Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[savedbygrace57]

There are those who utter terrible blasphemies against the Death of Christ, and what it alone accomplished, apart from the subsequent work of the Spirit; Even though the Spirit should later confirm the saving Death of Christ to all for whom Christ died. Now by His death alone, apart from the Spirits applicatory Work, Christ hath reconciled all for whom He died to God, even while they themselves are enemies to God, by nature Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now to deny this reconciliation or to darken its counsel in any way, is antichrist ! To say that Christ's Death is Worthless apart from the Work of the Spirit is antichrist !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Purged our sins !

Christ by His Death alone, apart from any subsequent work of the Spirit, hath purged our sins Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This entails the taking away of our sins [If he died for us], their full expiation once and for all ! This Work was in striking contrast to the levitical priesthood which stood daily Heb 10:11-12

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb 1:3

Because the offerings of their priesthood could not take away sins, as Christ offering of Himself did Jn 1:29 ; Heb 1:3 and this He accomplished through Death, with no subsequent Work of the Spirit, and therefore, anyone saying that Christ's Death in and of itself and or without the subsequent Work of the Spirit is worthless, is a liar and antichrist !

 

[Eventide]

There are those who utter terrible blasphemies against the Death of Christ, and what it alone accomplished!

I can see that... for who in their right CHRISTian mind would associate the infinitely glorious and majestic atonement of Christ with the word...

LIMITED... ? ? ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

To Blaspheme and say arrogantly that Christ's death in and of itself is worthless, is saying that God's Law and Justice has not been met with saving satisfaction for the sins of those that Christ hath died for, not until the Holy Spirit does a work in those that Christ hath died for, making it so that it was not only Christ's Death that was needed to satisfy God's Law and Justice, but in addition the Spirit's applicatory work assisted in paying for sin ! This is utterly false and Blasphemous and contrary to Christ's very statement concerning the work of the Spirit here Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Spirit does nothing but take what is Christ's [His Saving Meritorious Death] and shews it to the Members of His Body, He declares it to them, but to say that Christ's Death is worthless without this work of the Spirit, that is an horrible blasphemy that none but a child of the devil could utter in such confidence and arrogance !

 

[savedbygrace57]

By His Death Alone !


By His Death Alone apart from any other subsequent work of the Spirit, Christ hath obtained Eternal Redemption for us, the us being all for whom He died Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption or eternal life for us.

This eternal redemption is nothing but eternal life in essence, and yet their be those under the guise of being preachers of righteousness, who tell us, that Christ's death in and of itself, and apart from the Workings of The Spirit is Worthless, what Blasphemy !

 

[Eventide]

L I M I T E D ...

Or that the infinitely glorious and majestic atonement of Our Lord Jesus Christ is limited...

You're constantly barking about others and can't see how absolutely blasphemous your own beliefs are..

 

[Cassian]

Re: L I M I T E D ...

Or that the infinitely glorious and majestic atonement of Our Lord Jesus Christ is limited...

You're constantly barking about others and can't see how absolutely blasphemous your own beliefs are..

In reality he is not speaking of others. He is speaking against his straw man. He has never given an example of "others". The only way he can present his false teachings is to develop the opposite. He is unable to explain anything he says. As much as he rails against the strawman, there should not be much left of him.

I pity that strawman.

 

[Mitspa]

By His Death Alone !


By His Death Alone apart from any other subsequent work of the Spirit, Christ hath obtained Eternal Redemption for us, the us being all for whom He died Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption or eternal life for us.

This eternal redemption is nothing but eternal life in essence, and yet their be those under the guise of being preachers of righteousness, who tell us, that Christ's death in and of itself, and apart from the Workings of The Spirit is Worthless, what Blasphemy !

Can you describe what it means to be "Spiritual"? How does one enter into and abide in the Spirit?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Can you describe what it means to be "Spiritual"? How does one enter into and abide in the Spirit?

Deal with the facts of post 665 !

 

[Eventide]

Deal with the facts of post 665 !

Why, since when do you deal with any facts..?

Or perhaps you think that you're the only one who has the facts.. yes, that must be it.. lol

 

[Eventide]

Too funny..

It literally makes me lol when I think of some of the most REVERED scholars of the day and what they feed the flock of Christ.. and how that these disciples of reformed theology can't even correctly answer the most simple and fundamental questions concerning the scriptures..

Because they've all been hypnotized into believing the nonsense that THEY are CHOSEN BY GOD.. even UNCONDITIONALLY !

What must I do to be saved..?

They're stuck... they can either believe the simple truth of the infinitely glorious holy scriptures.. or stick with what these brilliant scholars feed them... that they're UNCONDITIONALLY CHOSEN BY GOD..

We see the choice day after day, clearly..

How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

 

[Mitspa]

Deal with the facts of post 665 !

Well gee, i agree with you! I was surprised to find that they are a few here on this forum that seem to understand the bible. I see you have "words" i was trying to see if you have been taught the power of" The Word"? I guess if you dont want to answer such a simple question? You have your reasons? i have my reasons for asking.

