Giving up

[MarkT]

I think this question, whether our salvation can be lost, is a strange one to my ears. The reason is because I do not know what my future status will be in the end. My mindset is that I was saved in the past - I was healed, made a new creation, etc. But none of that guarantees that I will continue to grow in Christ. The Scripture presumes that one WOULD CONTINUE to remain in Christ, something that presumes a positive response to God's grace. God doesn't force anyone to grow in holiness.

Paul says "all was as dung" when refering to his past life. To him, it was realizing that he thought you had a full life in the Law, but only a "thimble-size" portion was full, while now in Christ, he had a "gallon-size" portion. With this realization, Paul asks hypothetically - presuming no one would respond in the negative - "Isn't our life in Christ better? Thus, we continue in Christ". Paul, based on his own experience in Christ, doesn't see how a person would WANT to return to their former lives. However, Paul realizes later that people DO INDEED return. Peter also realizes that people return to the "vomit" of their past lives. Thus, the presumption is that all who are saved, healed, will remain in Christ, but practically speaking, this is not true. Thus, Scriptures relate the fact that man continues to be able to reject the Holy Spirit even after first receiving it.

Another reason why I wonder about "OSAS" is that it contradicts WHO God is and what He desires to do regarding mankind. One of the primary teachings of Christianity is that God desires to share of Himself with us. LOVE, the definition of it, is a sharing of self. The Blessed Trinity IS Love itself. The Father shares Himself entirely with the Son and vice versus. This Love is called the Holy Spirit. Knowing this about God, how can we then believe that God will not continue this towards us as well? God desires us to share of OURSELVES with Him. How can we enter into communion with God eternally if we do not want to share of ourselves??? This sharing will be done in God's NOW, in eternity. Thus, if we die in a state of disunity with God, with NOT desiring to share of ourselves, where will we fit into this eternal self-sharing with God? God does not force us to share of ourselves. He guides us, graces us to do it, but in the end, WE will be judged on our response to God. God will not be judged because He didn't force us to obey His commandments!!!

With all of this in mind, OSAS is inconceivable to the Scriptures and what we have learned about who God is and what He wants to do with mankind. All the Scriptures that discuss God not letting the elect to falter is merely a way of showing us that it is God who guides those who do positively respond. It is as if we are in the future looking at our past life. We will realize that God indeed was the reason for our salvation throughout our lives. But today, we don't know we are now in the Book of Life.

God died for ALL men and desires ALL men to be saved. Thus, we must believe that God ALSO graces all men to be saved. The bottom line is that all men are not saved. Those that are saved are saved as a result of a positive response to God's gifts. We cannot claim we saved ourselves because the gifts are FROM God, not ourselves. But our response, just the same, is part of the requirements on being saved. And this salvation is an ongoing effort, a continuous acceptance of God's gifts, as nothing else matters but faith working in love.

You're saying God is your Father and yet you don't know your Father? If God is your Father and you are his son, then you are loved and you have his promise. Isn't that enough?

 

[francisdesales]

You're saying God is your Father and yet you don't know your Father? If God is your Father and you are his son, then you are loved and you have his promise. Isn't that enough?

No, I am not saying that. I am saying that I do not know if I will disown my Father in the end. Despite the promise, I can still reject God. I think the chances are low that this would happen in the future, but I cannot presume that I will not, since I have free will and can grieve the Holy Spirit.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Re: reply

Fran. Did Jesus die for our future sins? The Word says we are forgiven, right? Therefore, every sin that will ever be forgiven, has to be a future sin. If we do sin after we have been saved, it is a past sin. Therefore, we are forgiven of our past, present, and future sins. You see, our salvation was completed at the cross.

Jesus died for sins that will be repented of by mankind. Those sins that are not repented of will not be forgiven. The Word says we are forgiven when we forgive those who trespass against us, as well. I do not believe that our future sins are automatically forgiven. The forgiveness is available because of what Christ did. He doesn't have to come back and die again for anything that I do now. However, to be forgiven, I must repent of my sin after I commit it.

Forgiveness is freely offered to those who ask of it. If I don't ask for forgiveness, it is not given. Thus, ALL men are NOT saved, Golfjack. God died for the sins of ALL men - but ALL men are not saved because all men do not ask for forgiveness that has been offered.

Regards

 

[MarkT]

No, I am not saying that. I am saying that I do not know if I will disown my Father in the end. Despite the promise, I can still reject God. I think the chances are low that this would happen in the future, but I cannot presume that I will not, since I have free will and can grieve the Holy Spirit.

You can't disown God. God isn't your servant. Do you decide and then God goes along with your decision? You don't know God. Name me one thing you have that doesn't belong to God. That thing will be rooted up and thrown into the fire!

