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Futurism&TheTemple

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jasoncran said:
your problem not mine.
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How is it my problem. That came straight from your link to Daniel 9:27.

for one week: He will promise them the strengthening of a covenant and peace for seven years, but within the seven years, he will abrogate his covenant. : he will abolish sacrifice and meal-offering: This is what he says in the first vision (8:26): “and in tranquility he will destroy many.†Through a covenant of tranquility, he will destroy them.
 
thightower said:
How is it my problem. That came straight from your link to Daniel 9:27.

for one week: He will promise them the strengthening of a covenant and peace for seven years, but within the seven years, he will abrogate his covenant. : he will abolish sacrifice and meal-offering: This is what he says in the first vision (8:26): “and in tranquility he will destroy many.†Through a covenant of tranquility, he will destroy them.
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you believe in the aod and yet not a temple that will be there. that link supports ad 70 and also what happened during antiochus ephinese iv. see the channukah thread.

rashi is a jew and not a christian.

rashi lived in the tenth century. and well if you read what the greeks did that is what they tried to do.

ah josephus. hmm he tried to get the jews to surrender.
http://josephus.org/causeofDestruct.htm#fulfilment
 
thightower said:
I thought we were discussing the aod and the temple, yet you acuse me now of not believeing in the temple.
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well you say that the temple is in revalation. um the sheer dimensions of that cant allow it to be in isreal. it would well cover the entire state. its about the size of north america!!!!!!!!!!

i suggest you read this from josephus.

War 6.5.3 288-309
Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them. Star and Comet
Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year.
Light Around the Altar
Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan, April, about a week before Passover] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. Cow Gives Birth to Lamb
At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. The Eastern Gate
Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again.
This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them. Miraculous Phenomenon of Chariots in the Air
Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Iyar, May or June] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Sound of a Great Multitude
Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." Jesus son of Ananias: A Voice from the East
But, what is still more terrible, there was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for every one to make tabernacles to God in the temple [Sukkot, autumn, 62 CE], began on a sudden to cry aloud,
"A voice from the east,
a voice from the west,
a voice from the four winds,
a voice against Jerusalem and the Holy House,
a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides,
and a voice against this whole people!"
This was his cry, as he went about by day and by night, in all the lanes of the city.
However, certain of the most eminent among the populace had great indignation at this dire cry of his, and took up the man, and gave him a great number of severe stripes; yet did not he either say any thing for himself, or any thing peculiar to those that chastised him, but still went on with the same words which he cried before.
Hereupon the magistrates, supposing, as the case proved to be, that this was a sort of divine fury in the man, brought him to the Roman procurator, where he was whipped till his bones were laid bare; yet he did not make any supplication for himself, nor shed any tears, but turning his voice to the most lamentable tone possible, at every stroke of the whip his answer was,
"Woe, woe to Jerusalem!"
And when Albinus (for he was then our procurator) asked him, Who he was? and whence he came? and why he uttered such words? he made no manner of reply to what he said, but still did not leave off his melancholy ditty, till Albinus took him to be a madman, and dismissed him.
Now, during all the time that passed before the war began, this man did not go near any of the citizens, nor was seen by them while he said so; but he every day uttered these lamentable words, as if it were his premeditated vow,
"Woe, woe to Jerusalem!"
Nor did he give ill words to any of those that beat him every day, nor good words to those that gave him food; but this was his reply to all men, and indeed no other than a melancholy presage of what was to come.
This cry of his was the loudest at the festivals; and he continued this ditty for seven years and five months, without growing hoarse, or being tired therewith, until the very time that he saw his presage in earnest fulfilled in our siege, when it ceased; for as he was going round upon the wall, he cried out with his utmost force,
"Woe, woe to the city again, and to the people, and to the Holy House!"
And just as he added at the last,
"Woe, woe to myself also!" there came a stone out of one of the engines, and smote him, and killed him immediately; and as he was uttering the very same presages he gave up the ghost.
​
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http://josephus.org/causeofDestruct.htm#fulfilment
 
The temple you say is as big as the state of israel has a diferent meaning to me. Revelation 21, it says it will be the new jerusalem, brought down from heaven by God.
 
thightower said:
The temple you say is as big as the state of israel has a diferent meaning to me. Revelation 21, it says it will be the new jerusalem, brought down from heaven by God.
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ok so then reconcile that idea with the aod. the aod must have a temple for it to be.

the later isnt literal. if its on the earth then outside of it ON the EARTH there is hell.

might want to think that is by word meanings something else.
 
thightower said:
I think I'm going to call it agree to disagree. Only time will tell the truth.
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:eeeekkk an aod without a temple? theres clear teaching on it. the sages taught it and even jesus told the jews then look for it. when you see it run!

the teaching of the aod was the roman legion with the idea of the image of their god. that they would enter the temple and defile it.

that is in part. why would jesus in your opinion have the jews then be clueless and tell them teach this and look for this if they werent meant to know?
 
I want to say first I have the greatest respect for the nation a people of Israel. But you keep wanting me to see your point of view from Judaism. How can we see eye to eye when Judaism doesn't believe in Christ in the first place. You keep quoting sages, and Josephus and all these other Judaism writers, How can I really take it a 100% truth when they don't believe in Christ. The bible is my ultimate authority.
 
thightower said:
I want to say first I have the greatest respect for the nation a people of Israel. But you keep wanting me to see your point of view from Judaism. How can we see eye to eye when Judaism doesn't believe in Christ in the first place. You keep quoting sages, and Josephus and all these other Judaism writers, How can I really take it a 100% truth when they don't believe in Christ. The bible is my ultimate authority.
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And yet when Jesus says the resurrection is at the last day you disagree, hmmmm
 
thightower said:
I went and talked to my pastor this morning to see if was headed iin the right direction. His take on Daniel was it started at the Babilonian ocupation to the AoD of 70 ad. To me that settles that discution. As for Revelation, it was supposed to have been written from 70 - 96 ad, which to me still stands as proof for me. That leaves Matthew 24, which we know is Jesus' answer to the disciple's question of the signs of his return.
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His take on Daniel was it started at the Babilonian ocupation to the AoD of 70 ad. To me that settles that discution.
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Brother,

please consider the time-frame of the captivity in Babylon until the Christ, before you settle the matter of Daniel's 70 weeks extending to 70 AD.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17


Babylonian Captivity to Christ = 14 generations = 560 years.


Time of Captivity = 70 years.


560 -70 = 490 years = 70 weeks.

This is not the entire study, but a short outline for you to consider that the prophecy of Daniel may not have run concurrent through 70 AD.


Also, note that the 69th week ended "before" Messiah was "cut off" [Crucified], which was 33 AD.


Best case scenario for 70 weeks to end if they ran concurrent would be 40 AD.


Please consider.




JLB




 
thightower said:
I want to say first I have the greatest respect for the nation a people of Israel. But you keep wanting me to see your point of view from Judaism. How can we see eye to eye when Judaism doesn't believe in Christ in the first place. You keep quoting sages, and Josephus and all these other Judaism writers, How can I really take it a 100% truth when they don't believe in Christ. The bible is my ultimate authority.
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because im quoting from man who have the taldmud and are stating what the taldmud said before christ.

there were jews before christ who looked for him and taught on that. that is what im saying. rashi is using simple the translations and simple historical fact and what happened in ad 70 and 165 ish.

the temple was holy ground to the jews and No sinning, uncleansed gentile could enter. that is what the aod is in part. its not a covenant of peace nor a man who makes one.
 
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