Full of Christ

[K2CHRIST]

There is an objective that we then to miss. We are supposed to grow to a point to where we are all full of Christ, and I believe we often don't take that literally enough.

Eph 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith

First we need to understand that Christ is to dwell in us. And I don't believe we take that as literal as we need. He, our Lord Jesus Christ, should actually be dwelling in us.

Now if He through whom all things were created is actually living in us, nothing should be impossible for us to do. Not that we actually do it, but because God is actually living in us.

Eph 3:20 Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us.

According to that verse we will and should be doing far more than we think. Of course is we are going to do more than we think, we need to talk to Him who literally lives in us to found out what He thinks needs to be done, so that we can obediently go about do it. But perhaps we do not yet understand this?

Eph 4:11-14 And He gave some as apostle...prophets...evangelists... pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints... to the building up of the Body of Christ.... to the measure... which belongs to the fullness of Christ

So He gives us people to build up the Body of Christ and that to achieve a measure which is "fullness" of Christ. We are being built and that with Christ so that we are literally full of Christ.

Num. 6:25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

We are suppose to bless our kids with the above. That His face would shine upon them. And I am not sure we understand that literally enough either. If they become full of Christ, whose face would you see?

Moses had a face, but after meeting with God the face of Moses shined so much that the people had trouble looking upon it. So were the people seeing Moses or God? And if God, who is spirit, then was not Moses filled with Christ, literally speaking?

There are times when I look at someone and just know that shine I see on their face is from the presence of God in them. I believe that at that time they were literally filled with Christ, and we are all supposed to being built to that point.

 

[Jim Parker]

Eph 4:11-14 And He gave some as apostle...prophets...evangelists... pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints... to the building up of the Body of Christ.... to the measure... which belongs to the fullness of Christ

What translation is that?
Here's a better rendering from the RSV:
Eph 4:11-13 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

The purpose is that we be just like Christ, bearing the fullness of the presence of God withi9n us and only doing that which the Father gives us to do. We are to mature into being God-men in a manner similar to Christ. He was God who became man. We are men who are to mature and become God-like by the indwelling of the Trinity.

There are times when I look at someone and just know that shine I see on their face is from the presence of God in them. I believe that at that time they were literally filled with Christ,

I have seen that as well. I have seen the beauty of the Lord come out of people.

Good post, by the way.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[K2CHRIST]

What translation is that?
Here's a better rendering from the RSV:
Eph 4:11-13 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

The purpose is that we be just like Christ, bearing the fullness of the presence of God withi9n us and only doing that which the Father gives us to do. We are to mature into being God-men in a manner similar to Christ. He was God who became man. We are men who are to mature and become God-like by the indwelling of the Trinity.



I have seen that as well. I have seen the beauty of the Lord come out of people.

Good post, by the way.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

As far as translations, I usually use the NASB, and that is where I got the verse. As far as the best translation; I used to own a Christian bookstore and Zondervan Pub. sent out a comparison chart on the different translations. They rated the NASB as the closest word for word translation. Of course some feel we get a better translation with paraphrases instead of trying to stay word for word and they may be correct, but I find the NASB very east to read and I like the accuracy.

Anyway, we still have the question of what are we trying to do. Are we trying to do nice things according to our understanding or are we trying to follow Christ with the understanding that He is inside us. What does this fullness thing mean?

When we write "bearing the fullness of the presence of God within us", are we making any practical sense? Are we explaining ourselves clearly?

It used to be common to say WWJD. I remember it always being presented as trying to do what we thought Jesus Christ might do if we were in His shoes. So in general, let us all be nice to our neighbor. When I first had heard this teaching it sounded good to me, but that was before I got to know the Lord. When I got to know Him and found that I could hear from Him inside me that it all changed. At least for me; others were still taking WWJD to mean be nice to others as opposed to meaning seek the Lord inside them for instructions. And there is a major difference.

I can try to be nice according to my understanding, or I can seek and hear the voice of the Lord inside me and do what He says.

And Paul writes about this very thing in Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find our from you; did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

So the initial meaning I got from WWJD was a works of the Law type of message, but surely none saying WWJD made that connection. And neither did I when I first heard it. But after knowing the Lord and hearing Him by faith I did make that connection, and that because I received the Spirit because I heard Him by faith.

Then it became a question of how much and how often I would hear what He had to say by faith. And how much I was going to apply it? And how many aspects of my life I was going to let Him control in my life? So how much of God did I want in my life? How full of Him was I willing to be?

Then I found out that the more I listened and let Him into and rule my life, the more of His presence or Spirit I seemed to feel in me. It is a bit hard to explain, but as I listen to Him more and more and followed His instructions in smaller and smaller ways I could feel His presence more and more. It would seem like a tingly feeling, or sometime like a fire building inside me (a bit like heart burn). I could feel Him, inside me. The feeling isn't constant but rather it comes and goes.

