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Deborah13
Guest
If man does not have freewill in choosing than all those who believe that they are the chosen ones, they didn't choose, then when they sin it's really God making them do it???
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If man does not have freewill in choosing than all those who believe that they are the chosen ones, they didn't choose, then when they sin it's really God making them do it???
Grazer
Member
That's always been my point too. If we don't have free will to choose God and he purely chooses us, are the ones are aren't chosen just unlucky?
Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
You need to address all my points in post's 1 and 2, you have not done that. Show me where what is stated is in error, and that its not True. I used the Word of God to make my points, you will get no further communication from me unless you address intelligently those points. Thanks . For I put too much time into them for them to be evaded, you must also put time into the rebuttal of them !
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Not Justified by works of the law !
Gal 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
The works of the Law is not limited to the moral or ceremonial law of moses, but does also includes any and all human effort and obedience, anything that we do that results us in being approved of God, that results in God Justifying us; Yes, once we factor in any obedience on our part as being in the deciding factor as to our Justification before God, we default to Justification by the Law or by works, its just that simple !
Scripturally there is only One act of Obedience that makes them that Christ died for Righteous Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The same Truth here was Taught in the OT here Isa 53:11
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
So again, once we factor in our personal obedience, it becomes Justification by Two and Justification by Law or Works !
Gal 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
The works of the Law is not limited to the moral or ceremonial law of moses, but does also includes any and all human effort and obedience, anything that we do that results us in being approved of God, that results in God Justifying us; Yes, once we factor in any obedience on our part as being in the deciding factor as to our Justification before God, we default to Justification by the Law or by works, its just that simple !
Scripturally there is only One act of Obedience that makes them that Christ died for Righteous Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The same Truth here was Taught in the OT here Isa 53:11
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
So again, once we factor in our personal obedience, it becomes Justification by Two and Justification by Law or Works !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Imputation of Christ's Righteousness !
Rom 4:6
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
The greek word for imputeth is logizomai and means:
to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over
a) to take into account, to make an account of
God's imputation of something is unlike that of men, but it is with Him an immediate Act of God Almighty Himself, issuing it into an effectual operation that transfers the Righteousness of Christ to be upon us, whom He was made for 2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This imputed Righteousness upon those that Christ died for is not inherent and active, but objective and passive, as it was with our sins imputed upon Christ, for our sins did not make Him actually and inherently sinful; God's imputing and reckoning, since He is God, gives a Real Being and true Existence of the thing [ imputed righteousness] before Himself, and so He counts it Rom 4:17
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were
Rom 4:6
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
The greek word for imputeth is logizomai and means:
to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over
a) to take into account, to make an account of
God's imputation of something is unlike that of men, but it is with Him an immediate Act of God Almighty Himself, issuing it into an effectual operation that transfers the Righteousness of Christ to be upon us, whom He was made for 2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This imputed Righteousness upon those that Christ died for is not inherent and active, but objective and passive, as it was with our sins imputed upon Christ, for our sins did not make Him actually and inherently sinful; God's imputing and reckoning, since He is God, gives a Real Being and true Existence of the thing [ imputed righteousness] before Himself, and so He counts it Rom 4:17
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were
savedbygrace57,
what you have failed to understand is that everything, including all of mankind was justified by Christ to God.
It is why Christ was needed in the first place because man could not save himself from the fall, from death, the condemnation through Adam. Man cannot add or subtract, or assist Christ in His reconciliation, or justification of mankind to God.
II Cor 5:18-19 states as explicitely as any scripture can that Christ was reconciling the world to God. Col 1:20 specifies and even gives several explicit descriptions of all the things Christ reconciled, or justified, or redeemed through His Blood. Man has absolutely nothing to do with the work of Christ. We cannot be justifed by works. Christ did it all for us, us meaning all mankind. There are no exceptions. All men were given life, and all sin was atoned.
There is absolutely no exclusions or limitations upon Christ's work on the Cross.
YOu seem to always limit what the contexts actually say. Isa 53:6 is much more inclusive. Christ died for all, all of mankind. We are all under the condemnation of death. Christ overcame death.
but that is your strawman theology again. YOu have never shown who it is that believes that one is actually justified by works or his own obedience.