You are either of God or you're not. God is your Father or he isn't. How do we know God is our Father? Jesus said so!

Men can reject his words. You have freewill. Ok That's like telling God you can't be trusted. Imagine if Adam had said he had freewill to God. Are you trying to provoke God?

God knows you have freewill. In fact without freewill men would not fall into the snare. They would not condemn themselves with their lips. What do you think God is feeling when you say, "I can reject you."

See, the difference between you and Cyber is Cyber is showing faith. He knows he is saved because his heart is wise and he speaks what is right. He is established in the truth, so to speak, as Peter wrote, "I intend always to remind you of these things, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have", writing, as he did, to those who have 'obtained a faith of equal standing with our own'. 2 Peter 1:12

He is faithful in a little and God has given him knowledge and understanding.

Your works are what you put into effect by your words. Do you believe you will be saved? If you do then that's faith!

Jesus said, "As I hear, I judge." What will he say to you when you say you don't know whether you are saved? He will say, "Neither do I know you!"

Believe that you are saved francis! I say that to build your faith. If God is your Father, then you come from God, then Jesus will not say, 'I do not know where you come from.' Luke 13:25-27

 

[DISconect2]

First of all I would like to say this discussion has my wheels spinning which is a good thing. I would like to offer my own life up for discussion for a moment as I am confused on all of the different views on this thread.

First I am or was saved depending on the interpretation of OSAS or not OSAS, and forgive me I have a hard time getting my words from the head to the thread.

May 16th 1998 I hit a bottom with alcohol and everything I had done wrong in my drinking career came crashing down onto my head. Well I went through rehab. Got sober and started my life again with Jesus.

I did fine stayed sober until 2003, but in 2003 went to see a Physician about my migraines and he put me on a drug called Butalbtal and I became addicted to it. So addicted I started abusing it and ordering it off of the internet.

In April 2006 I had a motorcycle accident and was in the hospital, they did a full blood test and found that my liver enzymes were extremely high. I have not taken these meds since. Although a couple of months I slipped back into alcohol and I know I can not get back into this cycle because I know exactly where it leads.

The thing that accompanies this addiction cycle is unfaithfulness, lies, deceit; I basically rip through people's life like a tornado. I do not mean to make my past sound so generic, but most of this I need to go to God with.

Now I am not asking anyone to pronounce I am saved or not saved as this would not be fair to you. But as far as the debate goes I would like to see where I would stand in your doctrines.


Thank You
Lou

 

[stranger]

First of all I would like to say this discussion has my wheels spinning which is a good thing. I would like to offer my own life up for discussion for a moment as I am confused on all of the different views on this thread.

First I am or was saved depending on the interpretation of OSAS or not OSAS, and forgive me I have a hard time getting my words from the head to the thread.

May 16th 1998 I hit a bottom with alcohol and everything I had done wrong in my drinking career came crashing down onto my head. Well I went through rehab. Got sober and started my life again with Jesus.

I did fine stayed sober until 2003, but in 2003 went to see a Physician about my migraines and he put me on a drug called Butalbtal and I became addicted to it. So addicted I started abusing it and ordering it off of the internet.

In April 2006 I had a motorcycle accident and was in the hospital, they did a full blood test and found that my liver enzymes were extremely high. I have not taken these meds since. Although a couple of months I slipped back into alcohol and I know I can not get back into this cycle because I know exactly where it leads.

The thing that accompanies this addiction cycle is unfaithfulness, lies, deceit; I basically rip through people's life like a tornado. I do not mean to make my past sound so generic, but most of this I need to go to God with.

Now I am not asking anyone to pronounce I am saved or not saved as this would not be fair to you. But as far as the debate goes I would like to see where I would stand in your doctrines.


Thank You
Lou

Hi Lou,

If I may say so you stand in our midst. As far as the doctrines go I can assure you that each of us - in our own way - whether consciously or not -are trying to work out our salvation in 'fear and trembling'. Walk with us and may Christ Himself walk with you.

In Christ: stranger

 

[DISconect2]

thank you stranger

 

[francisdesales]

You can't disown God. God isn't your servant. Do you decide and then God goes along with your decision? You don't know God. Name me one thing you have that doesn't belong to God. That thing will be rooted up and thrown into the fire!

