Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[Cassian]

Unprofitableness of Duty Faith and Repentance !

Luke 17:10

10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

The Anti Christ followers are big on this doing a duty or obeying a command in order for God to save them, as though they did something to deserve it !

But look at the fate of the unprofitable servant that relies on his commandment keeping for salvation ! Matt 25:30

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But the Natural man is always going to have that mentality that salvation comes through them paying a debt of duty, and they neglect that Jesus Christ has paid that debt which God's Chosen People owed, but they will refuse to bow to that Revelation in the Gospel of God !

which has very little to do with scripture.

You have this hypothetical strawman and build your theology around him and then proceed to knock him down. You are not even dealing with the real world here, let alone scripture.

You have a very confused concept of salvation, the whole plan. Very little of what you say can even be aligned with scripture in any sense. You cut and paste similiar words in different contexts building a idealogy.

 

[savedbygrace57]

He came to save sinners, not to make them savable !

1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Many do not believe this verse even though they quote it often. What the religious world believes about this verse is that it should read:

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to make sinners savable; of whom I am chief.

However, Paul had it correct, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, and so sinners He must and will save, for He is God Man ! Lets look at a few more verses Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Believe it or not folks, the sinners He came to save and shall save here are the same people !

The same also here Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

The same to save as in 1 Tim 1:15 . Now did He come to save all sinners without exception ? No He did not, for Matt 1:21 makes that pinpoint clear, however it is understood that the Father sent Him for this specific purpose,m to save sinners, that is the work the Father gave Him to do, not to attempt to do it, but to do it and finish it ! Jn 4:34

34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Now either He finished the work the Father gave Him to do, which was to save sinners that were Lost, or He did not; Now if He did not save all sinners of whom the Father wanted to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth as Per 1 Tim 2:4, after having finished His work, then Two things are amiss and defective of His Work #1. Christ lied when He said the words it is finished Jn 19:30

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished or paid: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

#2. He failed to accomplish to accomplish the Fathers work which He gave Him to do; and hence scripture also lies when it states Christ was faithful to Him that appointed Him, or that the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His Hand Heb 3:2;Isa 53:10 !

But I am here to Proclaim Loud and Clear, that when Christ died, His Father was Glorified in that matter, for His Justice was satisfied, His Law was magnified, and all the chosen sinners of God were saved. Now were the men of God sent forth to Preach Repentance and the Remission of sins, and all who Repent and Believe the Gospel do but give evidence of Having been saved by Christ's Finished Work, that Work which He said It is Finished to ! Jn 19:30


30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Which work is this Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

That word seek means to Labor, to Work to Endeavor !

 

[savedbygrace57]

What is the it which was imputed to Abraham ?

Rom 4:20-22

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

What is the it here which was imputed to him for righteousness ? This word imputed is the greek word logizomai and means:

to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over

a) to take into account, to make an account of

1) metaph. to pass to one's account, to impute

2) a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight

b) to number among, reckon with

c) to reckon or account

2) to reckon inward, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate

3) by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer

a) to consider, take into account, weigh, meditate on

b) to suppose, deem, judge

c) to determine, purpose, decide

It was the object of Abraham's Faith, the Promise. What was Abraham promised ? Lk 1:67-73

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

That Promise was Christ Our Righteousness ! 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Abraham looked for the promise mercy of Christ being his Righteousness and Sanctification or Holiness before God !

That is the it that was imputed to Abraham for Righteousness, the promised mercy.


Abraham like any other believer had the Righteousness of God revealed to him by the Gospel, for it is written Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

And like it was in the day of Paul and forward the Gospel is according to Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein[The Gospel] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Christ's imputed Righteousness was revealed to Abraham in the Gospel Preached to him, and that is the it, that was imputed to him for Righteousness. For only Two things are ever referred to in scripture as imputed, that be sin and Righteousness, faith is not imputed, it is given !

Rom 4:3

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Again what is the it that was counted or imputed to him for Righteousness ? It was the Promise that was believed, that was his Righteousness. God unconditionally stated to him Gen 15:1

After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Now Paul asked Rom 4:4

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

God did not announce to Abraham that He was his exceeding great reward because of anything Abraham did or believed, but it was an announcement of God's Grace unto him.

God first announced this great blessing to Abraham here Gen 12:1-3

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

All this being revealed to Abraham was God's Sovereign promising, and what had already been settled in His Eternal Decrees, He was now only beginning to reveal to Abraham his interest in these Eternal settlements !

 

[savedbygrace57]

What is the it which was imputed to Abraham ?cont


So what it is, it is that Faith merely discerns that which God hath imputed of Christ Righteousness 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Faith embraces this imputed Righteousness of God that is revealed to Faith from Faith by the Gospel Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Righteousness of God is not offered or made available to faith, but it is revealed ! The word revealed is the greek word apokalyptō:


to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up

a) disclose, make bare

2) to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown

It the Gospel, makes known or discovers to Faith that Righteousness of God that has been charged to your account because Christ was made sin for you as an Individual and because of that you have been made the Righteousness of God in Him. The disclosing of it is not the cause of it !

 

[Jack Straw]

Free will? Hmmmm.......



Ephesians 1:11: "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him WHO WORKS ALL THINGS according to the counsel of HIS WILL."

John 6:44: "No one is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM unto Me."

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the Gift of God."

Romans 9:16: "It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy."

John 15:16: "You have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU."

