

 

[childeye]

WOW this thread is still going?

Apparrantly it's fate.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ died for the sin of unbelief like He died for any other sin !


1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Pet 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Unbelief is a sin according to God's word Rom 14:23

And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

This apply's to the believer and unbeliever ! Unbelief in the unregenerate makes God a Liar 1 Jn 5:10

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Even the Elect, while unregenerate, and opposing the external revelation of the Gospel, its doctrines and Truth's, we are sinning and making God a Liar, because at that time we believe not the record or testimony God gave of His Son, through a faithful witness of the Gospel of Christ, as to who He is, and what He has accomplished for God and God's Chosen People !

Ps 78:31-32

31The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.

32For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.

Another scripture that clearly identifies unbelief as a sin !

Now, if Christ died for ones sins, it covers all their trespasses Col 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Ps 85:2

Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.

If Christ died for our sins, then unbelief is included and it would be unjust for God to punish anyone Christ died for because of their unbelief, and in fact He doesn't, because He cannot deny Himself His Faithfulness to the accomplishments of His Son's Death , so Paul writes 2 Tim 2:13

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

God must be Faithful and Just to forgive our sins, for Christ's sake 1 Jn 1:9

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This action of God's is not predicated upon our confessing our sins as it may seem to be saying, but upon the Work of Christ on our behalf !

Anyone teaching that people go to hell for unbelief, in spite of the fact that Christ died for all their sins, they teach a false gospel, and make God to be unjust !

 

[childeye]

The reason I have an aversion to the term freewill is because it conveniently glosses over why someone chooses the way they choose by implying there are no powers higher than us working in our wills.

 

[Elijah674]

The reason I have an aversion to the term freewill is because it conveniently glosses over why someone chooses the way they choose by implying there are no powers higher than us working in our wills.

Rom. 4
'.... even God, (ALONE!) who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Herein lay's some problems. Man say's that he is OSAS because of his 'faith/lessl/ness' claiming + teaching, that they can do what ONLY GOD HAS FOR/KNOWN!

--Elijah