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. Hosea 4:6

Thus saith the whole congregation of the LORD, What trespass [is] this that ye have committed against the God of Israel, to turn away this day from following the LORD, in that ye have builded you an altar, that ye might rebel this day against the LORD? Joshua 22:16

God forbid that we should rebel against the LORD, and turn this day from following the LORD, to build an altar for burnt offerings, for meat offerings, or for sacrifices, beside the altar of the LORD our God that [is] before his tabernacle. Joshua 22:29

Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. Acts 13:46

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Ez 18:30


Apparently, the Scriptures say we can and DO disown God by our rejection of His commandments. The offer to repent is always there for us, but we certainly can bring about our own ruin by refusing to follow God. Whether I know God or not is not something you are in a position to judge.

You are either of God or you're not. God is your Father or he isn't. How do we know God is our Father? Jesus said so!

That doesn't mean we will follow God throughout our whole lives. The Jews were also "of God", but many fell to their ruin. We, like the prodigal son, can reject our father and walk away. Did the father command the son to return home? No.

Men can reject his words. You have freewill. Ok That's like telling God you can't be trusted. Imagine if Adam had said he had freewill to God. Are you trying to provoke God?

It is beginning to sound like you think God causes us to sin... Adam DID have free will - and he choose to disobey God. Do you think God caused Adam to sin?

God knows you have freewill. In fact without freewill men would not fall into the snare. They would not condemn themselves with their lips. What do you think God is feeling when you say, "I can reject you."

Without free will, man could not love, either. God desires to draw us into His Love that He shares within Himself in the Trinity. How can we be drawn into that self-giving love without free will love from ourselves?

See, the difference between you and Cyber is Cyber is showing faith. He knows he is saved because his heart is wise and he speaks what is right. He is established in the truth, so to speak, as Peter wrote, "I intend always to remind you of these things, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have", writing, as he did, to those who have 'obtained a faith of equal standing with our own'. 2 Peter 1:12

I cannot make any judgment about Cyber's faith. Naturally, in your eyes, I have little faith because I don't agree with your point of view on God. Fortunately for me, you are not going to judge me, God is.

Your works are what you put into effect by your words. Do you believe you will be saved? If you do then that's faith!

I believe if I persevere, I will be saved. Can I know I will persevere? Can anyone? You are kidding yourself if you think you cannot fall.

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 1 Cor 10:11-12

I approach the Lord humbly, knowing I do not deserve salvation. You approach the Lord thinking He owes you salvation - because you speak as if you have it already no matter how you sin in the future or how you may disown Him in the future. You think because you are a child of God, God owes you something? Is that true? Has not God refused salvation to MANY of His children in the Old Testament? Why did He do so?

Believe that you are saved francis! I say that to build your faith. If God is your Father, then you come from God, then Jesus will not say, 'I do not know where you come from.' Luke 13:25-27

I believe that IF I persevere until the end, I will enter Heaven. I have been saved from my sins - and as long as I repent from my recent sins or future sins, I will, in the end, be saved for heaven. We do not know we are of the elect until we look back upon our life from heaven and see how we accepted God into our lives. Scripture clearly relates Christians who thought they were saved being disinherited from the Kingdom.

Regards

 

[MarkT]

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. Hosea 4:6

Thus saith the whole congregation of the LORD, What trespass [is] this that ye have committed against the God of Israel, to turn away this day from following the LORD, in that ye have builded you an altar, that ye might rebel this day against the LORD? Joshua 22:16

God forbid that we should rebel against the LORD, and turn this day from following the LORD, to build an altar for burnt offerings, for meat offerings, or for sacrifices, beside the altar of the LORD our God that [is] before his tabernacle. Joshua 22:29

Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. Acts 13:46

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Ez 18:30


Apparently, the Scriptures say we can and DO disown God by our rejection of His commandments. The offer to repent is always there for us, but we certainly can bring about our own ruin by refusing to follow God. Whether I know God or not is not something you are in a position to judge.

The Scriptures say they are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. That's true. Do we lack knowledge? No. God gives us the knowledge of God. How do I know that? Jesus said so! 'Ask and it will be given you; seek and you will find; knock and it will be opened." Matthew 7:7

Do we reject the knowledge of God? No! We store up the words like a treasure in our heart. We make our ear attentive to wisdom and incline our heart to understanding. Pr. 2:1

Jesus taught us how to pray. I pray the LORD's prayer and I forgive men their trespasses knowing our Father will forgive me.

 

[MarkT]

That doesn't mean we will follow God throughout our whole lives. The Jews were also "of God", but many fell to their ruin. We, like the prodigal son, can reject our father and walk away. Did the father command the son to return home? No.

We like the prodigal son have returned to our Father. Do we now walk away again? No!

 

[francisdesales]

The Scriptures say they are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. That's true. Do we lack knowledge? No. God gives us the knowledge of God. How do I know that? Jesus said so! 'Ask and it will be given you; seek and you will find; knock and it will be opened." Matthew 7:7

I think there has to be a utilization of this knowledge, because knowledge by itself puffs up... If it doesn't lead to love of neighbor, it isn't useful knowledge.