Romans 3:10-11: "There is none that understands, there is NONE THAT SEEKS after God."

1 Corinthians 4:7: "For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not."

Ephesians 1:4: "According as HE HAS CHOSEN US in Christ before the foundation of the world."

1 Corinthians 12:3: "NO MAN can say Jesus is Lord, BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT."





As far as unbelief.............

Romans 11:8: "Even as it is written, GOD GIVES THEM a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day."

Romans 11:32: "For God has shut up all in unbelief so that He may show mercy to all."

Matthew 13:11: "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

Romans 9:18: "Consequently, then, to whom HE WILL, He is merciful, yet whom HE WILL, He is hardening."





Here are a few more:

Proverbs 16:9: "The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps."

Proverbs 16:33: "The lot is cast in the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord"

Proverbs 20:24: "Man's steps are ordained by the Lord, how then can man understand his way?"

Job 37:19: "WE CANNOT arrange our case because of darkness"

Isaiah 10:15: "Is the axe to boast itself OVER THE ONE who chops with it? Is the saw to exalt itself OVER THE ONE who wields it?"

Roman 9:19: "Who has withstood HIS INTENTION?"

Isaiah 14:27: "For the Lord of Hosts has planned it, who can frustrate it?"

Ephesians 2:10: "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which GOD PREPARED IN ADVANCE for us to do."

Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS."

Proverbs 16:4: "The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, EVEN THE WICKED for the day of evil"

Philippians 2:13: "For it is God who works in you both TO WILL and to do for His good pleasure."

Luke 19:43: "If you knew...what is for your peace! Yet now it was hid from your eyes"

Daniel 4:32: "You will be given grass...until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind"

Isaiah 26:12: "Lord, You will ordain peace for us, for YOU HAVE ALSO DONE IN US AND FOR US ALL OUR WORKS."

Romans 9:20-21: "But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God? Will what is formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump ONE VESSEL FOR BEAUTY AND DISTINCTION AND HONORABLE USE, and ANOTHER FOR MENIAL OR IGNOBLE AND DISHONORABLE USE?"



The question is; "Is God sovereign, or isn't He?" Is God is operating ALL THINGS in accord with the counsel of HIS WILL (Ephesians 1:11), or OUR WILL?

 

[Cassian]

Free will? Hmmmm.......



Ephesians 1:11: "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him WHO WORKS ALL THINGS according to the counsel of HIS WILL."

John 6:44: "No one is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM unto Me."

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the Gift of God."

Romans 9:16: "It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy."

John 15:16: "You have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU."

Romans 3:10-11: "There is none that understands, there is NONE THAT SEEKS after God."

1 Corinthians 4:7: "For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not."

Ephesians 1:4: "According as HE HAS CHOSEN US in Christ before the foundation of the world."

1 Corinthians 12:3: "NO MAN can say Jesus is Lord, BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT."





As far as unbelief.............

Romans 11:8: "Even as it is written, GOD GIVES THEM a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day."

Romans 11:32: "For God has shut up all in unbelief so that He may show mercy to all."

Matthew 13:11: "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

Romans 9:18: "Consequently, then, to whom HE WILL, He is merciful, yet whom HE WILL, He is hardening."





Here are a few more:

Proverbs 16:9: "The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps."

Proverbs 16:33: "The lot is cast in the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord"

Proverbs 20:24: "Man's steps are ordained by the Lord, how then can man understand his way?"

Job 37:19: "WE CANNOT arrange our case because of darkness"

Isaiah 10:15: "Is the axe to boast itself OVER THE ONE who chops with it? Is the saw to exalt itself OVER THE ONE who wields it?"

Roman 9:19: "Who has withstood HIS INTENTION?"

Isaiah 14:27: "For the Lord of Hosts has planned it, who can frustrate it?"

Ephesians 2:10: "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which GOD PREPARED IN ADVANCE for us to do."

Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS."

Proverbs 16:4: "The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, EVEN THE WICKED for the day of evil"

Philippians 2:13: "For it is God who works in you both TO WILL and to do for His good pleasure."

Luke 19:43: "If you knew...what is for your peace! Yet now it was hid from your eyes"

Daniel 4:32: "You will be given grass...until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind"

Isaiah 26:12: "Lord, You will ordain peace for us, for YOU HAVE ALSO DONE IN US AND FOR US ALL OUR WORKS."

Romans 9:20-21: "But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God? Will what is formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump ONE VESSEL FOR BEAUTY AND DISTINCTION AND HONORABLE USE, and ANOTHER FOR MENIAL OR IGNOBLE AND DISHONORABLE USE?"



The question is; "Is God sovereign, or isn't He?" Is God is operating ALL THINGS in accord with the counsel of HIS WILL (Ephesians 1:11), or OUR WILL?

God is Sovereign and He always operates according to His will. But part of the Sovereignty and according to His will is that man would also have a will, and independent will from His.

The texts you posted have nothing to do with man's free will for the most part. A few that you seem to think that God did not create man after His own Image, with a rational soul. There really has never been a dispute regarding man's free will.
These issues only arise within the protestant milieu of sola scriptura where man interprets his own meaning upon scripture and consequently we have many differing views.

 

[Jack Straw]

Originally posted by Cassian,

The texts you posted have nothing to do with man's free will

That is because there is no "man's free will," only God's Will. There is only "the illusion" of free will for man when seen through carnal, worldly eyes.

