Futurism&TheTemple

[thightower]

because im quoting from man who have the taldmud and are stating what the taldmud said before christ.

there were jews before christ who looked for him and taught on that. that is what im saying. rashi is using simple the translations and simple historical fact and what happened in ad 70 and 165 ish.

the temple was holy ground to the jews and No sinning, uncleansed gentile could enter. that is what the aod is in part. its not a covenant of peace nor a man who makes one.

I understand why you use the rightings. Originally they are the word from the true living God to the nation of Israel, which is based in the old covenant. My point is when Jesus died on the cross, that event fullfilled the old covenant and established the new covenant. This is why I think the seventieth week hasn't happened yet, Daniel prophicied it, Jesus talked about it, and John wrote about it in Revelation. Right or wrong, if i am understanding our conversation, this is what our discusion is about.

 

[thightower]

Is a metaphor for the new kingdom of God: Christ's church.

If it is a metaphor, why in Revelation 21, Does it give acual measurements and building materials.

 

[Hitch]

If it is a metaphor, why in Revelation 21, Does it give acual measurements and building materials.

You're kidding right?

 

[thightower]

You're kidding right?

What is being measured? You can't measure a metaphor.

 

[jasoncran]

I understand why you use the rightings. Originally they are the word from the true living God to the nation of Israel, which is based in the old covenant. My point is when Jesus died on the cross, that event fullfilled the old covenant and established the new covenant. This is why I think the seventieth week hasn't happened yet, Daniel prophicied it, Jesus talked about it, and John wrote about it in Revelation. Right or wrong, if i am understanding our conversation, this is what our discusion is about.

the seventhieth has occured. that ended when the church went to the gentiles.

the problem for you that is very specefic. if it is then those alive will know when the Lord will come. that cant be.

 

[thightower]

My point to the 70th week is, if I'm not misreading the bible. Right after the 70th week Jesus returns to take his throne on this earth. That is why I don't believe the 70th week has happened yet.

 

[jasoncran]

My point to the 70th week is, if I'm not misreading the bible. Right after the 70th week Jesus returns to take his throne on this earth. That is why I don't believe the 70th week has happened yet.

hmm.

why would he do that? he reigns right now.

if theres no THRONE of grace what is there in heaven? anthromorphism.god doesnt sit on a literal throne. its a vision!!!!the problem with a local idea of a physical jesus is that we have to then come to him to worship thus violating his statement of how worship will be.

 

[thightower]

Matthew 24

29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

[Hitch]

My point to the 70th week is, if I'm not misreading the bible. Right after the 70th week Jesus returns to take his throne on this earth. That is why I don't believe the 70th week has happened yet.

Why would Jesus want a throne on earth?


Why did he tell us it is better for us that he not be on earth?

 

[jasoncran]

Matthew 24

29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

did you bother reading the signs that josephus mentions. the chariots one?

the statement of the end of it too annias wasnt a real person? jesus didnt mean that He would see him?

mark 14

60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

did you ever think that the church was gathered by messangers from those outside judea to tell them the war was over? it make sense to me.

i learned not read the bible as you do but as it says. i dont think you beleive this verse.

 

[thightower]

Why would Jesus want a throne on earth?


Why did he tell us it is better for us that he not be on earth?

question #1- To have the relationship with us in God's original plan.
question #2- Where does it say that, Why does the bible teach the 2nd coming, if that is true?

 

[thightower]

did you bother reading the signs that josephus mentions. the chariots one?

the statement of the end of it too annias wasnt a real person? jesus didnt mean that He would see him?

mark 14



did you ever think that the church was gathered by messangers from those outside judea to tell them the war was over? it make sense to me.

i learned not read the bible as you do but as it says. i dont think you beleive this verse.

And so is our impass, Josephus wrote of signs, Jesus talked of signs. Which one do you think I am going to follow?
I have learned through several speakers, that the bible is more literal that symbolic.

 

[jasoncran]

And so is our impass, Josephus wrote of signs, Jesus talked of signs. Which one do you think I am going to follow?
I have learned through several speakers, that the bible is more literal that symbolic.

josephus is quoted by many a futurist, that link has comments from a christian on it. and jospesphus saw the signs. our faith has evidence. if the bible said it happened and its recorded as such. it did happen.

literal so jesus is stone? so jesus is a rock? wow and i wonder why jews laugh and mock us over how we read their tanach. an eye for eye isnt literal its an expression. moses didnt talk face to face with god. he heard the voice and that is an idiom of how close God was to Moses but moses never saw YHWH's shape.

the man after god's own heart.isnt like our view of heart but in the hebrew culture the mind was (intellect) was in the heart. theres a ton of these in the bible. educate yourself.

 

[Hitch]

question #1- To have the relationship with us in God's original plan.