And I found that when I laid hands on people I could pick up this energy inside me moving though me and into others. It feels a bit like electricity moving though me but slower. And it wouldn't move into some people and it would move in slower or faster with others, but I would sense the movement of the Spirit or presence through me. And it became clear that the people I prayed for somehow were also picking it up, though often not as clearly as I could pick it up. Those I felt the Spirit move into often wound up in tears or wound up feeling a great peace or joy. And those whom I didn't feel the presence move into seem to stand ha like a brick wall.

I talked to other Christians and some knew of what I was talking about but many if not most did not. Yet the ones that knew about this were clearly the more anointed Christians. For example, in the healing ministry the Lord has me in, it seems at least half serving there know what I am saying, while most in a school of ministry I recently went through did not know. And the most anointed Christian often get that glow about them.

And these thoughts about being full of Christ did not generate with me, but I was reading a book on John G. Lake while the Lord started talking to me about it and giving me a teaching on it. It was a little vague because the Lord asked me a lot of questions for me to think on, as opposed to just telling me a lot of answers. John G. Lake apparently thought we were supposed to be full of Christ in a somewhat literal sense. John G. Lake also believed, in a scientific way, that the power of God literally moved through us into others and cause healing in them.

So as I mentioned in the origin post, I don't believe we take this "fullness of Christ" literal enough. If faith in God is a substance, and it is written that it is, then can we be full of faith in a literal sense? It seemingly takes being Spirit filled to a new meaning, but perhaps the literal meaning is what we are trying to obtain?

Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

WWJD - Jesus said He did and said only what the Father told Him. So was not Jesus Christ full of faith "a substance", and or full of the Spirit of God?

Rom 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

It seems to me that some things in the Bible are taken too literal and others things are not taken literal enough, and that we often to get it wrong as to which things should be taken literal and which ones should not be. I think we might literally supposed to be full of a substance called 'faith' which might very literally take us to a point where we are full of the Spirit of God which might literally mean we a full of Jesus Christ because God is One. Not that we have obtained it, but that is what we are pressing towards. And faith comes by hearing.

 

[Jim Parker]

When we write "bearing the fullness of the presence of God within us", are we making any practical sense? Are we explaining ourselves clearly?

It is succinctly stated in the Orthodox churches. Generally, the western churches would not understand and be offended so I'll refrain from sharing exactly what ancient theologians like Athanasius, the champion of the Trinity, stated. Essentially, we are to be just like Jesus as God-bearing human beings. The experience you describe seem to be in line with that view.

It is difficult to communicate experience. I reminded of the meme; Q: "Why do you ride a motorcycle?" A: "If i have to explain, you wouldn't understand."

Mark 16:17-18

Keep it up.

iakov the fool

 

[K2CHRIST]

It is succinctly stated in the Orthodox churches. Generally, the western churches would not understand and be offended so I'll refrain from sharing exactly what ancient theologians like Athanasius, the champion of the Trinity, stated. Essentially, we are to be just like Jesus as God-bearing human beings. The experience you describe seem to be in line with that view.

It is difficult to communicate experience. I reminded of the meme; Q: "Why do you ride a motorcycle?" A: "If i have to explain, you wouldn't understand."

Mark 16:17-18

Keep it up.

iakov the fool

Thanks - I think it might be. I don't know how sure I am of it. I just read something John G Lake had written and got to talking about it to the Lord. He didn't actually tell me one way or the other but got me thinking more about it, so I appreciate your input and loved the information about "being like Jesus as a God-bearing human being". It seem kind of strange that it comes out of the Orthodox churches, who generally seem more religious and dependent on tradition and ceremony, but I think there is a lot more to the statement than we tend to realize. Thanks

 

[Jim Parker]

Thanks - I think it might be. I don't know how sure I am of it. I just read something John G Lake had written and got to talking about it to the Lord. He didn't actually tell me one way or the other but got me thinking more about it, so I appreciate your input and loved the information about "being like Jesus as a God-bearing human being". It seem kind of strange that it comes out of the Orthodox churches, who generally seem more religious and dependent on tradition and ceremony, but I think there is a lot more to the statement than we tend to realize. Thanks

The tradition on which we depend is the teaching of the apostles which can be found in the writings of the early church fathers.
The "ceremony" is the "liturgy" (Romans call it the "Mass") which has maintained its basic form since the late first century. (As reported by Justin Martyr)

The champion of the Trinitarian view in the debates with the Neo-Platonist Arius' teaching that Jesus was a created being, was Athanasius. His comment on being "God-bearing men" was, "God became man so that man could become God." Of course, we don't change our nature from creature to divine; we cannot. But as Peter said, we "become partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4 RSV)
We "become God" by being "in Christ" ( 2Co 5:17) and "one flesh with" Christ (Eph 5:31-32) who is God.