Free will is a doctrine that teaches that man can act independently of God. This should already put up a red flag to the spiritually-attuned ear.

Do you believe that man's will can operate independently of God? Yes or no?

Of course all people have a "will" ... but that's not the issue. The problem comes from the word "free". To be free means to be independent of influence. Therefore, not even God can influence a free will... nor can Satan. If a human will is influenced, even in the smallest possible way, by anything at all, then that will cannot, by definition, be free.

Free will replaces Christ, and instead, man becomes the deciding factor in his own salvation. Jesus Christ's work on the cross, according to this doctrine, was only a potential salvation, not an actual salvation.... it's one's OWN BELIEF that does the saving. According to this doctrine, the cross of Christ never saved anybody; the cross only saves those who decide to be saved. What about the verse that says "no one can come to Christ unless the Father draws him?" (John 6:44)? That has nothing to do with man's free will? How about: Romans 9:16: "It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy."

Even if Adam had free will, God is responsible for what happened in the Garden. Whatever someone with free will may do, God is responsible for it if He made him a free moral agent with free will. If God made man with free will, then God created within man the propensities for either good or evil which determined his choices. If God made man with free will, He knew beforehand what the result would be, and He would be just as responsible for the acts of that person with free will as He would be for the act of a pre-programmed mechanical "drone" that He made. Man's free will, even if it were true, would by no means clear God from the responsibility of his acts. Why? Because God is his Creator and has made him in the first place just what he is - knowing beforehand what the result would be.

Saving faith is the GIFT OF GOD, NOT AN EXERCISE OF MAN'S "FREE WILL" ... Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the Gift of God."

People must believe, of course, but it is not the old desperately wicked heart or the old carnal mind which believes, but the faith graciously given by God as a gift is the instrument of a person's believing.

An example of this is Lydia who heard the apostles teaching the Word of God, and "whose heart the Lord opened." (Acts 16:14). Who opened her heart to Jesus? Does the Bible teach that the sinner opened her heart to the Lord, or does the Scripture teach that it is THE LORD WHO OPENS HEARTS?

Another example is Lazarus. Lazarus was a physical example of a Spiritual truth. Unregenerate man (not reborn in the Spirit) is DEAD (spiritually). Unregenerate man does not seek the Lord: Romans 3:10-11: "There is none that understands, there is NONE THAT SEEKS after God.... nor does unregenerate man comprehend the things of the Spirit: 1 Corinthians 2:14 "Natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and HE CANNOT UNDERSTAND THEM, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned."

Unregenerate man is (spiritually) dead. Lazarus was a physical "type" of this spiritual truth. Jesus said: "Lazarus, Come forth!" Jesus was and is Himself the Resurrection, and the Life, and at HIS word even the dead live and come to Jesus! Just as Lazarus would never have heard the voice of Jesus, nor would he have ever "come to Jesus," without first being given Life by our Lord, so all men "dead in trespasses and sins," must-first be given Life by God before they can "come to Christ."

Matthew 18:12: "How think you? if a man has a hundred sheep, and ONE OF THEM be gone astray, does he not leave the ninety and nine, and go into the mountains, and seek that which is gone astray?"

The Shepherd will not lose even ONE of them. And the lost sheep do not seek after The Shepherd, but rather, The Shepherd seeks after the lost sheep. The majority of Christendom has it backwards.

Free will is unbiblical. So many believe in free will because it's a tradition of men that's been around for a long time, but it's a lie. Faith and commitment are gifts from God, not something that comes from our own independent WILL within. The danger of the free will doctrine is that the end result can only result in self-righteousness. People believe their good faith and belief are matters of human accomplishment that separate them from those who are less accomplished than they are. They think their commitment and faith are what separate them eternally from those faithless no-good unbelievers who have neither faith nor commitment. People soon forget (if they ever realized) that the source of their faith and belief is from God, and ONLY God, not themselves: 1 Corinthians 4:7: "For what makes you different from anybody else, and what have you got that was not given to you? And if anything has been given to you, WHY BOAST OF IT AS IF YOU HAD ACHIEVED IT YOURSELF?"

Free will is extremely deceptive and dangerous because man becomes the deciding factor in his own salvation. SELF (one's OWN belief in Jesus) becomes Savior, not Jesus Himself and His Sacrifice. Very tricksy!

No one can come to Jesus on their own free will: John 6:44: "NO ONE is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM unto Me."

 

[Grazer]

This is getting very confusing again. I was an atheist, now I'm a Christian, I had a choice whether to accept Christ. I could have said no. We are all influenced by various outside factors but we still have an element of choice. Christ has done all the work, only he can reconcile us to God but I don't believe God forced me into choosing him, I don't believe God has abandoned anyone and everyone has the same choice as I did. It took me a while to get to a place where I was even ready to make the choice (lots of questions needed answering)

Not sure if these got answered but if some could that would be great:

If we don't have freewill to choose Christ

• What does that say about our relationship with Christ?
• What does that say about his relationship with us?
• What does that say about Gods version/interpretation of love?
• What does that mean for those who God hasn't chosen?

If we go as far to say we have no free will at all;

• What does that mean for original sin?
• What does that mean for the concept of good and evil?
• What does that mean for morality as a whole?

 

[childeye]

Savedbygrace57,

God is not in control of man'ss thinking process. We were all created with a rational soul. We make our own decisions.

