Freewill religion ! - Part 2

[Sinthesis]

If you can't reject it, then salvation is not a gift, but a sentence.

 

[About the Son of God]

If you can't reject it, then salvation is not a gift, but a sentence.

But, some can reject it -- some can't -- is also a possibility.
There is the issue of spoils taken in war, called "Anathema"; Paul says at one point, "I could be cut off [anathema] for the sake of my brothers."
Paul, recall, was struck down on the road to emmaeus. But, Paul's experience is not every christians experience.

 

[Sinthesis]

If you can't reject it, then salvation is not a gift, but a sentence.

But, some can reject it -- some can't -- is also a possibility.
There is the issue of spoils taken in war, called "Anathema"; Paul says at one point, "I could be cut off [anathema] for the sake of my brothers."
Paul, recall, was struck down on the road to emmaeus. But, Paul's experience is not every christians experience.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow. My understanding of Romans 9:3 must be different than yours.

 

[Asyncritus]

To me? I'd like to buy you and others here a pizza and spring for the check simply because the trade-off for spiritual food, inviting the Holy Spirit to commune with us, is far more valuable than mere pizza, it's the yeast I can do, right?

I'll take you up on that one day!

But thanks for the cordial welcome!

 

[MarkT]

If you can't reject it, then salvation is not a gift, but a sentence.

You have every right to reject eternal life and be cast into hell if you want.

Eternal life or eternal punishment. Tough choice. And there's no third option.

Serve God or be cast out. What do you think? You can't serve two masters. And Jesus might say 'I never knew you' and cast you out anyway.

 

[mondar]

If you can't reject it, then salvation is not a gift, but a sentence.

But, some can reject it -- some can't -- is also a possibility.
There is the issue of spoils taken in war, called "Anathema"; Paul says at one point, "I could be cut off [anathema] for the sake of my brothers."
Paul, recall, was struck down on the road to emmaeus. But, Paul's experience is not every christians experience.

Is Emmaus anywhere near Damascus?

 

[Sparkey]

Serve God or be cast out. What do you think? You can't serve two masters. And Jesus might say 'I never knew you' and cast you out anyway.

Greetings again MarkT. Because this is the Apologetics section, sometimes I feel the need to preface what I'm about to say with a disclaimer, that my statements are not offered in direct opposition to the statements made by others. I know that's the nature of Ye Old Snakepit, also called "The Wilderness," but I choose to be non-compliant (sometimes) and to speak counter to expectation even here, in our Ye Old Apologetics and Theology forum.

When I hear mention of the Words of The Christ, and how he will close the door to the feast prepared by His Father for him saying, "I never knew you," one of the things that occurs to me is a question, "Just what does that mean, "I don't know you." If I am expert in something and could call myself a "master" of that specific skill or topic, if I have more than 10 years of experience where I have diligently sought to understand and if I could be said to be qualified even to teach others? Some might say that I know my subject. That would mean that I have sufficient knowledge, gained in my studies, to be able to routinely and accurately predict what could and what would likely happen and under what circumstance. I know. Now, that does not necessarily extend the requirement of "mastery" to the place where I can control every circumstance but only to the degree necessary to accomplish the set task.

If Jesus were to say, "Depart from me," and follow it with, "I never knew you," I would suspect immediately that the ultimate cause for His not knowing me is that I am not faithful, that I did not behave consistently, that in fact, I had contempt to his command, "If you love me, obey me." I would further suspect that upon examination, my life events would amply demonstrate this disregard in my dealings with others. Truly one can not serve two masters.

 

[MarkT]

What can I say? You know me well.

Here's more:

Give ear and hear my voice, Listen and hear my speech.

Does the plowman keep plowing all day to sow? Does he keep turning his soil and breaking the clods? When he has leveled its surface, Does he not sow the black cummin And scatter the cummin, Plant the wheat in rows, The barley in the appointed place, And the spelt in its place? For He instructs him in right judgment, His God teaches him.

