Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[Deborah13]

deb



Well this is a debate forum. Why comment at all in this thread ? This is not about you, for you to gloat over yourself. I am here to uplift the Testimony of Jesus Christ !

No, it's theology and that's not always debate. It's a study of God's Word.
With some people you can repeat the same scriptures over and over and they won't see it any differently. You are quite good a stating your theology, I stated mine in answer to you wanting me to argue your's.
The Word is quite capable of standing on it's own and is a witness to Jesus.
We are all here stating the Word and then giving our own commentary about what we think it says.
Have a blessed day, Rest in Him

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Antichrist crowd, they speak as if they give Christ all the credit for Salvation, but they really give themselves the credit for getting saved, instead of acknowledging that Christ's death alone is the meritorious cause of the Salvation of everyone He died for, though they would say they do, but yet, they really place the meritorious cause to the freewill of man, or mans decision making, the will of the creature ! If you press any of them far enough, they will come right out and admit, that the death of Christ in and of itself, saves no one, and some go as far as to say that the death of Christ in and of itself is absolutely worthless !

All such are Antichrist, they are against His Death being the Solitary meritorious cause of effecting Salvation for all whom Christ died ! 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The word healed here is the greek word ἰάομαι and actually means:

to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

 

[Mitspa]

The Antichrist crowd, they speak as if they give Christ all the credit for Salvation, but they really give themselves the credit for getting saved, instead of acknowledging that Christ's death alone is the meritorious cause of the Salvation of everyone He died for, though they would say they do, but yet, they really place the meritorious cause to the freewill of man, or mans decision making, the will of the creature ! If you press any of them far enough, they will come right out and admit, that the death of Christ in and of itself, saves no one, and some go as far as to say that the death of Christ in and of itself is absolutely worthless !

All such are Antichrist, they are against His Death being the Solitary meritorious cause of effecting Salvation for all whom Christ died ! 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The word healed here is the greek word ἰάομαι and actually means:

to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

The word is healed! used 30 times to descibe PHYSICAL healing!

iaomai
ee-ah'-om-ahee
Middle voice of apparently a primary verb; to cure (literally or figuratively): - heal, make whole.

Isa 53:5


But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

râphâ' râphâh

raw-faw',
raw-faw'

A primitive root; properly to mend (by stitching), that is, (figuratively) to cure: - cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, X thoroughly, make whole. See

 

[savedbygrace57]

No Conditions Required for Justification !


That there are no conditions on man's part required for Justification before God, and that it is totally of Grace apart from any work of ours, is seen most clearly in Paul's statement here Rom 4:4-5

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

There are Two points here Paul makes intelligible to show that Justification before God is freely by Grace with no conditions, for first he states " But to him that worketh not "

That means nothing man say's ,does, or thinks, is taken into account in the matter of Justification before God ! Notice " he that worketh not " the word for worketh here is ergazomai the middle voice of ergon which means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished or performed by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

The word work is defined therefore as any act, deed, or thing done, performed by the mind:

Such as believing, accepting or what have you, all of such must be excluded by Paul's statement " he that worketh not " ! If there is no working in Justification before God, then any conditions on man's part is forbidden ,plain and simple !

 

[Mitspa]

No Conditions Required for Justification !


That there are no conditions on man's part required for Justification before God, and that it is totally of Grace apart from any work of ours, is seen most clearly in Paul's statement here Rom 4:4-5

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

There are Two points here Paul makes intelligible to show that Justification before God is freely by Grace with no conditions, for first he states " But to him that worketh not "

That means nothing man say's ,does, or thinks, is taken into account in the matter of Justification before God ! Notice " he that worketh not " the word for worketh here is ergazomai the middle voice of ergon which means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished or performed by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

The word work is defined therefore as any act, deed, or thing done, performed by the mind:

Such as believing, accepting or what have you, all of such must be excluded by Paul's statement " he that worketh not " ! If there is no working in Justification before God, then any conditions on man's part is forbidden ,plain and simple !

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom 4:20

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21

And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22

And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

The promises of God, belong to those who believe not to the world!

 

[savedbygrace57]

No Conditions Required for Justification ! Pt 2

The word work is defined therefore as any act, deed, or thing done, performed by the mind:

Such as believing, accepting or what have you, all of such must be excluded by Paul's statement " he that worketh not " ! If there is no working in Justification before God, then any conditions on man's part is forbidden ,plain and simple !

And Next, " But believeth on Him that Justifieth the ungodly", then it is quite clear that Justification is past over unto a person while he or she is being ungodly ! In the greek it is He that is Justifying the Ungodly, with the definite article in front of ungodly depicting that they are in a state experientially of ungodliness when being declared Righteous ! That said, believing cannot be the condition, for believing is godliness and proceeds from sanctification of the Spirit, and also believing pleases God, but Paul's point here of Justification is that it is past upon a person while being in a state of ungodliness, in fact it is the same as when Paul stated that we [believers] were reconciled to God by the Death of Christ, WHILE being enemies or ungodly, or in wicked works Rom 5:10, for reconciliation with God legally and Justification before God legally, premised on the merits of Christ Death alone, they are one and the same, for you cannot be one without the other !

Those who deny this, are but denying the Gospel of Grace, and they are a false teacher under God's Judgment !

 

[Grazer]

So this covers non believers then since they don't believe therefore aren't doing any work?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kaliani]

Hi savedbygrace.

I have read the ideas you present in this thread with much interest.

You have described what you believe are the circumstances that lead people to fall into the sin of pride.

What about the sin of sloth?

Given your beliefs, do you think people are even capable of sloth?

 

[savedbygrace57]

So this covers non believers then since they don't believe therefore aren't doing any work?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

Please explain the point I am making in post 846 ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Hi savedbygrace.