All is built upon faith and the power of love over reasoning. Consequently a soul that believes God is untrustworthy reasons differently than the soul that trusts in God. The subsequent decisions reflect those beliefs. Therefore a soul that does not trust in God is irrational while the soul that trusts in God is a rational soul.

However, God does direct our paths, He does lead, He does surely influence man's desires and will. But so does satan. It is man alone that decides who he will follow. Neither God nor satan can force man to do against his own will. That is known as free will, and that is what makes man accountable.

But Satan does force men to do against their will in so much that he rules through deception.

You have yet to show any text from scripture that says that God is responsible for the acts of man. or that God does the acts of man. If you can do that, then you will have established that man does not have a free will, even a will.

All of scripture points to Satan as the Father of lies and sin, not mankind. Your next line of reasoning will be to say Satan had a free will. The reasoning of man is confounded by the term freedom because of it's allure through pride to want to believe man is in control of his own destiny.

Subsequently the common reasoning assumes that either God is responsible for man's actions or man is. This reasoning does not account for ignorance of what we cannot help but take for granted as created beings. Or in other words mankind was destined to learn and cherish the Character of God through experiencing the consequences of being apart from Him. In this scenario, the terms responsibility and irresponsibility are merely relative and subjective terms.

 

[Jack Straw]

The ego of carnal man wants to think that SELF did something Godly that has earned them their salvation, and that they are somehow "smarter" than others for "choosing" to believe, while others, who are "not as smart" or "as righteous" as they are, do not choose to believe. This caters to the ego of "the self." Let's face it, that is "works based" salvation. If it takes "the act" of believing in Christ to be saved, then it is "the act" itself that saves, not Christ. It is an extremely subtle deception that has pervaded the church for centuries. If this falsehood was properly understood and recognized for the lie that it is, there would never have been The Rack, The Pear, The Iron Maiden, The Heretic's Fork, The Skull Crusher, The Spiked Chair, Thumb Screws, being Burned AT The Stake, Broken On The Wheel, Drawn And Quartered, Beheaded, etc., nor would there have been countless martyrs throughout the dark history of the church. Religious self-righteousness would never have existed, because Christians would have understood that it is "Christ Himself" who saves, not someone's "act of believing" in Christ.

When someone makes a conscious decision to follow Christ they are simply acknowledging an already established fact; that Jesus had already saved them. In fact, Jesus has already saved EVERYONE, even though many people aren't aware of that...YET. They will eventually become aware of the fact that they are already saved in Christ when GOD CHOOSES TO MAKE HIMSELF KNOWN TO THEM. They can't do this on their own (Romans 3:10-11). They will only come to Christ when GOD DRAWS THEM TO HIM (John 6:44). And as Jesus promised, He will DRAW ALL PEOPLE TO HIMSELF (John 12:32). When He does, ALL will believe.

John 6:44: "NO ONE is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM unto Me."

John 12:32: "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL PEOPLE to Myself."

 

[Cassian]

Jack Straw,

That is because there is no "man's free will," only God's Will. There is only "the illusion" of free will for man when seen through carnal, worldly eyes.
Free will is a doctrine that teaches that man can act independently of God. This should already put up a red flag to the spiritually-attuned ear.

Man has always had free will. It is inherent in the very make up of man, being created in God's image and with a rational soul.

If man is not free then man is not responsible for his actions. God did not desire a creature of the same sort like an animal, but one with a soul. The whole purpose of man's existance depends on man's free will, and God's revelation to man would be meaningless if man did not have a rational soul, a free will.

Do you believe that man's will can operate independently of God? Yes or no?

absolutely. If not, then God is the cause of all actions of man. It is God who sins, not man. There is no need for man to know God, to know what God expects from him in a relationship. YOu have man even worse off that animals, yet God created man like Himself, able to communicate freely with God, to respond to God.

Of course all people have a "will" ... but that's not the issue. The problem comes from the word "free". To be free means to be independent of influence. Therefore, not even God can influence a free will... nor can Satan. If a human will is influenced, even in the smallest possible way, by anything at all, then that will cannot, by definition, be free.

Free will has NEVER meant without influence. That is an autonomous will. Man has a will that is free from force, coercion from outside forces, namely God and satan. Neither God nor satan can force man to do something against man's will. Man would not be responsible for his actions if they were actually done by others. Man operates, and can actually only operate with influences. Man is incapable of creating the influences, they exist mostly external including the flesh or his own passions against his will.

Free will replaces Christ, and instead, man becomes the deciding factor in his own salvation. Jesus Christ's work on the cross, according to this doctrine, was only a potential salvation,

Man's individual salavation has nothing directly to do with Christ's work on the Cross. Christ did not save you individually on the Cross. Christ overcame death and sin which man could not do.

But man was created specifically to have the relationship in which we freely enter into union with Christ. That is why He saved the world from death, for the power of satan, so that God and man could again be united in an eternal relationship, which man enters freely and is the sole determinate of his eternal abode.

this is why most of those texts you cited have nothing to do with man, because they all deal with What Christ did for mankind and the world. Man does not effect or affect anything that Christ did on the Cross. He cannot change it, he cannot add to it, he cannot subtract from it. All men receive God's grace in the salvation from death, from the fall.