Jesus taught us how to pray. I pray the LORD's prayer and I forgive men their trespasses knowing our Father will forgive me.

Then you are on the right path and I hope that you remain there.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

We like the prodigal son have returned to our Father. Do we now walk away again? No!

I had thought that Protestant theology stated that we were not part of God's children to begin with. It is only our being born again that brings us into the family. Thus, we haven't "walked away" yet - although the potential is there.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Hebrews 10:26-27

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:20-22

Do we walk away? It can happen. Note, a person can receive knowledge of Christ, but return to their past life, continued to sin, making their 'salvtion' null and void... Knowledge itself doesn't save - "knowledge puffs up, but LOVE builds up..." (1 Cor 8:1)

Regards

 

[MarkT]

It is beginning to sound like you think God causes us to sin... Adam DID have free will - and he choose to disobey God. Do you think God caused Adam to sin?

I think God allowed it to happen and I think God knew it would happen. I just don't think he told the ancient Israelites everything because he knew they would betray him.

But the question is what kind of spirit argues for freewill? Saying you can reject God is tempting God to do something about it. Do you believe it is the Spirit of your Father speaking through you?

 

[destiny]

I had thought that Protestant theology stated that we were not part of God's children to begin with. It is only our being born again that brings us into the family. Thus, we haven't "walked away" yet - although the potential is there.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Hebrews 10:26-27

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:20-22

Do we walk away? It can happen. Note, a person can receive knowledge of Christ, but return to their past life, continued to sin, making their 'salvtion' null and void... Knowledge itself doesn't save - "knowledge puffs up, but LOVE builds up..." (1 Cor 8:1)

Regards

I say 'amen' to the things you've written here, 'fran'. As far as I can see you are only relaying the literal word of God.

 

[francisdesales]

I think God allowed it to happen and I think God knew it would happen. I just don't think he told the ancient Israelites everything because he knew they would betray him.

Mark,

I agree, God certainly knew what would happened - and I contend that something better came as a result of Adam's sin because of God's Providence - Our Lord and Savior. Adam's sin gave God the most perfect opportunity to display His Love for all of mankind, wouldn't you agree?

And it is certainly Scriptural that the Israelites were not told everything about God's saving plan. One only needs to consider the typical Jewish reaction to the Gospel. It didn't fit into their plans of a Messiah, and thus, Jesus was a stumbling block for them. Scripture also mentions the gradual revelation that was part of God's plan to INCLUDE the Gentiles, thus, making the People of God catholic, (universal) not just Jewish.

But before the faith came, we were kept under the law shut up, unto that faith which was to be revealed. Wherefore the law was our pedagogue in Christ, that we might be justified by faith Gal 3:23-24

As you reading, may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ, Which in other generations was not known to the sons of men, as it is now revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit: That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and co-partners of his promise in Christ Jesus, by the gospel. Eph 3:4-6

And of course, who could forget the opening of Hebrews?

God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners, spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all, In these days hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world. Heb 1:1-2

But the question is what kind of spirit argues for freewill? Saying you can reject God is tempting God to do something about it. Do you believe it is the Spirit of your Father speaking through you?

That depends if you think God has something to prove by overriding our will that HE gave us - OR if you believe that God gave us free will so as to love Him. It depends on your view of God, Mark.

I believe the latter - that God loves us and even condescends to "await" our decision to respond to Him. He gives us the means and grace to turn to Him. But in the end, God desires a response of Love to Him just as He presents the initiative and offers Love to us.

What sort of God would be born in a manger as an infant, Mark, if it wasn't a God of humility who awaited mankind to choose or reject Him?

If you believe the former, that God is envious or that God feels the need to force His will on mankind, then I suppose I can understand why one would feel man has no free will and cannot reject God. Basically, it sounds like you are saying that God must force us to love Him, sort of like the neighborhood bully must force those of lesser constitution to like him.

That is not my idea of love, brother. God "risks" that we will turn to Him with the possibility that we will not in the end.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I say 'amen' to the things you've written here, 'fran'. As far as I can see you are only relaying the literal word of God.

Glad you found my post useful to you. I hope I continue to present God's Word in this manner.