Are you saying the cross was not the 'original plan' ? Get something straight; The 'original plan' involved Messiah coming in the flesh to establish his kingdom. He did exactly that, but like the jews of old you prefer the pomp of a temporal regime over that which was prophecied and accomplished

question #2- Where does it say that, Why does the bible teach the 2nd coming, if that is true?

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


It is clear that your version of the Second Advent is but slightly related to the biblical. It is sad but such a view stems from a low value placed on the work of the cross. The reconciliation ,made possible through the cross, is accomplished in history while Christ is enthroned in heaven and the Holy Spirit ministers on earth. This is the system God personally set in place, therefor it is the best possible means by which to accomplish his goals.

 

[thightower]

josephus is quoted by many a futurist, that link has comments from a christian on it. and jospesphus saw the signs. our faith has evidence. if the bible said it happened and its recorded as such. it did happen.

literal so jesus is stone? so jesus is a rock? wow and i wonder why jews laugh and mock us over how we read their tanach. an eye for eye isnt literal its an expression. moses didnt talk face to face with god. he heard the voice and that is an idiom of how close God was to Moses but moses never saw YHWH's shape.

the man after god's own heart.isnt like our view of heart but in the hebrew culture the mind was (intellect) was in the heart. theres a ton of these in the bible. educate yourself.

Yes I do see the bible as more literal than symbolic. But you also have to use hermanutics when reading the word to know the diference. And yes I believe Moses saw God literaly.

 

[thightower]

Are you saying the cross was not the 'original plan' ? Get something straight; The 'original plan' involved Messiah coming in the flesh to establish his kingdom. He did exactly that, but like the jews of old you prefer the pomp of a temporal regime over that which was prophecied and accomplished

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


It is clear that your version of the Second Advent is but slightly related to the biblical. It is sad but such a view stems from a low value placed on the work of the cross.

Gods original plan was evedent at the end of the 6th day of creation, "And God said it is good". He knew we would sin against him, yet he created us anyway. He knew at the begining that Jesus would have to die on the cross to reconcile us back to him.
If Jesus didn't go the spirit couldn't come to earth.

 

[Stormcrow]

My point to the 70th week is, if I'm not misreading the bible. Right after the 70th week Jesus returns to take his throne on this earth. That is why I don't believe the 70th week has happened yet.

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm." John 18:36 (NASB)

Is Christ in His kingdom or is He not? If He is not, why do Christ, Peter, Paul, and the writer of Hebrews all say He is???

So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. Mark 16:19 (NASB)

And where did Christ receive His kingdom???

IN HEAVEN!

"I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14 (NASB)

Every one of the verses listed below speaks of Christ at the right hand of the Father, a position of ultimate authority and power from which He reigns:

Matthew 26:64, Mark 14:62, Mark 16:19, Luke 20:42-43, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33, Acts 5:30-31, Acts 7:55-56, Romans 8:34, Ephesians 1:19-23, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 8:1-2, Hebrews 10:11-13, Hebrews 12:2, 1 Peter 3:21-22

Please show us a single verse where Christ is said to leave this position after having regained it through the cross, so that He can rule His kingdom from earth.

 

[Hitch]

Are you saying the cross was not the 'original plan' ? Get something straight; The 'original plan' involved Messiah coming in the flesh to establish his kingdom. He did exactly that, but like the jews of old you prefer the pomp of a temporal regime over that which was prophecied and accomplished

Gods original plan was evedent at the end of the 6th day of creation, "And God said it is good". He knew we would sin against him, yet he created us anyway. He knew at the begining that Jesus would have to die on the cross to reconcile us back to him.
If Jesus didn't go the spirit couldn't come to earth.

And the Kingdom of God is defined as??

Christ seated in Jerusalem?

Or

Joy Peace and Righteousness in the Holy Ghost ?

 

[jasoncran]

Yes I do see the bible as more literal than symbolic. But you also have to use hermanutics when reading the word to know the diference. And yes I believe Moses saw God literaly.

then jesus wasnt wrong when john said"no man hath seen father nor his shape?"

so when will that verse stars in their courses come against the the new version of the enemies of isreal?
judges 5:20

They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera

i didnt know that we should look for them or what about the idea of the God wearing man as a shirt?

so the hebrews dont have figurative languages? yah might want to tell them that. which culture did God use to write the tanach? which language? why does jesus use a jewish wedding feast(still done today) to show how his return will be?

 

[JLB]

who said that all of it was fulfilled? Not me.

the Last day hasnt happened.

i counter question. are you saved Now or when your perfected and sinless?

Peter taught that the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning of your faith.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you...
1 Peter 1:6-10

Though presently we do not see Him, yet it is faith that causes us to rejoice with joy inexpressible, however it is the end of our faith that is the salvation of our souls.

JLB