Jesus Christ's work on the cross, according to this doctrine, was only a potential salvation, not an actual salvation.... it's one's OWN BELIEF that does the saving. According to this doctrine, the cross of Christ never saved anybody; the cross only saves those who decide to be saved. What about the verse that says "no one can come to Christ unless the Father draws him?" (John 6:44)? That has nothing to do with man's free will? How about: Romans 9:16: "It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy."

there is no potential at all. It is a matter of factual completion that Christ saved the world, Christ overcame death, the power of satan. It is why all Christians have always beleived in the resurrection of the dead. All men were given life, an eternal existance. This is what Col 1:20, II Cor 5:18-9, I Cor 15:22, John 6:39, Rom 5:18, Heb 2:12, Rom 11:32 are all saying.

Christ saved mankind so that man could freely choose again. Without Christ overcoming death, we are all condemned to death through Adam, annihilation, ceasing to exist as human beings, dust to dust, Gen 3:19.

This it is one's one belief, one's own desire, decision to be joined with Christ. Crhist saved all men just so that all men could have the same choice as Adam. So that the Holy Spirit can call all men to repentance, After all, God loves mankind, He created man to have an eternal union with Him, why would He not save all, so that all could free choose?

YOur text of JOhn 6:44 would not be possible if Christ had not overcome death. God draws all men to Himself, John 32:12 because God is just and will give every human being the choice. Man can never say that He was not given the chance to know God. God makes sure of that, but man must decide whether to accept that call.

Rom 9:16 is about what Christ will do, not what man will do. YOur answer to that three chapter discourse is Rom 11:32.

Even if Adam had free will, God is responsible for what happened in the Garden.

NOt at all. ADam is the sole individual responsible for what happened. Not God, not even Satan. Adam could have remained faithful to God. But he accepted the wiles of the devil in deceiving him and freely sinned.

God is responsible for it if He made him a free moral agent with free will. If God made man with free will, then God created within man the propensities for either good or evil which determined his choices. If God made man with free will, He knew beforehand what the result would be, and He would be just as responsible for the acts of that person with free will as He would be for the act of a pre-programmed mechanical "drone" that He made.

NOt at all. Man did not need to or was compelled to sin. He could have remained faithful and never sinned. Just because created man with a free will, does not make God ressponsible fo the actions of that free individual. This understanding is probably based on your incorrect understanding of what constitutes free will as you described above.

Saving faith is the GIFT OF GOD, NOT AN EXERCISE OF MAN'S "FREE WILL" ... Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the Gift of God."

Everything is a gift from God. But man was given the freedom to use those gifts wisely or unwisely. He has given you air to breathe also, but you can hold your breath and die. God did not cause you to die.

People must believe, of course, but it is not the old desperately wicked heart or the old carnal mind which believes, but the faith graciously given by God as a gift is the instrument of a person's believing.

every single human being has been given everything possible so that all men have the ability, the capability to believe. NO man will be lost, or forgotten and have an excuse that he did not have the chance or opportunitity to believe. Rom 1:18-24.

Another example is Lazarus. Lazarus was a physical example of a Spiritual truth. Unregenerate man (not reborn in the Spirit) is DEAD (spiritually). Unregenerate man does not seek the Lord: Romans 3:10-11: "There is none that understands, there is NONE THAT SEEKS after God.... nor does unregenerate man comprehend the things of the Spirit: 1 Corinthians 2:14 "Natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and HE CANNOT UNDERSTAND THEM, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned."

one can take texts out of context and make them say anything which is what happens with this text.

First, Paul is quoting the Ps. In the Ps it is those that have rejected God in which this phrase is given. In Rom Paul is trying to make a point with his Judizers who thought they were special and they only should be saved by the Messiah. Paul then uses part of the Ps text to show that all men have sinned, all men have fallen short.

And to whom will God give grace and mercy, all, Rom 11:32, God does so, then recreated man in God Image by His Incarnation and resurrection. God makes sure all men come to HIm because He calls all men, all men will come to Him, but man will make the choice of whether he will actually join with God or reject God. That decision is an active one of man which is why God can judge justly. It is not a passive act of man, or an ignorant act of man, but one with knowledge and free choice.

The Shepherd will not lose even ONE of them. And the lost sheep do not seek after The Shepherd, but rather, The Shepherd seeks after the lost sheep. The majority of Christendom has it backwards.

the fact that the shepherd is going out looking, says he has already lost one. But God does, by the work of the Holy Spirit influence man, chastens believers to come back. But man can and does quench the Holy Spirit. Man can and does reject Christ even after believeing and living a life in Christ for a time. God cannot force you to remain, just as He could not force Adam not to sin. It was a free choice, a choice we will all answer to at the judgement.

Free will is unbiblical. So many believe in free will because it's a tradition of men that's been around for a long time, but it's a lie.

it is one of the most basic foundational aspects of God revelation to man. Without free will, revelation is totally useless and meaningless.

Faith and commitment are gifts from God, not something that comes from our own independent WILL within.

scripture never says it is. They are gifts, but gifts that man uses or abuses. The parable of the talents is about gifts being used wisely, faith being one of them.

The danger of the free will doctrine is that the end result can only result in self-righteousness. People believe their good faith and belief are matters of human accomplishment that separate them from those who are less accomplished than they are. They think their commitment and faith are what separate them eternally from those faithless no-good unbelievers who have neither faith nor commitment. People soon forget (if they ever realized) that the source of their faith and belief is from God, and ONLY God, not themselves: 1 Corinthians 4:7: "For what makes you different from anybody else, and what have you got that was not given to you? And if anything has been given to you, WHY BOAST OF IT AS IF YOU HAD ACHIEVED IT YOURSELF?"

this statement is mostly based on your incorrect understanding of "free will". Most of this has already been explained above.