For the black cummin is not threshed with a threshing sledge, Nor is a cartwheel rolled over the cummin; But the black cummin is beaten out with a stick, And the cummin with a rod.​

Bread [flour] must be ground; Therefore he does not thresh it forever, Break [it with] his cartwheel, Or crush it [with] his horsemen.​

This also comes from the LORD of hosts, [Who] is wonderful in counsel [and] excellent in guidance.

You've heard that we are to become fishers of men. And I say that it is okay to till the soil; there is much wisdom to be learned. Or do you think that he was speaking of wheat? He speaks of us. Now how we are to learn to do the Will of God, to partake in His nature and to strive for peace. How may we prove ourselves to God?

The soil is the heart of man. God tills the soil, and when he has levelled the soil he scatters dill and he sows cummin and he puts wheat in rows and barley in the appointed places and the spelt in its place at the border. God does these things. We can do nothing on our own. God will not till the soil forever.

Everything will come up in its time, in it's season. The wheat will come up last; wheat and spelt are late in coming up. Dill is beaten out with a stick, and cummin with a rod, but wheat, when he drives his cartwheel over it, is not crushed. This is the decree of destruction from the LORD GOD of hosts upon the whole land.

 

[Sparkey]

but wheat, when he drives his cartwheel over it, is not crushed. This is the decree of destruction from the LORD GOD of hosts upon the whole land.

That's part of the process, yes. But if the end result is bread? Even the bread of life? We do not see any farmer even so much as using a horse (flesh) for the purpose of grinding.

 

[MarkT]

Serve God or be cast out. What do you think? You can't serve two masters. And Jesus might say 'I never knew you' and cast you out anyway.

Greetings again MarkT. Because this is the Apologetics section, sometimes I feel the need to preface what I'm about to say with a disclaimer, that my statements are not offered in direct opposition to the statements made by others. I know that's the nature of Ye Old Snakepit, also called "The Wilderness," but I choose to be non-compliant (sometimes) and to speak counter to expectation even here, in our Ye Old Apologetics and Theology forum.

When I hear mention of the Words of The Christ, and how he will close the door to the feast prepared by His Father for him saying, "I never knew you," one of the things that occurs to me is a question, "Just what does that mean, "I don't know you." If I am expert in something and could call myself a "master" of that specific skill or topic, if I have more than 10 years of experience where I have diligently sought to understand and if I could be said to be qualified even to teach others? Some might say that I know my subject. That would mean that I have sufficient knowledge, gained in my studies, to be able to routinely and accurately predict what could and what would likely happen and under what circumstance. I know. Now, that does not necessarily extend the requirement of "mastery" to the place where I can control every circumstance but only to the degree necessary to accomplish the set task.

If Jesus were to say, "Depart from me," and follow it with, "I never knew you," I would suspect immediately that the ultimate cause for His not knowing me is that I am not faithful, that I did not behave consistently, that in fact, I had contempt to his command, "If you love me, obey me." I would further suspect that upon examination, my life events would amply demonstrate this disregard in my dealings with others. Truly one can not serve two masters.

If he made his home in you, then he knows you.

 

[Sparkey]

I'd like to quote a friend of mine and ask to be allowed to say my piece.

It's about wheat flour. Something that I'm experienced in. Back in the day, I accepted the task (for pay) to help unload a truckload of the stuff. The truck pulled up to the processing plant and my part was to help guide the 100 lb bags of flour as they rolled off the truck onto pallets so that they could be moved into the facility and used to produce tortilla shells to later be sold to restaurants. That's the job of a young man and it took effort, more effort than I could muster today at 60 years of age, that's for sure.

Now, let me ask you, "Have you ever tasted wheat flour?" Ever dip your finger in, maybe while making bread just to taste the stuff? Okay, maybe you know. But have you ever tasted a whole cup of the stuff at one time? I never have and it would be very difficult for me to imagine anybody doing such a thing except on a dare, and even then, it would be amusing to watch. Of course, the reason behind it, is because wheat flour is not meant to be eaten "raw" but instead it is just one component, one ingredient needed for bread. I love bread.