I have just explained to you that man cannot do anything regarding his salvation from death, or atone for his sins. It was all Christ, which is why we are all saved by Grace, Eph 2:5. Every single human being will be raised in the last day to stand in judgement for what He did with that Great Gift of salvation, and God's personal call to repentance.
Using God's word is quite meaningless if all one does in inserts his own personal interpretation. I can give you a lot of folks who tried to do that and they all ended up heretics. Arius, Nestorius, Pelagius, are some of the more well known, but there are many more.
NOw, lets be a man and live up to your own words for a change. Intelligently, refute scripture as I have explained it. Show some real evidence that the early Church actually believed what you are saying.
what you have failed to understand is that everything, including all of mankind was justified by Christ to God.
It is why Christ was needed in the first place because man could not save himself from the fall, from death, the condemnation through Adam. Man cannot add or subtract, or assist Christ in His reconciliation, or justification of mankind to God.
II Cor 5:18-19 states as explicitely as any scripture can that Christ was reconciling the world to God. Col 1:20 specifies and even gives several explicit descriptions of all the things Christ reconciled, or justified, or redeemed through His Blood. Man has absolutely nothing to do with the work of Christ. We cannot be justifed by works. Christ did it all for us, us meaning all mankind. There are no exceptions. All men were given life, and all sin was atoned.
There is absolutely no exclusions or limitations upon Christ's work on the Cross.
but vs 18 says all men were justified. All men were given the free Gift of life. This aligns with Rom 3:24, I Cor 15:22, John 6:39 and many others. Christ died for the world, His creation. His creation fell along with Adam, all were subjected to death, decay and corruption. All must be redeemed from that death. Christ's resurrection gave life to the world. It is why He is called the Savior of the world JOhn 4:42, I John 4:14.
YOu seem to always limit what the contexts actually say. Isa 53:6 is much more inclusive. Christ died for all, all of mankind. We are all under the condemnation of death. Christ overcame death.
but that is your strawman theology again. YOu have never shown who it is that believes that one is actually justified by works or his own obedience.
I have just explained to you that man cannot do anything regarding his salvation from death, or atone for his sins. It was all Christ, which is why we are all saved by Grace, Eph 2:5. Every single human being will be raised in the last day to stand in judgement for what He did with that Great Gift of salvation, and God's personal call to repentance.
Using God's word is quite meaningless if all one does in inserts his own personal interpretation. I can give you a lot of folks who tried to do that and they all ended up heretics. Arius, Nestorius, Pelagius, are some of the more well known, but there are many more.
NOw, lets be a man and live up to your own words for a change. Intelligently, refute scripture as I have explained it. Show some real evidence that the early Church actually believed what you are saying.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Imputation of Christ's Righteousness ! 2
Now it is all those whom God hath in Himself reckoned Righteous, with the Righteousness of His Son, they shall in the future, during their life time, they shall all be made experientially Righteous by New Birth, so that they will be made evidentially Righteous and Subjectively Righteous, and be that actually what they already are in God's Sight by Imputation of Christ's Righteousness !
Rom 5:19 also teaches that here Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The word made here is the greek word kathistēmi and means:
to set, place, put
a) to set one over a thing (in charge of it)
b) to appoint one to administer an office
c) to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
d) to constitute, to render, make, cause to be
e) to conduct or bring to a certain place
f) to show or exhibit one's self
1) come forward as
So Rom 5:19 is declaring that all those Christ rendered obedience for, that they shall be shown to be Righteous, and that by New Birth !
Now it is all those whom God hath in Himself reckoned Righteous, with the Righteousness of His Son, they shall in the future, during their life time, they shall all be made experientially Righteous by New Birth, so that they will be made evidentially Righteous and Subjectively Righteous, and be that actually what they already are in God's Sight by Imputation of Christ's Righteousness !
