GAP…theory…or…fact?

[gr8grace3]

This would have been reasonable: Your OP should have listed each point of you case for the 'Gap Theory' [with or w/o description], followed by a conclusion. If you had done that, I wouldn't have responded in the first place. Why? Because I would have seen a ridiculously extra-biblical conclusion . . . built upon several mis-interpretations of Scripture substantiated by conjecture.

Now I am the wiser for it; a little dizzy with your manner of argument and persistent self-substantiation, but wiser for it non-the-less.

Please Gregg, Why the insults? I have asked you serious questions and for your opinion. And these are type of answers I have seen from you.

You told me that I needed to seek out a pastor for "help" And offered me nothing from yourself for "help. IOW you just threw an insult At me and didn't even give me Brotherly advice of where I was wrong. Thanks.

We were created to resolve the Angelic conflict. Eph 3:9-10 is your purpose in this life and why you were created.

Eph 3:9-10 NASB~~9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

We are to reveal the multifaceted wisdom of God to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

Eph 6:12 NASB~~For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

We reveal His Grace,mercy,justice,righteousness,love,fairness through our relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, tell me as A brother in Christ were I am wrong and God did not create us for this purpose please.

 

[turnorburn]

Where is this headed? A race of humans before Adam?

tob

 

[FreeGrace]

This would have been reasonable: Your OP should have listed each point of you case for the 'Gap Theory' [with or w/o description], followed by a conclusion. If you had done that, I wouldn't have responded in the first place. Why? Because I would have seen a ridiculously extra-biblical conclusion . . . built upon several mis-interpretations of Scripture substantiated by conjecture.

Why won't you address the contradiction the YEC view creates from its understanding of Gen 1:2?

If there is no time gap, then Moses wrote that God created the earth "tohu wabohu". Yet, Isaiah wrote that "God didn't create the earth "tohu wabohu".

So, who's right? Moses, or Isaiah? The only way to avoid this contradiction is to admit that v.2 should be translated: "but the earth became "tohu wabohu". There is no other explanation.

So, your charge that my OP comes to "a ridiculously extra-biblical conclusion" is, well, ridiculous. I've stayed with exactly what Scripture SAYS. And I've proven that "was" has been translated "became" in 4 other verses, and the word for "and" can just as easily be translated as "but". And no one has refuted any of that.

Now I am the wiser for it; a little dizzy with your manner of argument and persistent self-substantiation, but wiser for it non-the-less.

I'm glad you are the wiser for it. Now that you are, can you explain the huge contradiction that YEC view creates by its understanding of Gen 1:2?

 

[FreeGrace]

http://creation.com/gap-theory-revisited

Not exactly. The link begins with this erroneous statement:

This feedback concerns gap theory, which tends to rely on a misunderstanding of the word ‘replenish’ the King James Version of Genesis 1:28, which originally meant ‘fill’.

I have demonstrated that 3 words in Gen 1:2 have been translated differently in other verses: was, w/o form, void.

I have further demonstrated that if there is no time gap and the typical translation of Gen 1:2 is correct, then there is a huge contradiction between Moses and Isaiah.

Why? Because the message of Gen 1:1-2 is "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth, and the earth WAS "tohu wabohu".

Yet, Isaiah said the exact opposite in 45:18 - "God did NOT create the earth "tohu wabohu".

So, I wonder who the YEC believe, and who they reject as right.

 

[FreeGrace]

Where is this headed? A race of humans before Adam?

tob

Anyone who tries that will be attempting to hi-jack this thread. This thread is about a time gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.

If there is no time gap, then Moses and Isaiah contradict each other. Because both spoke of creation and used the phrase "tohu wabohu" in reference to creation. Isaiah said that God did NOT create the earth "tohu wabohu", but if there is no time gap, then Moses wrote that God created the earth "tohu wabohu". And one of them would be wrong.

Which is impossible.