 

[Eventide]

Re: L I M I T E D ...

In reality he is not speaking of others. He is speaking against his straw man. He has never given an example of "others". The only way he can present his false teachings is to develop the opposite. He is unable to explain anything he says. As much as he rails against the strawman, there should not be much left of him.

I pity that strawman.

Ya know, you're absolutely right imo. He is constantly barking about what these others 'say' and yet I haven't heard anything even close to what's he's suggesting..

You're right.. it's the ultimate strawman..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Our New Birth is a Result of Christ's Death !

Christ's Death is that which obtained for all whom He died, their New Birth. For New Birth is by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, which Resurrection confirms the success and value of His Death for those He died for ! 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

NIV 1984 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

NLT 2007 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation,

ESV 2001 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

And Christ's Resurrection was only possible because of His Death !

Yet there be those of the wicked that tell us that Christ's Death in and of itself does not save anyone, and that apart from the Spirit it is worthless ! Such Blasphemy shall be given account for in the Day of Judgment !

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Mitspa,

Well gee, i agree with you! I was surprised to find that they are a few here on this forum that seem to understand the bible. I see you have "words" i was trying to see if you have been taught the power of" The Word"? I guess if you dont want to answer such a simple question? You have your reasons? i have my reasons for asking.

Though I agree with some (certainly not all) of what SBG posts, I'm beginning to think SBG is not a human, but a computer - constantly churning out information, but lacking the ability to respond to questions that are not part of "its" program.

 

[Cassian]

Our New Birth is a Result of Christ's Death !

Christ's Death is that which obtained for all whom He died, their New Birth. For New Birth is by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, which Resurrection confirms the success and value of His Death for those He died for ! 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

NIV 1984 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

NLT 2007 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation,

ESV 2001 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

And Christ's Resurrection was only possible because of His Death !

Yet there be those of the wicked that tell us that Christ's Death in and of itself does not save anyone, and that apart from the Spirit it is worthless ! Such Blasphemy shall be given account for in the Day of Judgment !

Savedbygrace57,

One should at least give the biblical response to such erroneous statements. No response might make some think that these statements might be correct as stated.

However,....

Christ's Death is that which obtained for all whom He died, their New Birth. For New Birth is by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, which Resurrection confirms the success and value of His Death for those He died for ! 1 Pet 1:3

This is actually a very correct statement as it is stated. But the writer, Savedbygrace57, has a thological perspective that restricts or limits this statement.

God created man consubstantial. We are all of the very same essence. We all have the very same human nature. God is not a respector of persons in that He created some differently, or even for different reasons. God created man, a creature that bears His Image because God wanted a creature much like Himself so that He could commune with this creature. That there would be a free and mutual relationship with a creature who would voluntarily, freely desire Him, to return the love that God sheds upon all creatures.

When Adam sinned and the punishment for that sin was death, meaning man lost life, man lost his eternal existance. Man would live a short biological life, then cease to exist, returning to dust. That was not the purpose of why God created man. If God desires to have communion with man for an eternity, then God will need to restore life, restore and eternal existance to his creation, especially man. For man himself cannot save himself. How can a mortal being give life to Himself.

We know that God planned for this episode in His creation by having His ONLY Begotton Son to redeem man. Christ would come in due time as the Incarnate Christ. Christ would be both God and man. Christ would bear the very same nature, our fallen human nature, our mortal nature so that by His death of that nature, could raise that nature to life, to an eternal existance again.

Since all men are consubstantial, then by changing one nature, changes all natures. Thus by His resurrection all men will obtain an eternal existance and because man does have life, now God and man can again be rejoined in an eternal union. God gives that opportunity to every single human being, not one human being will be without the means to know God.

The text of IPet 1:3 is speaking about this universal effect upon all men by Christ's resurrection. We indeed were given a new birth, we were given eternal life, and the hope that Peter speaks of is that man will freely accept Christ, so that his eternal life will be spent in heaven with Christ, not apart from Him in hell.
NOte, that this phrase, born again, or new birth has nothing to do with our spiritual rebirth that is spoken of in John 3:5. That is the rebirth of our spiritual relationship with Christ upon faith, repentance and baptism. That we enter into the Body of Christ we also recieve the Holy Spirit.

Yet there be those of the wicked that tell us that Christ's Death in and of itself does not save anyone, and that apart from the Spirit it is worthless ! Such Blasphemy shall be given account for in the Day of Judgment !

His death and resurrection in and of itself saved every single human being from death. Christ corrected the fall. This is NOT salvation of our souls which we do by and through faith individually.

Here are the texts that clearly show that Christ saved mankind, the world from the fall, death, and restored life to all. This is a physical life, this is our mortal nature changed to immortal. This did not happen immediately, but will occur at the second coming of Christ.

They are, Gen 3:15 the promise of the solution, Christ, to overcome the condemnation of death,Gen 3:19.