Rom 5:19 also teaches that here Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The word made here is the greek word kathistēmi and means:
to set, place, put
a) to set one over a thing (in charge of it)
b) to appoint one to administer an office
c) to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
d) to constitute, to render, make, cause to be
e) to conduct or bring to a certain place
f) to show or exhibit one's self
1) come forward as
So Rom 5:19 is declaring that all those Christ rendered obedience for, that they shall be shown to be Righteous, and that by New Birth !
I don't know about being shown righteous, that will be known at the resurrection when all man shall be raised from the dead. Christ rendered obedience for all men. He made all men righteous. The Gift given to all men was life. Rom 5:19, You can call this a new birth, because it was a recreation of man back into God's Image.
But this has nothing to do with "born again" which happens as a result of being baptised. This refers to the regeneration of a relationship with Christ. This relationship is not imputed by Christ as you state.
You have a theology that misses most of what scripture is actually teaching. You have put on the blinders of a man-made system and have closed your mind to the Gospel of Christ as He gave it.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
2 Cor 13:5 except ye be reprobates?
2 Cor 13:5
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Those who say they are saved may be fooling themselves, and the truth being told, may be just reprobates.
Those who say they are saved or made Just before God based upon their faith or act of believing, or repentance, or whatever they did, they are in essence saying, they are made Righteous or Just before God by their act of obedience, which denies the Faith Paul is speaking of in 2 Cor 13:5, which faith says Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The emphasis is on the Word ONE, The Faith that Paul Preached states we are made Righteous by the Obedience of One, that One being the Lord Jesus Christ and His Obedience unto Death alone ! Phil 2:8
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Now if we claim we are Justified before God because we believed, which believing is called the obedience to the Gospel, in that not believing it is called not to obey the Gospel 2 Thess 1:8
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
So it stands to reason, those who profess Justification before God because of their own obedience, they are denying the Faith of the Gospel, and very well, if they continue in that mindset, are reprobates !
2 Cor 13:5
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Those who say they are saved may be fooling themselves, and the truth being told, may be just reprobates.
Those who say they are saved or made Just before God based upon their faith or act of believing, or repentance, or whatever they did, they are in essence saying, they are made Righteous or Just before God by their act of obedience, which denies the Faith Paul is speaking of in 2 Cor 13:5, which faith says Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The emphasis is on the Word ONE, The Faith that Paul Preached states we are made Righteous by the Obedience of One, that One being the Lord Jesus Christ and His Obedience unto Death alone ! Phil 2:8
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Now if we claim we are Justified before God because we believed, which believing is called the obedience to the Gospel, in that not believing it is called not to obey the Gospel 2 Thess 1:8
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
So it stands to reason, those who profess Justification before God because of their own obedience, they are denying the Faith of the Gospel, and very well, if they continue in that mindset, are reprobates !
smaller
Member
Every determinist on the planet knows that in regards to sin, all believers are on equal footing.
If you blame the freewiller for wanting to do good, even if they think it is only of and by themselves, and call them reprobates because they don't fit your particular mold, that to me would be a reprobate mindset.
God is not against any believer doing good no matter what their basis of understandings are. Your premise is entirely ridiculous in this regards.
And most freewillers seeking to do good, do so in response just as you 'might' do, because God is good to us.
Why you seek to burn other believers alive in fire forever might be a question you should examine in your own heart.
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
You certainly believe that for yourself no matter what form of doctrine squeezed you in.
Paul rejoiced even if the Gospel was preached in pretence, because He knew The Divine Superiority of God in Christ in all these matters.
No man has perfect doctrine. We all see in part. We all know in part. That includes your construct.
Your construct does NOT exceed Divine Superiority by virtue of your lesser seat of observance.
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M
Mitspa
Guest
2Co 13:4
For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
2Co 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2Co 13:6
But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
So having the "power" of God, is the proof Paul was speaking of! Lets see what "power" he is speaking of?
2Co 12:12
Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
So then, having a form of godliness, and not having real "spiritual" power is the issue!
adokimos (reprobate)
Thayer Definition:
1) not standing the test, not approved
1a) properly used of metals and coins
2) that which does not prove itself such as it ought
2a) unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate
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savedbygrace57
Guest
We must be saved out of Unbelief !
Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The word here for unbelief is the greek word apeitheia and means:
obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will
The word is also meaning disobedience as here Eph 2:2; 5:6 ; Col 3:6 !
The word concluded is the greek word sygkleiō and means:
to shut up together, enclose
a) of a shoal of fishes in a net
2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
So the meaning of the verse is like
ESV For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
ISV For God has locked all people in the prison of their own disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
WNT For God has locked up all in the prison of unbelief, that upon all alike He may have mercy.
The Ideal here is that God delivered all His Elect, Both Jew and Gentile, He delivered or handed them over into unbelief, which is disobedience.
This is something God did, and what does scripture say about that which God doeth ? Ecc 7:13
Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?
Who can deliver themselves from Unbelief to Faith, Yes even the obedience of Faith ?
Many today in false religion believe they deliver themselves from unbelief, and by their believing they secure Salvation and or Justification before God unto themselves !
If we say we believed, and as a result of our believing God saved us, we are actually crowning our own selves our Saviour's or Co Saviour's since one must first be delivered out of the prison of unbelief we are all born into by nature, like the children of disobedience !
However the Testimony of the True Believer, as Paul, our Testimony is that Jesus Christ saves us from Unbelief, for thats part of how He saves sinners 1 Tim 1:13-15
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
This is Paul's Testimony of How God saved Him out of His unbelief of vs 13, and in doing so, He confirms that Christ Jesus came into the World to Save Sinners, Unbelievers !
And He states that His Salvation from Unbelief by the Grace of God, was an example of how all will be saved out of unbelief unto the believing unto Life Eternal Vs 16
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Every sinner that Christ died for as Paul, will be saved out of their unbelief just as Paul was his, for it may not be in the same dramatic fashion as Paul's was, but nevertheless, God will give each of us our own damascus road experience, tailor made for each of us to bring us out of unbelief, the prison of it !
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
This is the prison of unbelief, of which all by nature are bound Rom 11:32 !
Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The word here for unbelief is the greek word apeitheia and means:
obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will
The word is also meaning disobedience as here Eph 2:2; 5:6 ; Col 3:6 !
The word concluded is the greek word sygkleiō and means:
to shut up together, enclose
a) of a shoal of fishes in a net
2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
So the meaning of the verse is like
ESV For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
ISV For God has locked all people in the prison of their own disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
WNT For God has locked up all in the prison of unbelief, that upon all alike He may have mercy.
The Ideal here is that God delivered all His Elect, Both Jew and Gentile, He delivered or handed them over into unbelief, which is disobedience.
This is something God did, and what does scripture say about that which God doeth ? Ecc 7:13
Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?
Who can deliver themselves from Unbelief to Faith, Yes even the obedience of Faith ?
Many today in false religion believe they deliver themselves from unbelief, and by their believing they secure Salvation and or Justification before God unto themselves !
If we say we believed, and as a result of our believing God saved us, we are actually crowning our own selves our Saviour's or Co Saviour's since one must first be delivered out of the prison of unbelief we are all born into by nature, like the children of disobedience !
However the Testimony of the True Believer, as Paul, our Testimony is that Jesus Christ saves us from Unbelief, for thats part of how He saves sinners 1 Tim 1:13-15
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
This is Paul's Testimony of How God saved Him out of His unbelief of vs 13, and in doing so, He confirms that Christ Jesus came into the World to Save Sinners, Unbelievers !
And He states that His Salvation from Unbelief by the Grace of God, was an example of how all will be saved out of unbelief unto the believing unto Life Eternal Vs 16
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Every sinner that Christ died for as Paul, will be saved out of their unbelief just as Paul was his, for it may not be in the same dramatic fashion as Paul's was, but nevertheless, God will give each of us our own damascus road experience, tailor made for each of us to bring us out of unbelief, the prison of it !
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
This is the prison of unbelief, of which all by nature are bound Rom 11:32 !
Re: We must be saved out of Unbelief !
The first part you have correct, but you seem to stumble on the suffix of that text. Christ would have mercy upon all those that were bound in disobedience. Christ redeemed every human being from death, from our mortality. Rom 5:18, Rom 3:24, II Cor 5:18-19 and I Cor 15:22 all make it very clear that Christ saved all from death.