 

[jasonc]

Not exactly. The link begins with this erroneous statement:

This feedback concerns gap theory, which tends to rely on a misunderstanding of the word ‘replenish’ the King James Version of Genesis 1:28, which originally meant ‘fill’.

I have demonstrated that 3 words in Gen 1:2 have been translated differently in other verses: was, w/o form, void.

I have further demonstrated that if there is no time gap and the typical translation of Gen 1:2 is correct, then there is a huge contradiction between Moses and Isaiah.

Why? Because the message of Gen 1:1-2 is "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth, and the earth WAS "tohu wabohu".

Yet, Isaiah said the exact opposite in 45:18 - "God did NOT create the earth "tohu wabohu".

So, I wonder who the YEC believe, and who they reject as right.

so why do the majority of yec and also the jews don't see that?

surely they the jews know that isn't the case.so satan made the earth?

18 For thus said Jehovah, Creator of heaven, He is God, Former of earth, and its Maker, He established it -- not empty He prepared it, For inhabiting He formed it: `I [am] Jehovah, and there is none else

ylt.

so you would agree to this rendering. for in six days god created the heavens and reterraformed the earth.

your words did imply that.

that literal rendering said he made the earth. and yet you don't say that?

satan can make things?

 

[jasonc]

Anyone who tries that will be attempting to hi-jack this thread. This thread is about a time gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.

If there is no time gap, then Moses and Isaiah contradict each other. Because both spoke of creation and used the phrase "tohu wabohu" in reference to creation. Isaiah said that God did NOT create the earth "tohu wabohu", but if there is no time gap, then Moses wrote that God created the earth "tohu wabohu". And one of them would be wrong.

Which is impossible.

so satan made the earth? what made the earth then? satan, a fallen angel or did god just stumble upon it.

 

[Sinthesis]

Gregg, I hope I do not come across to you like this. I don't see FreeGrace as coming off like that either.

I just want a discussion. So could you please explain how there is no contradiction in the verses being discussed. I just want your point of view on those scriptures, not just a comment on what or how someone else "says" something. Explain how there is no contradiction in Gen 1:2 and Isa 45:18.

This is what I interpret you are teaching, correct me if I am wrong,please. Genesis 1:1-2 God created the earth and it was "tohu wabohu".

Then we have Isaiah say God did not create the earth "tohu wabohu".

I see a contradiction. Can you show me how there is not a contradiction please? I am Sorry, but I have seen no one just explain it, straight and simple.

There is no contradiction in Gen 1:2 and Isa 45:18 provided we understand Gen 1 describes a sequential process spread over a week (literal or symbolic) resulting in a heaven and earth appropriate for life. If God has stopped just after the initial moment of Gen 1:1, rather than after the sixth day, His work would have been in vain because it would not have had all the forming, making, and establishing referred to in Isa 45:18, in addition to the initial creative act of Gen 1:1.


Consider the Potter who desires a clay pot. First He must have a lump of clay (Gen1:1 - Something from nothing). Stop there and this creative miracle would be in vain. Instead He spends the rest of the creation week forming, making, and establishing the heavenly and the earthly characteristics of the pot until they are suitable for His purposes. After the sixth day, when He has finished a very good pot, He ends His work and takes the seventh day off (Gen 1:2 - 2:3).

 

[jasonc]

There is no contradiction in Gen 1:2 and Isa 45:18 provided we understand Gen 1 describes a sequential process spread over a week (literal or symbolic) resulting in a heaven and earth appropriate for life. If God has stopped just after the initial moment of Gen 1:1, rather than after the sixth day, His work would have been in vain because it would not have had all the forming, making, and establishing referred to in Isa 45:18, in addition to the initial creative act of Gen 1:1.


Consider the Potter who desires a clay pot. First He must have a lump of clay (Gen1:1 - Something from nothing). Stop there and this creative miracle would be in vain. Instead He spends the rest of the creation week forming, making, and establishing the heavenly and the earthly characteristics of the pot until they are suitable for His purposes. After the sixth day, when He has finished a very good pot, He ends His work and takes the seventh day off (Gen 1:2 - 2:3).

the irony is that the poster is a theistic evolutionist. good post

 

[gr8grace3]

the irony is that the poster is a theistic evolutionist. good post

That better not refer to me my friend.