Rom 5:12 also states the reason for Christ's resurrection, which effect is stated in Rom 5:18.

Rom 11:32 is the equation of all men falling, with all men receiving mercy, namely life

Another equation showing same is I Cor 15:22. But it is important to read the verses 13-21 as well. For it states that if the dead are not raised then Christ is not raised. This is referring to all dead, not just elect as the writer savedbygrace57 teaches.

That Christ reconciled the whole world to God, saved the world from death is found in II Cor 5:18-19, Col 1:20, John 4:42 and I John 4:14,

That Christ was Incarnated, Heb 2:12-16 and the purpose was to overcome death, the power of satan, also I John 3:8.

John 6:39 shows and aligns with Col 1:20 that all things were given to Christ and all things redeemed that everything will be raised in the last day and none will be lost. Kinda impossible to lose a human nature, that is consubstantial. It should be noted that the next verse speaks of those of "all men of vs39" those who see and believe will have eternal life with Christ.

Also, verses such as Acts 24:15 where it states that all the dead will be raised, the just and the unjust. Rev 20:12-13 also makes this same statement.
To even suggest that Christ's death was limited or restricted is absurd in the light of scripture.

Now, what has this to do with free will, the topic of this thread?

The poster, Savedbygrace57, because He holds to the predestination view, and that Christ ONLY died and resurrected the elect to salvation, eliminates man's participation in his personal salvation of his soul. He also believes that God foreordained certain men to heaven and all others to hell. Though noting is scripture can be found to support it. Which is probably why he does not either explain or comment on his own statments.

But God created man free. The only way love can occur, as described in I Cor 13 is that the participants be independent of each other as to will. God did not create robots, or tools, but a rational creature, with a soul, mind, and will. Our eternal abode, heaven or hell rests entirely upon our very own desires and actions regarding Christ. That is the way God wanted it, to have man freely respond in return, to love, to obey, to submit our wills to his will. Revelation itself is based on man's free will. Man needs to know what God expects from Him, what God desires of our relationship. this is also why we will be judged, not God, nor anyone else for what we do.

 

[Eventide]

We know that God planned for this episode in His creation by having His ONLY Begotton Son to redeem man. Christ would come in due time as the Incarnate Christ. Christ would be both God and man. Christ would bear the very same nature, our fallen human nature, our mortal nature so that by His death of that nature, could raise that nature to life, to an eternal existance again.

Excellent commentary IMO although I would disagree that the Lord Jesus Christ had our fallen human nature... Certainly human but without sin in him.. For He knew no sin, did no sin, and has no sin in Him.

I might have read it wrong although if you're saying that Christ had a sin nature then I would certainly need to disagree strongly with that.

 

[Mitspa]

Though I agree with some (certainly not all) of what SBG posts, I'm beginning to think SBG is not a human, but a computer - constantly churning out information, but lacking the ability to respond to questions that are not part of "its" program.

Yea? me too! If all that someone knows does not bring the power and life of Christ?
its all vanity! i guess "The simplicity of Christ " Paul taught was just out of date?

 

[savedbygrace57]

He obtained Eternal Redemption for Us !

Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

That Eternal Redemption that Christ obtained for us, in the original its middle voice and would mean He obtained for Himself as Well, signifying that He and those He died for are all of One, and so they are His Possessions unto Himself in Eternal Redemption, namely His body the Church. This Eternal Redemption must be imparted to them, it must be shewed them [experientially] because it is theirs, and so the good news of it is sent to each of them by means of the Gospel of their Salvation or Redemption Eph 1:13-14

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation or Redemption: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Now it is this the Gospel of their Redemption because Christ hath obtained it for them, and upon being given ears to hear it [The Good News] they are thereby sealed unto the day of Redemption Eph 4:30, The Eternal Redemption Christ hath obtained, ensures and effects the Redemption of our bodies Rom 8:23, which whether we sleep or awake, at His Coming ! Paul also refers to this Redemption of the Body here Phil 3:21

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[Cassian]

Excellent commentary IMO although I would disagree that the Lord Jesus Christ had our fallen human nature... Certainly human but without sin in him.. For He knew no sin, did no sin, and has no sin in Him.

I might have read it wrong although if you're saying that Christ had a sin nature then I would certainly need to disagree strongly with that.

being mortal is not sin. You cannot say human without also either stating or implying our mortal state of that nature. We are also born mortal, but without sin. We are born innocent which is why and how Christ could be born of the Virgin Mary. One must actually sin and Christ also had the capability sin, but did not. If He did not have the ability to sin, then there is no benefit to man that Christ could have kept the law perfectly. This is why He can command us not to sin, to curb sin, to be perfect as He is perfect.

Having a sin nature is a common protestant statement because it is based on the erroneous concept of Original Sin. Our mortal nature makes us sinful, but we do not have a sin nature. It would be impossible to save us from sin ,or we could never stop or not sin if one had a sin nature. From scriptures standpoint and theologically the concept is quite incorrect.