Thanks now, for letting me say my peace. WE are the meal, being prepared for our Master. What servant, after having prepared a meal, immediately sits down to eat? Does not the good servant wait until his master has eaten, and then, wait again for the invitation to join? Here then, an invitation that has been given to another man and here also is his "piece" to our shared communion. This next comes from a poet, a guy known as Kahlil Gibran. Here's the link: "Love"

 

[MarkT]

but wheat, when he drives his cartwheel over it, is not crushed. This is the decree of destruction from the LORD GOD of hosts upon the whole land.

That's part of the process, yes. But if the end result is bread? Even the bread of life? We do not see any farmer even so much as using a horse (flesh) for the purpose of grinding.

The bread of life? Jesus is the bread of life. We are the wheat.

This is what Isaiah heard from the LORD concerning the day of the LORD. So this is a prophecy. This is what will be. The wheat will be ground into flour but not crushed. The horses are the horses in Rev.

 

[MarkT]

I'd like to quote a friend of mine and ask to be allowed to say my piece.

It's about wheat flour. Something that I'm experienced in. Back in the day, I accepted the task (for pay) to help unload a truckload of the stuff. The truck pulled up to the processing plant and my part was to help guide the 100 lb bags of flour as they rolled off the truck onto pallets so that they could be moved into the facility and used to produce tortilla shells to later be sold to restaurants. That's the job of a young man and it took effort, more effort than I could muster today at 60 years of age, that's for sure.

Now, let me ask you, "Have you ever tasted wheat flour?" Ever dip your finger in, maybe while making bread just to taste the stuff? Okay, maybe you know. But have you ever tasted a whole cup of the stuff at one time? I never have and it would be very difficult for me to imagine anybody doing such a thing except on a dare, and even then, it would be amusing to watch. Of course, the reason behind it, is because wheat flour is not meant to be eaten "raw" but instead it is just one component, one ingredient needed for bread. I love bread.

Thanks now, for letting me say my peace. WE are the meal, being prepared for our Master. What servant, after having prepared a meal, immediately sits down to eat? Does not the good servant wait until his master has eaten, and then, wait again for the invitation to join? Here then, an invitation that has been given to another man and here also is his "piece" to our shared communion. This next comes from a poet, a guy known as Kahlil Gibran. Here's the link: "Love"

Of course you love bread, but this isn't about making bread or eating bread. This is about the day of judgment. All of these things will take place on that day. The weeds will be gathered and burned. The wheat will be gathered into the granary. The cartwheel and the horses represent the final battle.

Actually, I'm giving you Isaiah's bread, the bread that was given to him, the bread of the LORD.

60 years old? Me too. When is your birthday?

 

[Sparkey]

Hammer's and blunt instruments unite! There is no need for further delicacy.

Sparrowhawk's aren't known for their birdsong, not that much:

♪♫ Many the mystery of the written word...
Often read, seldom heard. ♪♫​

An excerpt of a song, composed in the heart of yours truly. It sounds better than the usual "Squawk!" and "Eek!" that leaks out of me during unguarded moments, right?

 

[Sparkey]

If what I think of as being dared to eat a cup of wheat flour is being offered (and I'm not saying that's what your doing, only that I might think of it that way) I would expect that the one asking will also be able to hear the reply, previously given, "No, thanks. I think it's better that I don't."

But I will tell you about the time when I dared a guy to snort a teaspoon of salt directly into his nose. He did it, much to his personal consternation and to the amusement of other members of the audience. I was also amused but kept my part of the bargain and gave him the shirt off my back. It was one of those tee-shirts that had a picture of that Martian seen in cartoons pointing a gun. He contented himself with the bargained reward even as his eyes teared up.

You know proverbs. What about 1:17?

 

[Sparkey]

Actually, I'm giving you Isaiah's bread, the bread of the LORD.

I've noticed that you have gone back and edited the above. May I also then, edit my thoughts and say that WE are sharing as we may, at the Lord's table? When it comes to the final battle, and those circumstances surrounding the prophesied Day of the Lord, and as spoken by Isaiah, I'd like to point to the fact that day has not arrived in its fullness. But then, you already know.