I have read the ideas you present in this thread with much interest.

You have described what you believe are the circumstances that lead people to fall into the sin of pride.

What about the sin of sloth?

Given your beliefs, do you think people are even capable of sloth?

Please explain in detail what you believe i am stating ? Post 844 and 846 Thanks !

 

[Kaliani]

Well, SBG, from reading posts 844 and 846, I'd guess that you probably don't believe that there even exists such a thing as a sin of sloth.

I could be wrong, and if so, do correct me.

But if I happen to be right, then my next question is:

Why are you sharing your beliefs with anyone at all?

What good is it? God is not pleased by it. We can't use this information if we are predestined for hell - or heaven, for that matter.

Is it for your own enjoyment then?

Help me understand please.

 

[Mitspa]

No Conditions Required for Justification ! Pt 2

The word work is defined therefore as any act, deed, or thing done, performed by the mind:

Such as believing, accepting or what have you, all of such must be excluded by Paul's statement " he that worketh not " ! If there is no working in Justification before God, then any conditions on man's part is forbidden ,plain and simple !

And Next, " But believeth on Him that Justifieth the ungodly", then it is quite clear that Justification is past over unto a person while he or she is being ungodly ! In the greek it is He that is Justifying the Ungodly, with the definite article in front of ungodly depicting that they are in a state experientially of ungodliness when being declared Righteous ! That said, believing cannot be the condition, for believing is godliness and proceeds from sanctification of the Spirit, and also believing pleases God, but Paul's point here of Justification is that it is past upon a person while being in a state of ungodliness, in fact it is the same as when Paul stated that we [believers] were reconciled to God by the Death of Christ, WHILE being enemies or ungodly, or in wicked works Rom 5:10, for reconciliation with God legally and Justification before God legally, premised on the merits of Christ Death alone, they are one and the same, for you cannot be one without the other !

Those who deny this, are but denying the Gospel of Grace, and they are a false teacher under God's Judgment !

So to believe the scripture is work? so if one believes what Paul wrote then you cannot be saved? But if you dont read it or believe it then you can be saved?:eeeekkk

ergazomai- "Work"

Thayer Definition:
1) to work, labour, do work
2) to trade, to make gains by trading, "do business"
3) to do, work out
3a) exercise, perform, commit
3b) to cause to exist, produce
4) to work for, earn by working, to acquire

Your definition;
The word work is defined therefore as any act, deed, or thing done, performed by the mind::toofunny

 

[savedbygrace57]

No Conditions Required for Justification ! Pt 3

If we believe and trust to faith being an condition to our Justification before God, then we trust to our act, for faith or believing or trusting and the like is our act or our performance of mind and heart, WE DO IT ! So it is our work, there is no way around it, our believing act is our work, See definition of work ergon:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

ergon is also translated doing as here Rom 2:7

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Now, is not believing on Christ a well doing ? The rich young ruler asked this Matt 19:16

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

So if Justification before God depends on our believing act, on our doing well, then that contradicts Paul's clear Point here Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So to believe the scripture is work?

Yes. I gave the definition for work, it is the greek word
ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV

 

[Mitspa]

No Conditions Required for Justification ! Pt 3

If we believe and trust to faith being an condition to our Justification before God, then we trust to our act, for faith or believing or trusting and the like is our act or our performance of mind and heart, WE DO IT ! So it is our work, there is no way around it, our believing act is our work, See definition of work ergon:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

ergon is also translated doing as here Rom 2:7

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Now, is not believing on Christ a well doing ? The rich young ruler asked this Matt 19:16

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

So if Justification before God depends on our believing act, on our doing well, then that contradicts Paul's clear Point here Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 11:19

Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

 

[ezra]

i feel like i am reading post on a Calvinism forum with all the definitions:eeeekkk

 

[savedbygrace57]

No Conditions Required for Justification ! Pt 4

You see, Paul is teaching that an Justified ungodly man, is the one who believes, for it was not his faith or act of believing that did justify him before God, but it was Christ, His Blood, that actually Justified him Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

So it is, he that believeth on Him that Justifieth the ungodly, and not He that believeth on Him that Justifieth the believer Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 8:33

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Again, it is not the act of believing that Justifies before God, which false teachers have twisted the word of God to say ! It is a Him that Justifies, the act of God in Christ, not the act of man in his believing or faith !

 

[Kaliani]

i feel like i am reading post on a Calvinism forum with all the definitions:eeeekkk

Oh Calvinism, is that what savedbygrace57's theology is called?

Well, I might have to learn more about it by myself then. I don't know why, but savedbygrace doesn't seem to want to talk to me. Are there Calvinists on this forum that would be willing to?

Just to maybe explain Calvinism to those who don't understand it?

 

[2012]

Since atheists also browse it would be better for you to also just state what you mean without the quotes because they may not be motivated to read that.. for atheists it's no different from quoting Grimm's Fairy Tales (in a more unattractive format... Grimm's has no title and chapter and colon, etc). If you just want agreement though maybe Christian Life would be better.

I don't think it's the man of sin but freewill if it means doing whatever you like sounds bad and selfish.

 

[Mitspa]

Since atheists also browse it would be better for you to also just state what you mean without the quotes because they may not be motivated to read that.. for atheists it's no different from quoting Grimm's Fairy Tales (in a more unattractive format... Grimm's has no title and chapter and colon, etc). If you just want agreement though maybe Christian Life would be better.

I don't think it's the man of sin but freewill if it means doing whatever you like sounds bad and selfish.

Did you come here just to insult the scriptures? Why would one come on a "Christian" forum and be suprised that they are using "scripture" to make their points?
Do you go to KFC and get offended because they are serving chicken?