Regards

 

[Oscar3]

How to be
Absolutely Certain
you’re going to
Heaven…
10 minutes of Good News reading that will change your life
FOREVER!
How to be
Absolutely Certain
you’re going to Heaven
10 minutes of Good News reading that will change your life
FOREVER!
The “Good News†is that there is a God who wants to give you a better life here and
now, plus, life everlasting!
Amazingly, about 70% of the people in the United States, when asked
“If you were to die today, do you know
for certain you would go to Heaven?â€Â
answer with “I’m not sure †or worse, “No, I’m not going to Heaven â€Â.
How would YOU answer this question about going to Heaven?
God wants you to know for certain whether or not you have eternal life. How can you
know? Because you have it in writing from God ~ in His Word.
“And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in His
Son. So whoever has God’s Son has life; whoever does not have His Son does not have
life. I write this to you who believe in the Son of God, so that you may know you have
eternal life.†1 John 5:11-13, NLT
God LOVES You! He really does!!! You’re very important to Him! In fact, you have
His very own IMAGE! (Genesis 1:27) He wants you to live a F FFUULLLL life in peace with Him
and to receive eternal life. (John 10:10, Luke 22:31). And what does God think of Satan ~ the
father of LIES whose mission is to kill, steal, and destroy you, tricking you into Hell?
(John 10:10, Luke 22:31) God HATES him! He really does!!! (Matthew 13:39) God hates him so
bad, and loves you so much, He subjected Himself to sheer, unbearable torture just to
win you back. He’s a hero’s hero, the Real Deal. Read on, my friend, and I’ll see YOU in
Heaven…
The following are four practical Steps to Peace with God. They’re in the Bible, and
they’re public domain, so feel free to copy them and share them with a friend or loved
one.
These simple steps are also the exact same ones used by Dr. Billy Graham. Now that
guy KNOWS about helping folks get into Heaven!
Step 1 ~ God’s Purpose: Peace & Eternal Life
Perhaps you’ve seen the now famous John 3:16 sign. What this Bible verse says is: “For
God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him
shall not perish but have eternal life.â€Â
A little after that, we read:
“…we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.â€Â
Romans 5:1
and then…
“…the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.â€Â
Romans 6:23b
Since God planned for us to be at peace with Him and to have eternal life, why are many
people NOT enjoying this experience?
Step 2 ~ Our Problem: Sin & Separation
God did not make us robots to mindlessly love and obey Him. Instead, He gave us a will
and freedom of choice.
But, like Adam, we often choose to disobey God and go our own selfish ways (read
Genesis chapters 2-3). This side of our nature is called sin, and it separates us from God.
The Bible Says…
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…the wages of sin is death.â€Â
Romans 3:23; 6:23
“So (after Adam sinned) the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden….â€Â
Genesis 3:23a
“But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His
face from you, so that He will not hear.â€Â
Isaiah 59:2
Our sin separates us from God.
Step 3 ~ God’s Remedy: The Cross
Jesus Christ is the only answer to this problem of separation from God. He died on the
cross and rose from the grave to pay the penalty for our sin-completely bridging the gap
between us and God.
The Bible Says:
“ But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ
died for us.†Romans 5:8
“Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name
under Heaven given to men by which we must be saved.†Acts 4:12
“…God is on one side and all the people on the other side, and Christ Jesus, Himself
man, is between them to bring them together…†1 Timothy 2:5 (TLB)
“I tell you the truth, whoever hears My word (Jesus) and believes Him who sent Me has
eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.†John 5:24
Time out! Won’t my good works get me to Heaven, somehow outweighing the bad?
Good question. Unfortunately, even “…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags â€Â.
Isaiah 64:6
“You can’t buy your way to Heaven. All the good things you do in your whole life
wouldn’t get you one minute into Heaven.†-Billy Graham
Instead, we must trust what Christ has “Doneâ€Â, not what we can “doâ€Â.
“Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with
God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us. Because of our faith, Christ
has brought us into this place of highest privilege where we now stand, and we
confidently and joyfully look forward to sharing God’s glory.†Romans 5:1, 2 NLT
God has provided the only way…and we must make the choice…
Step 4 ~ Our Response: Receive Christ
We can receive Jesus Christ when we believe in His message and trust in Him alone to
save us.
The Bible Says…
“All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives
forgiveness of sins through His name.†Acts 10:43
“(Jesus said) Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in Me.â€Â
John 14:1
“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God,
even to those who believe in His name.â€Â
John 1:12
Are you here…
…or here?
People God
Anxiety Peace
Sin Forgiveness
Separation _____C H R I S T_____ Relationship
Eternal Eternal