Free will is extremely deceptive and dangerous because man becomes the deciding factor in his own salvation

which is precisely what scripture teaches. It is why God will judge you justly, because it is based on what you desired and did with all that God has given each human being.

SELF (one's OWN belief in Jesus) becomes Savior, not Jesus Himself and His Sacrifice. Very tricksy!

What Jesus did as Savior of the world is not effected or affected by what you do. He saved you for the sole purpose that you could live eternally, and freely choose or reject Him as you were created to do. a choice ADam denied to you by His sin and the judgement of death against Him and mankind.

No one can come to Jesus on their own free will: John 6:44: "NO ONE is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM unto Me."

correct, but only man decides whether to accept that call. Which is why all men will be judged. All men have been called, all men will have made an active choice regarding that call. NO one will be left out. Thus God draws all men, John 32:12, and calls all to repentance, II Pet 3:5, Mark 2:17.

 

[reba]

The Scriptures are amazing.... we read the same verses and 'hear' something different.. What a wonderful, powerful Book!

 

[Cassian]

childeye,

All is built upon faith and the power of love over reasoning. Consequently a soul that believes God is untrustworthy reasons differently than the soul that trusts in God. The subsequent decisions reflect those beliefs. Therefore a soul that does not trust in God is irrational while the soul that trusts in God is a rational soul.

faith or not having faith has nothing to do with either being rational or irrational. rational simply means the ability to reason, to decipher options, make decisions.
Irrational is simply a decison not based on good reasoning skills, more emotional for example.

But Satan does force men to do against their will in so much that he rules through deception.

He does not make you go against your will. He presents his influence in such a way that you desire it. See the story of Eve. Eve, nor you are compelled to accept his offer. It is a free, rational choice.

All of scripture points to Satan as the Father of lies and sin, not mankind. Your next line of reasoning will be to say Satan had a free will. The reasoning of man is confounded by the term freedom because of it's allure through pride to want to believe man is in control of his own destiny.

and what does this have to do with free will. Satan did have a free will, which he used to rebell against God.

Man is in control of his destiny. Whether he is with Christ or apart from him is all based on his own rational choice.

Subsequently the common reasoning assumes that either God is responsible for man's actions or man is. This reasoning does not account for ignorance of what we cannot help but take for granted as created beings. Or in other words mankind was destined to learn and cherish the Character of God through experiencing the consequences of being apart from Him. In this scenario, the terms responsibility and irresponsibility are merely relative and subjective terms.

but no man is ignorant of God. God makes sure of that. Which is why man will give an account and be judged.

 

[Jack Straw]

The OP is correct. The "man of sin" sitting in the "temple of God" is THE SELF usurping and exalting HIMSELF AS GOD in the Temple of God, showing HIMSELF that he is God, by thinking HIS BELIEF in God (his WILL) is what saves, not Christ (God's Will).

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4: "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the MAN of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

Christians forget what the temple of God is:

1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19: "Know not that YOU ARE the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple YOU ARE. What? know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you?"

1 Peter 2:3-5: "If you have tasted that the Lord is gracious, Who came as unto a LIVING STONE, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, YOU ALSO, as LIVELY STONES, are built up a SPIRITUAL HOUSE, AN HOLY PRIESTHOOD, TO OFFER UP SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

The man of sin "exalts HIMSELF" above all...so that he AS GOD sits IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD." The popular, yet false teaching says that Paul was speaking of a future rebuilt JEWISH TEMPLE in Jerusalem. But every reference that Paul made to the "temple of God" reveals that he NEVER applied this term to the Jewish temple! When the Bible speaks of the "literal temple," the word "hieron" is used. This word is used 71 times in the New Testament in reference to the temple at Jerusalem. On the other hand, the word that Paul used for temple is "NAOS" which refers not to the literal temple, but to the Holy Place. NAOS is THE DWELLING PLACE OF GOD. And the dwelling place of God is now HIS MANY MEMBERED BODY.

Paul said:

1 Corinthians 3:17: "The temple o God is holy, which temple YOU ARE."

1 Corinthians 6:19: "Know not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you?"

2 Corinthians 6:16: "For you are the temple of the living God; as God has said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them"

The "MAN OF SIN" (the SELF) takes the seat of God in the temple of God (which YOU ARE) and usurps the leading of the Holy Spirit. He thinks he's a servant of God, but in reality, he's serving the false god of SELF as he resists the Holy Spirit and "opposes and exalts HIMSELF above all that is called God, so that HE AS GOD sits in the temple of God, showing HIMSELF that HE is God." With the encouragement of Satan from within the carnal, flesh man; this is the essence of MAN'S RELIGION!

Revelation 13:18: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN, and his number is 666."

It is the number of a MAN, because it is the religion of MAN; OF SELF and the number that represents MAN in the Scriptures is the number 6.


*Man was created on the 6th day

*6 days for MAN to labour

*MAN could sow the land 6 years, but the seventh belonged to the Lord

*When MAN dies, he's buried 6 feet under - (just kidding

*Goliath; who defied the Lord's army, was 6 cubits tall. His spearhead weighed 600 shekels of iron.

*Nebuchadnezzar's great image, set up in the plain of Dura, was 60 by 6 cubits.

Man's defiance grows in dimensions and in importance as time progresses. The image of Nebuchadnezzar is TEN TIMES the dimensions of Goliath, and the number of the beast in Revelation 13 is TEN TIMES that of the image of Nebuchadnezzar (666).