 

[MarkT]

Actually, I'm giving you Isaiah's bread, the bread of the LORD.

I've noticed that you have gone back and edited the above. May I also then, edit my thoughts and say that WE are sharing as we may, at the Lord's table? When it comes to the final battle, and those circumstances surrounding the prophesied Day of the Lord, and as spoken by Isaiah, I'd like to point to the fact that day has not arrived in its fullness. But then, you already know.

Yeah. It's more of a spiritual feast right now. I'm looking forward to a real feast when our lord Jesus returns.

When O Lord? How long?

 

[Sparkey]

I'm convinced that we (even you, even me) are being prepared. The angels have their part in this. Looking back to the context of the passage of Isaiah, and continuing in my liberty to take things out of context, but without the intent of twisting, we see a larger piece of the problem for the Lord declares (paraphrase) that all the altars are polluted with vomit. This reminder brings my mind to something that Paul and also another Member here, About the Son of God, spoke about -- from what a minor Prophet, Malachi said. This quote from Isa 28:

[Isa 28:8-9 NASB]... For all the tables are full of filthy vomit, without a single clean place. "To whom would He teach knowledge, And to whom would He interpret the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just taken from the breast?

Surely there is need in the body now for those who are able to give the pure milk of the word, who are able to join their voices to the Shulamite and declare, "My breasts are like towers," but the question asked by God as expressed through Isaiah asks who will be able to stand in that Great and Terrible Day of the Lord? Will this task be given to babes in Christ, just taken from the breast? Or will it be given to those who have just begun to cut their baby teeth on meat? I think that that Lord has more in store for us than what we can imagine even at the furthest stretch of our imagination.

The later rain is the greater.

 

[Sparkey]

We've touched upon the sayings of Jesus and one of the things that some will hear, "Depart from me. I do not know you."

There are other parables that may be mentioned in connection to this, one that springs to mind is the parable of the 5 wise, and 5 foolish virgins. With this in mind, I can also recall something else, another ingredient that may be added to the meal we share, if you will. This is from a work, now found in Public Domain titled, Manners and Customs of Bible Lands (by Fred H. Wight). Here's a paragraph that I clipped from chapter 18, Shepherd Life; The care of sheep and goats.

Care of sick or wounded sheep.

The shepherd is always on the lookout for members of his flock
that need personal attention. Sometimes a lamb suffers from the rays of the sun, or its body may
have been badly scratched by some thornbush. The most common remedy he uses with these
sheep is olive oil, a supply of which he carries in a ram's hom.

I've read elsewhere (can't remember the source) that sometimes sheep are bothered by a particularly nasty type of fly that is in the habit of laying eggs on the face of the poor animal. The treatment given to this lamb of God, who could die if left unattended, is to rub oil directly on its face. This reminds me of yet another phrase we are familiar with, "to make our face to shine [in the presence of the Lord]." Is there a connection, a common thread to all this? To the meal that we are preparing as servants for our Master's consumption? To the anointing that has been used during inauguration into office, to that very same oil mentioned in the short, 3-line Psalm, numbered as Ps 133, and it's mention of where the blessing is commanded, to the care and feeding of sheep and also to our little forum here, where many agitated sheep may be found, bleating out their cry for the care and attention of their Master, our Lord, also known as Jesus?

You tell me. I would also ask you to join me in prayer. Prayer for this forum, inviting Christ to dine here with us, inviting Him to inhabit His peace into one and every member who will. Behold, I stand at the door, knocking. To any who open the door and invite me in? I will come in and will dine with them.

And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing -- let him say, ...

 

[Asyncritus]

Hey Guys

Just a quick line to say goodbye.

I'm leaving the christianforums.net now, because I'm causing the poor moderators too much grief in the Science forum, because of my satirical and comical attacks on evolution.

It's been great being here, even though I'm a storm petrel on many fronts.

If anyone wishes to contact me, please write to htwfmol@hotmail.com

Thanks once again for your hospitality, and the great time I've had debating, jousting, and generally enjoying myself with you all.

May God bless your efforts, each and every one.

Asyncritus