Torment (Ouch!) Life (Ahhhhh…)
How to receive Christ:
1. Admit your need (I am a sinner). Say it! Mean it! It’s true!
2. Be willing to turn from your sins (repent). Want to stop – that’s enough to start!
3. Believe that Jesus Christ died for you on the cross and rose from the grave.
He did! Over 500 eyewitnesses saw Him after He rose. (1 Corinthians 15:6)
History verifies His life, death, and resurrection.
4. Invite Jesus Christ to come in and control your life through the Holy Spirit.
(Receive Jesus as your Savior). The Holy Spirit is the gift of God when you accept
Christ. The Holy Spirit brings you the power to stop sinning and live a life pleasing to
God.
Whatt tto pray ~
You may use your own words or
say this suggested prayer:
Oh God,
I am a sinner. I’m sorry for my sin.
I’m willing to turn from my sin, and follow You instead,
but I need your help. I believe Jesus died and rose again to pay the
penalty for my sin. I receive Christ into my heart by faith. Fill me
with your Holy Spirit, Jesus. I want you to be Lord of my life,
from this moment on. In Jesus’ name.
Amen.
God’s Assurance:
You have His Word on it.
If you sincerely prayed this prayer and asked Jesus Christ to come into your life, do you
know what He has given you?
The Bible Says…
“Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.†Romans 10:13
“Neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us
from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.â€Â
Romans 8:39
“He who has the Son has Life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you
may know that you have eternal life…â€Â
1 John 5:12-13, NKJV
“…if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,†and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe
and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.â€Â
Romans 10:9,10
“ Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set His
seal of ownership on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing
what is to come.†2 Corinthians 1:21,22
Your New Life:
“When you receive Christ, you are born into God’s family through the supernatural
work of the Holy Spirit, who indwells every believer…this is called regeneration or
‘new birth.’ God Bless you as you begin your wonderful new life in Christ.â€Â
~Billy Graham
Yahoooooooooooooooo!!! You’re in the family
now! I can’t wait to meet you- here or in Heaven! Are you aware of the huge party you
just set off in Heaven? They’re more excited over your simple decision today than over
ninety-nine already righteous people who did not need to do what you just did! I suggest
you tell someone you received Christ and write down today’s date.
Happy New Birthday!
~Greg Swan, Rhinosoft Interactive - Your host today!
“ I tell you …there will be more rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents than
over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.â€Â
~Jesus Christ (Luke 15:7)
________________________________________________
Epilogue…or is it just the beginning?…What’s next?
Surprise! No, we don’t want your money. And no, we’re not going to tell you where to go
to church or how to cut your hair or what brand of spring water to drink.
Friend- You’re a saint now. Reading any further will NOT change the fact YOU
ARE NOW GOING TO HEAVEN FOR SURE! We’re talking Done Deal!
Still reading? Boy, you must really be excited! I don’t blame you! Here are some
answers for questions you may have (along with even more assurances) that will help you
right now UNTIL you arrive in Heaven:
Should I go to a church?
Oh yeah.
“Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us
encourage one another- and all the more as you see the day approaching.†Hebrews 10:25
I recommended you look up a Bible believing church, perhaps one close to your home.
(Check the yellow pages!) It will be full of imperfect believers, which is a great place to
start. (Imperfect to us, maybe, but not imperfect in God’s eyes: “…by one sacrifice-His
crucifixion- He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Hebrews 10:14)
Perhaps you’ll be shy about going into a church. That’s a good sign! Satan doesn’t want
you to go. Go anyway. “Just do it.†(Nike® 1:01)*……*Not in the Bible- recent American Pop Culture phrase
Should I read a Bible?
Yep.
“If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be
given you. This is to My Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to
be My disciples…apart from Me you can do nothing.†John 15:7, 8, 5b
Which Bible should I read?
Some different translations that are helpful are: New Living Translation, New
International Version, New King James Version, New American Standard Bible, The
Living Bible, The One Year Bible, The Message, etc.
Where can I get a Bible?
Almost any bookstore will have several to choose from (It’s the best selling book of all
time- and for good reason!) and certainly any Christian bookstore will have any number
of modern, understandable versions. Mass retailers also carry many versions. In the
United States, for instance, even Wal-Mart and K-Mart carry many translations. You can
even read the Bible for FREE on line at Gospelcom.net (look under Bible
Gateway on the right hand side of the home page). You may also get more help there on
how to grow in your relationship with Christ from any of over 100 non-profit ministries.
Will I be able to understand the Bible and apply it to my life?