D
Deborah13
Guest
I wasn't giving you a rebuttal. I asked a question ??? because I am confused by what you say. If you did not choose God, you have no freewill? does this mean that when you sin you don't have a choice to sin or not sin.
This is a serious question not a rebuttal.
And no matter what you say, I still will not have a rebuttal. I don't wish to debate.
D
Deborah13
Guest
LOL I do believe my spirit (new creature in Christ) has been made righteous, in Christ. One has to be righteous to have eternal life. and seeing that we can never be righteous on our own, He made our spirits righteous. Our souls will not be perfect until we are totally transfigured by Him as well as our bodies.
This is totally by His grace, His unmerited favor
We are made in the image of God, spirit, soul, and body
I had freewill to accept Him or not.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
deb
Could you please explain the point I am making in post 827 and 825 ?
Could you please explain the point I am making in post 827 and 825 ?
D
Deborah13
Guest
Sorry, I've read your posts. But as I said I have no desire or need to debate your beliefs.
I can only state my beliefs. I believe in OSAS (for lack of a better term) except as described in Heb 6:4-6, I believe I am saved by grace, through faith, which that faith was a gift from God, I believe my spirit has been made righteous in Christ. grace as in unmerited, unearned favor
I believe I have freewill, liberty in Christ. I chose Christ, and I choose if I will obey Him or not. His Holy Spirit in me is the only reason I can make good choices, but I still don't all the time. I do not always think or act in a righteous manner. My soul/mind is still being renewed to be in harmony with my spirit and the Holy Spirit.
I thank Him everyday that He didn't give up on me, even when I had.
I don't have to agree with you or Cassian and you don't have to agree with me. But from what I think I read in both your posts, we are all saved. All of us love the Lord and want to please Him.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
deb
Well this is a debate forum. Why comment at all in this thread ? This is not about you, for you to gloat over yourself. I am here to uplift the Testimony of Jesus Christ !
Well this is a debate forum. Why comment at all in this thread ? This is not about you, for you to gloat over yourself. I am here to uplift the Testimony of Jesus Christ !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Justified by Faith ! Who is ?
Gal 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Who are the We here ? Its the all whom belong to Israel that it is promised in scripture that Israel shall be Justified in the Lord, its the whole Seed of Israel, but not ethnic Israel !
Isa 45:25
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Faith is only valid God given Faith as when it rests upon the promise and Word of God.
It is written of Sarah Heb 11:11
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Now there is only one Promise given in Scripture as to who shall be Justified in the Lord, and that is the Seed of Israel ! Thats all the Seed here also Rom 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
That Promise does include being Justified in the Lord ! The Promise is limited to a Elect People, Israel.
If you are one now who supposes themselves Justified in the Lord, and yet you deny Limited Atonement and Election, then you are not Justified by the Faith spoken of in Gal 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
For that Justification is solely due those it was promised to Isa 45:25, the Seed of Israel, an Elect People !
Gal 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Who are the We here ? Its the all whom belong to Israel that it is promised in scripture that Israel shall be Justified in the Lord, its the whole Seed of Israel, but not ethnic Israel !
Isa 45:25
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Faith is only valid God given Faith as when it rests upon the promise and Word of God.
It is written of Sarah Heb 11:11
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Now there is only one Promise given in Scripture as to who shall be Justified in the Lord, and that is the Seed of Israel ! Thats all the Seed here also Rom 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
That Promise does include being Justified in the Lord ! The Promise is limited to a Elect People, Israel.
If you are one now who supposes themselves Justified in the Lord, and yet you deny Limited Atonement and Election, then you are not Justified by the Faith spoken of in Gal 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
For that Justification is solely due those it was promised to Isa 45:25, the Seed of Israel, an Elect People !
M
Mitspa
Guest
Here is the "elect"
Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Mar 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
The "Gospel" is that which gathers those God has "called", even then some will love this world more and not come! Just as Israel was "elected" and some did not believe!
Heb 4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
If you have to deny some scripture, to make others true, then your doctrine is wrong!