 

[jasonc]

That better not refer to me my friend.

synthesis is a theistic evolutionist. I am not but I have learned that none of this is salvinical but about poor exegesis.
to assume that one must be yec or gap theorist to be saved is where in the bible?

do I agree with theistic evolution?NO, but well I see futurism in the same class. taking words out of context to make a doctrine. I understand why both sides do it. but well its all about exegisis.

 

[gr8grace3]

There is no contradiction in Gen 1:2 and Isa 45:18 provided we understand Gen 1 describes a sequential process spread over a week (literal or symbolic) resulting in a heaven and earth appropriate for life. If God has stopped just after the initial moment of Gen 1:1, rather than after the sixth day, His work would have been in vain because it would not have had all the forming, making, and establishing referred to in Isa 45:18, in addition to the initial creative act of Gen 1:1.


Consider the Potter who desires a clay pot. First He must have a lump of clay (Gen1:1 - Something from nothing). Stop there and this creative miracle would be in vain. Instead He spends the rest of the creation week forming, making, and establishing the heavenly and the earthly characteristics of the pot until they are suitable for His purposes. After the sixth day, when He has finished a very good pot, He ends His work and takes the seventh day off (Gen 1:2 - 2:3).

So, your whole answer is " provided by we understand Gen 1 describes a Sequential process." Gen 1:1-2 and Isa 45:18 is not a sequential Process. He Baras( creates) it.

Consider a potter, who desires a clay pot. He has to have clay,He has to spend time and effort to create a pot.

Consider God, He desires a pot, He makes a pot. He doesn't have to have Clay.

 

[jasonc]

Yes, but the Lord didn't poof the earth into being.

he made the earth from the water like substance.

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes, but the Lord didn't poof the earth into being.

he made the earth from the water like substance.

I believe He spoke it, and It was so and It was done Perfectly in an instant.

But, even with your water.......Did nothing turn into something over a period of time? Or was there no water and at a point in time there was water...poof?

 

[jasonc]

I believe He spoke it, and It was so and It was done Perfectly in an instant.

But, even with your water.......Did nothing turn into something over a period of time? Or was there no water and at a point in time there was water...poof?

the bible doesn't say the earth was spoken into being. just that god separated the land from the water and the water from the other waters and formed the heavens.

StoveBolts , post what ramban has to say on this.

 

[stovebolts]

the bible doesn't say the earth was spoken into being. just that god separated the land from the water and the water from the other waters and formed the heavens.

StoveBolts , post what ramban has to say on this.

I did... Look back a few pages. He dismissed it as not being relevant. I'm not going to waste my time to transcribe the rest.

 

[jasonc]

I did... Look back a few pages. He dismissed it as not being relevant. I'm not going to waste my time to transcribe the rest.

ok. did you post the whole Hebraic view on the tohu?

 

[stovebolts]

ok. did you post the whole Hebraic view on the tohu?

Yes. Wade through, or just search this thread. I don't think he understood it. People who think like Greeks can't understand the Hebrew way of thinking.

A Greek looks at a door as a noun. A Hebrew looks at a door as a verb. Its not what it is, it is what it does. And what it does, is what it is.

 

[jasonc]

Yes. Wade through, or just search this thread. I don't think he understood it. People who think like Greeks can't understand the Hebrew way of thinking.

A Greek looks at a door as a noun. A Hebrew looks at a door as a verb. Its not what it is, it is what it does. And what it does, is what it is.

oh, im having that problem over sheol and hades.

 

[jasonc]

Yes. Wade through, or just search this thread. I don't think he understood it. People who think like Greeks can't understand the Hebrew way of thinking.

A Greek looks at a door as a noun. A Hebrew looks at a door as a verb. Its not what it is, it is what it does. And what it does, is what it is.

yes post 117.

ov vey,