Yes! “…the Spirit of truth…will guide YOU into all truth.†John 16:12
What about talking with God ( prayer ) ~ does He even hear me, I mean, c’mon,
really?
Absolutely!
“And we can be confident that He will listen to us whenever we ask Him for anything in
line with His will. And if we know He is listening when we make our requests, we can be
sure that He will give us what we ask for.†1 John 5:14,15
What if I don’t feel any different?
If you or someone you know is married, consider this analogy: When two people know of
each other, like you may have known of or about Christ, are they married? Nope.
If they date and have a long courtship and even get engaged, having the strongest human
emotions for each other, like you may have had a strong emotional experience that you
thought brought you closer to God, does that make them married? No again.
When are you married? You’re married when you say “I doâ€Â.
Verses
Today you said “I do†to Jesus Christ. It was an act of your will. Feelings can be fickle,
so don’t worry another second if you don’t feel different. In fact, never worry again -
and that’s an order!…
“Do not worry, saying, `What shall we eat?' or `What shall we drink?' or `What shall we
wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you
need them. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be
given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry
about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.†Matthew 6:31-34
Nice marriage example, but since so many people seem to get divorced, what if Christ
decides to divorce me?
Impossible- He says so right in His Word:
“God has said, ‘Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.’ †Hebrews 13:5
“If we are unfaithful,
He remains faithful,
for He cannot deny Himself.†2 Timothy 2:13 NLT
Once you receive Christ, that’s it, even if you make a mistake and “are unfaithfulâ€Â, He
“remains faithfulâ€Â. Friend, that’s love!
You don’t know me. I’ve actually done some things that may be unforgivable.
“Come now, let us reason together,†says the LORD. “Though your sins are llliiikkkeee ssscccaaarrrllleeettt,
they shall be as white as snow; though they are rrreeeddd aaasss cccrrriiimsssooonnn, they shall be like wool.â€Â
Isaiah 1:18
“I (Your Father in Heaven) forgive your sins - every one…as far as sunrise is from
sunset, I have separated you from your sins.†Psalm 103: 4,12 The Message (First person)
“This is a true saying, and everyone should believe it: Christ Jesus came into the world to
SAVE sinnersâ€â€and I (The Apostle Paul- who used to help mmu uur rrd dde eer rr Christians) was the
worst of them all. But that is why God had mercy on me, so that Christ Jesus could use
me as a prime example of His great patience with even the worst sinners. Then others
will realize that they, too, can believe in Him and receive eternal life.†1 Timothy 15,16 NLT
Now that I’m certain I’m going to Heaven, does that mean I will never sin again?
As you grow in your faith, you may have “growing pains†and commit sin. Now if you
sin, you can tell the Lord about it- He’ll forgive you and cleanse you- He promises!:
“But if we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us
from every wrong.†1 John 1:9
Friend, the Christian journey is a great, life-long adventure! Challenges will come,
but take heart: “…the One who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.â€Â
1 John 4:4
“I can do everything with the help of Christ who gives me the strength I need.†Philippians
4:13 NLT
You will be amazed at how much you will now understand of what the Bible says
directly to YOU! I suggest you set up a daily reading plan. Take time to listen to God’s
inner voice, too- He’s one great conversationalist, and One who truly values your
friendship!
“…the greatest love is shown when people lay down their lives for tfriends (Jesus
did that for you). You are My friends …I no longer call you servants, because a master
doesn’t confide in his servants. Now you are My friends,
since I have told you everything the Father told Me. You didn’t choose Me. I chose you. I
appointed you to go and produce fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you
whatever you ask for, using My name.â€Â
– Jesus Christ, John 15:13-16 NLT
May you yield to God’s specific plan for YOU to reach your ultimate potential and
fulfillment in this life. And friend, rest easy tonight ~ and every night! Your name was
written today in the Book of Life which is kept safe in your future, permanent home-
Heaven, The Heaven itself!
“I will never erase their names (believers) from (meaning your name is already there)
the Book of Life, but I will announce before My Father and His angels that they are
Mine.†Revelation 3:5 “...whose names are (already) written in the Book of Life.†Philippians 4:3
You’re there - count on it! You have it in writing from God! And now God has
Your Name in writing! Remember: “These things I have written to you
who believe in the name of the Son of God, that YOU may KNOW that YOU HAVE
eternal life…â€Â
1 John 5:12-13, NKJV
How can you be Absolutely Certain you’re going to Heaven?
God has doubly assured YOU with words that
leave absolutely no room for even the tiniest doubt:
“You Have......You KNOW......Forever......Conffiidentt…Sure…Guarantteeâ€Â
That’s how!
And now you KNOW! See you there!!