Paul also tells us that believers are "predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren." (Ro 8:28 RSV). He also said that believers are to be built up "until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph 4:13 RSV)

So, when someone meets a mature Christian, it should be an encounter with Christ because the believer allows God to work through him without hindrance from the believer's ego and will.

There's an old joke about pipe tobacco which is sold in cans. One brand was called "Prince Albert."
Telephone call to tobacconist:
T. Hello
C. Do you have "Prince Albert" in a can?
T. Yes we do.
C. Well,, you better let him out! (ha ha ha)

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, to show that the transcendent power belongs to God and not to us.(
2Co 4:7 RSV)
Let Him out.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[K2CHRIST]

The tradition on which we depend is the teaching of the apostles which can be found in the writings of the early church fathers.
The "ceremony" is the "liturgy" (Romans call it the "Mass") which has maintained its basic form since the late first century. (As reported by Justin Martyr)

The champion of the Trinitarian view in the debates with the Neo-Platonist Arius' teaching that Jesus was a created being, was Athanasius. His comment on being "God-bearing men" was, "God became man so that man could become God." Of course, we don't change our nature from creature to divine; we cannot. But as Peter said, we "become partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4 RSV)
We "become God" by being "in Christ" ( 2Co 5:17) and "one flesh with" Christ (Eph 5:31-32) who is God.

Paul also tells us that believers are "predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren." (Ro 8:28 RSV). He also said that believers are to be built up "until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph 4:13 RSV)

So, when someone meets a mature Christian, it should be an encounter with Christ because the believer allows God to work through him without hindrance from the believer's ego and will.

There's an old joke about pipe tobacco which is sold in cans. One brand was called "Prince Albert."
Telephone call to tobacconist:
T. Hello
C. Do you have "Prince Albert" in a can?
T. Yes we do.
C. Well,, you better let him out! (ha ha ha)

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, to show that the transcendent power belongs to God and not to us.(
2Co 4:7 RSV)
Let Him out.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

I really like the above post. And it gets to a point I feel needs to be made, and what I believe often gets missed. That is that we have Christ in us. So if in us, are we trying to let Him out of us, or work through us or are we just trying to be good the best we can? Yet there is more to "fullness" than just Him being in us.

Since we see a fullness of Christ mentioned, there must be a possibility of having more of Him, or perhaps it is more like letting Him work though us more. I'm not sure, but the "fullness" must have some meaning to "God bearing" people that represent a greater amount of Him. And that measure of "fullness" often missed, even in the above post, isn't it?

Eph 3:17-19 (NIV) So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wise and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

Above we see the Christ dwells in us through faith, and the prayer is that we may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. So there is a measure that is not fullness, otherwise there is no prayer. And there is a connection with having power, love, some wisdom and a knowledge that surpasses knowledge. Paul by his prayer and mention of this fullness was clearly promoting this greater measure called "fullness of God." And in what I was reading about John G. Lake; he also was promoting this fullness of God or Christ in us. Not only that Christ was in us, but also something about a measure that is called "fullness".

I have seen that some Christians seem to have a greater anointing or presence of God about them and something about it moving through them. Jesus felt that power went out of Him and a lady got healed. Paul would touch a piece of cloth and that cloth would heal someone if brought to them. Peter's shadow might heal someone. In my reading about John G. Lake apparently over 100,000 people got healed through him, and he was promoting this "fullness". So it is not just the Christ is in us, but also a measure and the ability for a flow coming from us.

I think about what happens in the healing ministry God wanted me to work in, and I feel something moving through me when I anoint and pray for people. Perhaps it is HIs presence or power? I am not sure, but I am aware of something like electricity moving through me, and others I work with report the same thing. And our prayer often comes to just praying for more for them. More of what? Well, more of whatever is going through me, which I believe is the presence or the Spirit of the Lord in me. I want them full of that which is moving though me, and which seems to have an impact of them.

I mean; it is all nice and wonderful to have a theory and understanding of God, but that measure of power, presence, the Spirit, love of God, or whatever I feel flowing through me, which I pray the God would give more of to the people, seems to really be the important part. It effects and even heals people. .

 

[smaller]

IF any believer wants "more of Christ" they might examine the scriptural reasons they don't have more.

What they might find out is that there is built in resistance to "more." Romans 7:17-21.

An accurate description of the problems usually contains 90% of the solution.

 

[Jim Parker]

I mean; it is all nice and wonderful to have a theory and understanding of God, but that measure of power, presence, the Spirit, love of God, or whatever I feel flowing through me, which I pray the God would give more of to the people, seems to really be the important part. It effects and even heals people. .

1Co 2:4-5 (NKJV) And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.