The "god" they think they are praising and worshiping is not actually God at all, but rather the traditions of MAN. Their god is "MAN"! Their god is THE IMAGE OF SELF! Man creates God in his OWN IMAGE! The IMAGE OF THE BEAST. THE BEAST is CARNAL MAN!

Revelation 13:18: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN."

God bless and peace.:peace

 

[Cassian]

The OP is correct. The "man of sin" sitting in the "temple of God" is THE SELF usurping and exalting HIMSELF AS GOD in the Temple of God, showing HIMSELF that he is God, by thinking HIS BELIEF in God (his WILL) is what saves, not Christ (God's Will).

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4: "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the MAN of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

Christians forget what the temple of God is:

1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19: "Know not that YOU ARE the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple YOU ARE. What? know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you?"

1 Peter 2:3-5: "If you have tasted that the Lord is gracious, Who came as unto a LIVING STONE, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, YOU ALSO, as LIVELY STONES, are built up a SPIRITUAL HOUSE, AN HOLY PRIESTHOOD, TO OFFER UP SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

The man of sin "exalts HIMSELF" above all...so that he AS GOD sits IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD." The popular, yet false teaching says that Paul was speaking of a future rebuilt JEWISH TEMPLE in Jerusalem. But every reference that Paul made to the "temple of God" reveals that he NEVER applied this term to the Jewish temple! When the Bible speaks of the "literal temple," the word "hieron" is used. This word is used 71 times in the New Testament in reference to the temple at Jerusalem. On the other hand, the word that Paul used for temple is "NAOS" which refers not to the literal temple, but to the Holy Place. NAOS is THE DWELLING PLACE OF GOD. And the dwelling place of God is now HIS MANY MEMBERED BODY.

Paul said:

1 Corinthians 3:17: "The temple o God is holy, which temple YOU ARE."

1 Corinthians 6:19: "Know not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you?"

2 Corinthians 6:16: "For you are the temple of the living God; as God has said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them"

The "MAN OF SIN" (the SELF) takes the seat of God in the temple of God (which YOU ARE) and usurps the leading of the Holy Spirit. He thinks he's a servant of God, but in reality, he's serving the false god of SELF as he resists the Holy Spirit and "opposes and exalts HIMSELF above all that is called God, so that HE AS GOD sits in the temple of God, showing HIMSELF that HE is God." With the encouragement of Satan from within the carnal, flesh man; this is the essence of MAN'S RELIGION!

Revelation 13:18: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN, and his number is 666."

It is the number of a MAN, because it is the religion of MAN; OF SELF and the number that represents MAN in the Scriptures is the number 6.


*Man was created on the 6th day

*6 days for MAN to labour

*MAN could sow the land 6 years, but the seventh belonged to the Lord

*When MAN dies, he's buried 6 feet under - (just kidding

*Goliath; who defied the Lord's army, was 6 cubits tall. His spearhead weighed 600 shekels of iron.

*Nebuchadnezzar's great image, set up in the plain of Dura, was 60 by 6 cubits.

Man's defiance grows in dimensions and in importance as time progresses. The image of Nebuchadnezzar is TEN TIMES the dimensions of Goliath, and the number of the beast in Revelation 13 is TEN TIMES that of the image of Nebuchadnezzar (666).

The "god" they think they are praising and worshiping is not actually God at all, but rather the traditions of MAN. Their god is "MAN"! Their god is THE IMAGE OF SELF! Man creates God in his OWN IMAGE! The IMAGE OF THE BEAST. THE BEAST is CARNAL MAN!

Revelation 13:18: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN."

God bless and peace.:peace

this is a good example of proof texting, taking snippets of words and phrases to seemingly make a doctrine.

It is this very practice, of man imposing His own interpretation upon Christ's Gospel that is the very epitome of arrogance.

There has never been a dispute regarding man having a free will. The disagreement is all within the protestant milieu of sola scriptura and is quite modern in its origin.

In your earlier post you did not even understand the concept of "free will". How can you argue against it when you don't even understand it?

 

[savedbygrace57]

That righteousness might be imputed unto them also

Rom 4:11

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

The whole seed Elect believes in time because Righteousness has been imputed to them also !

All down through the end of the age ! And so wherever the Righteousness of God has been imputed [2 Cor 5:21], the Spirit of God shall be given to effect Faith that it will be realized, even down to the end of the age. Now understand, the Righteousness has always been Imputed, just as their sins had always been imputed to Christ, but not the Grace of the Spirit that reveals it to them in their Lifetime according to God's Time and Purpose for them !

 

[savedbygrace57]

The man of sin religionists have hijacked the Gift of Faith that is given in Holy Spirit wrought conversion, and have made it instead, the one good work man can do to get himself saved ! This is flat out denial of Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Also Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

However this their vile act will so be exposed at Judgment Day, which is rapidly approaching !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Many today in organized religion teach the false doctrine that ones faith or act of believing is that which God accepts from us a condition for them to Justify us, however this is a lie, even a damnable heresy, for this makes Christ less successful in this matter than our act of faith, something we do, and is giving honor to our act over and above Jesus Christ, and so it actually dishonors Him. They do not altogether eliminate Christ, but the saving honor goes to our act of believing and not to Christ. These deceivers will say that we are Justified by Faith, and that is True, and it is also True that Christ is called Faith Gal 3:23

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

And so we are Justified by Christ as Promised Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

And He is the object of our Faith, His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Its the Blood of Christ or the Grace of God that actually Justifies one before God, not their act of believing; for if one is Justified before God by our act of Faith or believing, then we are saying that God Justified us because of what is in us, what was in our heart ! Rom 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Thats Salvation by our Works, our Righteousness, which is unscriptural !

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[Jack Straw]

Originally posted by Cassian,

Man has always had free will. It is inherent in the very make up of man, being created in God's image and with a rational soul.

Originally posted by Jack Straw,

No one can come to Jesus on their own free will: John 6:44: "NO ONE is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM unto Me."

....but only man decides whether to accept that call.

By those statements you are (perhaps unknowingly) saying that people can overthrow the plans of The Creator, and are saying that God "is dependent" upon man for the fulfillment of His purposes. You are saying that only IF man will do certain things, only IF man will comply with certain terms, only IF man decides to accept the call, then God can accomplish His original purposes. Nonsense. Who is in charge here anyway? The doctrine of free will says that "if man will not lend his aid; if he will not perform his part of the work, then the plans of God rest upon the weak minds and uncertainty of people, rather than upon Himself." Do you honestly think God would allow His original purpose and plan to be placed upon the shoulders of ignorant, frail, and weak-willed men? Do you think that God has delegated to lesser beings that which is essential to give success to all His measures for man's salvation? That is precisely what the doctrine of free will dictates.

It is ridiculous to believe that Almighty God would permit man to thwart His efforts. The doctrine of free will could only be true if God created man and endowed him with greater power than His own…..powers so great that, in his self-determination, GOD COULD NOT influence him nor have at His infinite disposal the means to educate and enlighten his darkened, finite mind. I don't think so. Contrary to what the doctrine of free will dictates, NO being in Heaven and Earth can thwart God's Will, and no being can overturn His purposes or frustrate His designs.

Christians who believe in free will flat out deny Scripture. A five year old can understand verses such as Ephesians 1:11; John 15:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 9:16; John 6:44; (and countless others); but adults whose minds have been darkened by the religious traditions of men can not understand. They contradict themselves constantly without realizing it. 
They say; "I am powerless," and in the same breath they say; "I am able to respond to Christ's call."

 They say; "God is in total control," and in the same sentence they'll say;
"I have free will." They'll say; "God predestined me,"
 and at the same time they'll say;
"I determine my own destiny." 

And then;

 "It's not my credit I'm going to heaven," however, 

"it's those peoples' faults (credit) they're going to hell." They don't realize they are walking contradictions because they are blinded by religious tradition.

God did not MAKE Jonah go to Ninevah - but He did MAKE HIM WILLING to go! The notion that God cannot, or will not, influence the wills of ALL MEN to bring them ALL unto Himself is a wicked insult to both His redeeming love and His omnipotence! To say that some people are called, but however, they resist God's call is even more wicked and more of an insult to God. No one can resist coming to Christ when God DRAWS THEM! Can you think of anyone who was more resistant to Christ than Saul? I highly doubt it! Could Saul resist accepting the call? Of course not....NO ONE CAN! So to suggest that some are called, or DRAWN TO CHRIST by God, but yet don't answer the call and come to Him is the epitome of foolishness.

In addition, it is another accepted lie of men to say that our Heavenly Father would place His disobedient children in a condition where they would become eternally fixed forever and denied the privilege of ever accepting the call. That is unbiblical and a doctrine of demons. Whenever the sinner would accept the call and repent, in this flesh age, or the next age, God of course would allow it. Why should He not?

Isaiah 55:7:

"Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon."

The divine invitation for the acceptance of man stands forever. As far as God's Word, there is no time set, no limit fixed, no place designed when or where it shall cease. There is not one passage of Scripture in the whole Bible that indicates that the grace of God is limited to physical life, or that the end of God's mercy is tied to ones biological death in the flesh. It is the spirit of man that is of the greatest importance to God. Why should there be salvation provided as long as the mortal flesh body remains animate, but no salvation for the much more valuable spirit of the same man or woman as soon as the last mortal breath is drawn? I know Hebrews states, "It is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27), but that proves nothing relative to the question. It merely establishes the fact of judgment - not the process following judgment. The passage is conspicuous for what it does NOT say. It does NOT say, "It is appointed unto men once to die, and after this ETERNAL DAMNATION," (or annihilation). The whole theory of eternal torment rests upon a faulty translation of a couple of Greek words, and actual distortions and perversions of what the Scriptures say. But, I don't want to digress too much, even though this is closely tied in with the OP's subject.

Jesus Christ HAS OVERRULED THE FREE WILL OF MAN! God IS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS FREE WILL! He is the ONLY ONE who could make a decision regarding salvation! And HE MADE IT FOR US ALL! Praise His name!

God bless and peace. :peace

 

[savedbygrace57]

Strong delusions and Believing Lies !


God has already began His Punishment of the non elect world of the antichrist, man of sin followers and worshippers ! That is by sending them strong delusions that they believe a lie or even lies ! All lies are the lie, because fostered by the Father of them.

2 Thess 2:7-11

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Jn 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And so it is quite becoming, that his children believe his lies, that is what manifests them 1 Jn 3:10

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness[Believe the Truth] is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Now one of those strong delusions of those under the power of sin and the Antichrist as described in 2 Thess 2:11, is that man has a freewill in this matter of salvation !