 

[unred typo]

First of all I would like to say this discussion has my wheels spinning which is a good thing. I would like to offer my own life up for discussion for a moment as I am confused on all of the different views on this thread.
First I am or was saved depending on the interpretation of OSAS or not OSAS, and forgive me I have a hard time getting my words from the head to the thread.
May 16th 1998 I hit a bottom with alcohol and everything I had done wrong in my drinking career came crashing down onto my head. Well I went through rehab. Got sober and started my life again with Jesus.
I did fine stayed sober until 2003, but in 2003 went to see a Physician about my migraines and he put me on a drug called Butalbtal and I became addicted to it. So addicted I started abusing it and ordering it off of the internet.
In April 2006 I had a motorcycle accident and was in the hospital, they did a full blood test and found that my liver enzymes were extremely high. I have not taken these meds since. Although a couple of months I slipped back into alcohol and I know I can not get back into this cycle because I know exactly where it leads.
The thing that accompanies this addiction cycle is unfaithfulness, lies, deceit; I basically rip through people's life like a tornado. I do not mean to make my past sound so generic, but most of this I need to go to God with.
Now I am not asking anyone to pronounce I am saved or not saved as this would not be fair to you. But as far as the debate goes I would like to see where I would stand in your doctrines.
Thank You
Lou

Thank you for sharing your testimony with us. If you would like to know “where you stand in my doctrines,†I guess I would have to say that from what you tell me, you seem to be on a circular self destruction track. The addiction to alcohol isn’t your sin, it’s what accompanies your addiction that you identified as lies, deceit, unfaithfulness. Alcohol is just the tool that Satan is using to lure you into the addiction that will drag you down into those life-ripping sins. You don’t have to drink, and you can quit if you choose. Satan is the one who wants you to believe you can’t quit without getting addicted to something else. I’m not saying it will be easy, but you can do it. If you make the effort to try, God will help you but you must take responsibility to make that effort, not just once but every day for the rest of your life. You make the effort, a real effort to repent from all your sin, and walk the straight and narrow, and God will stand beside you, even when you have the only tiniest bit of faith left that he is really there..

As for your salvation, that’s between you and God but it says that all liars will have their part in the fire, and no matter how you interpret that, it’s agony. Much worse than living without alcohol, no doubt about it. Anyone who tells you not to worry because you were saved years ago, does not care for your soul. I don’t wonder that you’re confused. We’ve been lied to. The way of salvation is not about staying sober, going to church, reading your Bible or singing in the choir,… it’s all about loving your neighbor, turning the other cheek, forgiving those that have wronged you, not being covetous, greedy or proud.

Finding out how you have strayed from God’s law of love, the gospel that Jesus preached, will help you understand why you started drinking and once you know that, I’m sure you will be even better able to defeat those demons. Resist the devil and he will flee, but sit down with him for a drink, and he will join in making a fool out of you. You can overcome this thing. God promised that you will never be tempted more than you are able to resist, so if you give in, it’s your own fault. Think it over. Pray it over with God. He wants to talk to you about it. Is it worth eternity?

You can do it, God will help.

:-D

 

[francisdesales]

How to be
Absolutely Certain
you’re going to
Heaven…
10 minutes of Good News reading that will change your life
FOREVER!

Oh boy, if this doesn't read like a television infomercial, I don't know what does...

I'm sure the devil is just waiting for us to lower our guard, thinking we have already achieved something, whiile the Bible tells us to persevere, to stay the narrow path, to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Such tracts are conducive to taking the attitude that all is already done. Relax and kick back. Continue in your life of sin, as Christ has already forgiven your FUTURE sins! Oh, the devil loves that kind of attitude.

"Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you]." 1 Peter 5:6-10

This is addressed to Christians. Remain alert. Why? Because one can fall away from Christ's offer of salvation. Yes, we are saved, but only if we persevere, steadfast in the faith. Ten minutes is only the first step, not the last in our walk in Christ. Your tract ignores the Scripture's many verses that discuss the NECESSITY to persevere.

Regards

 

[unred typo]

Oh boy, if this doesn't read like a television infomercial, I don't know what does...

I'm sure the devil is just waiting for us to lower our guard, thinking we have already achieved something, whiile the Bible tells us to persevere, to stay the narrow path, to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Such tracts are conducive to taking the attitude that all is already done. Relax and kick back. Continue in your life of sin, as Christ has already forgiven your FUTURE sins! Oh, the devil loves that kind of attitude.

"Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you]." 1 Peter 5:6-10

This is addressed to Christians. Remain alert. Why? Because one can fall away from Christ's offer of salvation. Yes, we are saved, but only if we persevere, steadfast in the faith. Ten minutes is only the first step, not the last in our walk in Christ. Your tract ignores the Scripture's many verses that discuss the NECESSITY to persevere.

Regards

Yup, Oscar is still running around with his candy bag, passing out lollipops, I see. Babies need the milk of the word, children need the bread of life, and adults need some meat. That artificial sugar junk is just going to ruin their appetite for real food. Who wants the true gospel when Satan has such a cheap counterfeit? Just the common people, the ones who know that you don’t get something for nothing and don’t interpret “take up your cross and follow me†as an invitation to a ‘Christian’ home jewelry party. :roll: