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God No One Has Seen At Any Time

God No One Has Seen At Any Time

“Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο” (John 1:18)

“God no one hath ever seen; the Unique God, who is always close to the Father; He has revealed”

This verse is used by some as “proof”, that Jesus Christ cannot be “God”. It is argued, that John is clear here, that no one has ever seen God. Is this correct?

Reading this verse shows this to be wrong. Here we have in the oldest and best textual evidence, dating from the early 2nd century, even in the Gospel of John used by the early heretics. There is no doubt that the Apostle John wrote, “Θεὸν...μονογενὴς Θεὸς”. It should also be noted, that in both places, the noun, “Θεὸς”, is used without the definite Greek article “τὸν Θεόν...Θεὸς”, as John does in 1:1, “καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος” (and the Word was God). Do we translate John 1:18 as, “god no one has ever seen...the Unique god”? No!

It is very clear from John 1:18, that John is here speaking of the Father, who has never been seen, as “Θεὸν”, is here “τοῦ Πατρὸς” (the Father), Whom Jesus is always close to. In John 6:46, Jesus makes this very clear: “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father”. Jesus here speaks of His eternal existence with God the Father, as we see the same Greek “ὢν”, as in 1:18, which is in the present, continuous tense. Also Jesus says that He is “from God” the Father, which is the preposition, “παρα”, that is, “besides, alongside”.

In Exodus chapter 33, we read, “and Yahweh said to Moses...You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live” (verses 17, 20). Yet, in verse 11 it says, “So Yahweh spoke to Moses Face to face, as a man speaks to his friend”. “pānîm ’el-pānîm”, can also mean, “Person to person”. It is clear that Yahweh here is Speaking directly to Moses, as do friends with each other. The detailed description shows that it is not a dream or vision. In verse 9 we read, “the pillar of cloud descended and stood at the door of the tabernacle”, and 10, “All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshipped, each man in his tent door”. Yahweh was in this Pillar of cloud, Whom Moses saw. In Deuteronomy 34:10, we read, “No prophet has arisen again in Israel like Moses, whom Yahweh knew Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. It is clear from Exodus 33, that there are TWO Persons Who are Yahweh. The One Who meets Moses “Face to face”, as do humans when they meet each other; and the Other, Who says that no one can ever see His Face and live! The One is Jesus Christ, and the Other, The Father. There is no other explanation for this passage.

In Genesis 32, we read, “Jacob was left alone, and a Man wrestled with him until daybreak” (verse 24). This “Man” Who Jacob wrestled with, was actually “physically” with him. In verse 30, Jacob says, “Jacob then named the place Peniel, For I have seen God Face to face (’ĕlōhîm pānîm ’el-pānîm), he said, and I have been delivered”. Jacob is clear that the “Man”, Whom he wrestled with, is none other than Almighty God.

In Numbers 14:14, “They will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that You, Lord, are among these people, how You, Yahweh, are seen Face to face (‘ayin bə‘ayin, Eye to eye), how Your cloud stands over them, and how You go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night”

Deuteronomy 5:4, “Yahweh spoke to you Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm) from the fire on the mountain”

All these Encounters are without doubt, directly with Almighty God Himself. Who is Yahweh. As this cannot be the Father, it can only be the pre-Incarnational Appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ, known as Theophanies, or Christophanies.

We also have the actual Visit from Yahweh to Abraham, in Genesis chapters 17-19, were we read of Yahweh having his “feet washed”, “eating food”, and “walking with Abraham”; all of which shows that this was not a “dream or vision”, but Yahweh actually with Abraham and Sarah.

In the 6th chapter in the Book of Judges, where we have “The Angel of Yahweh (Mal'âk Ye hôvâh)”, Visit Gideon. In verse 12 we read, “Then the Angel of Yahweh Appeared to him and said: “Yahweh is with you, mighty warrior”. Here “The Angel of Yahweh”, Speaks of Another Who is “Yahweh”. In verse 14 it says, “Yahweh looked (pânâh, to face) upon him and said”, showing “physical” contact. Gideon addresses “The Angel”, “Please, Lord (, the Name used for God), how can I deliver Israel?” (verse 15). Note that “Lord” here is, “’Aḏōnāy”, and not, “’ăḏōnê”. Clearly Gideon knows who this Mal'âk Ye hôvâh is. In the next verse, the Angel replies, “But I will be with you, the Lord said to him”. Here “LORD” is “Ye hôvâh”, Who is The Angel of Ye hôvâh! “I will be”, is in the Hebrew, “hâyâh”, which is the same in Exodus 3:14, “I AM”. Here we have The Angel of Yahweh, Who is also Yahweh, who says to Gideon, “I Am with you”. Language that is impossible for any created being to use! In verse 22 Gideon says, “When Gideon realized that He was the Angel of the Lord, he said, Oh no, Lord God (literally, ’Aḏōnāy Ye hôvâh) I have seen the Angel of the Lord Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. Gideon is assured by Yahweh Himself, “But Yahweh said to him, Peace to you. Don’t be afraid, for you will not die” (verse 23). If this Angel of Yahweh, were a created angel, then Yahweh would not have told Gideon, “Don’t be afraid, for you will not die”, as only those who see God Face to face, will die! Nothing can be clearer from this passage in Judges, that The Angel of Yahweh, Who is clearly distinct from Yahweh, and Himself Yahweh, is The Lord Jesus Christ.

In Malachi 3:1, there is a Prophecy of the First Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

“See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the Way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the Covenant you desire—see, He is Coming,” says Yahweh of Hosts”

This is a very interesting verse. The Speaker here is “Yahweh of Hosts”. The first “messenger” is to clear the Way for Him, “he will clear the Way before Me”. We then have “hā 'Adônây” (The Lord, not, “Adôn”, Who is here “Mal'âk be rı̂yth” (The Messenger of the Covenant). This “Messenger” is also Coming.

In the Gospels (Matthew 11:10, etc), Jesus Christ quotes from the verse, but makes a change to the personal pronoun. Instead of “Me (μου)”, we have “You (σου). By doing so, Jesus here makes Himself the Speaker in Malachi 3:1, Who is “Yahweh of Hosts”, and He says that John the Baptist, went before Him, to prepare His Way, and that Her is “The Messenger of the Covenant”. This is one of the strongest Testimonies by Jesus Christ, to His own Absolute Deity, as “Yahweh of Hosts”. Nothing else can account for the change of the pronoun by Jesus! Matthew 3:3, etc, with Isaiah 40:3, confirms the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Coming of Yahweh/Elohim.

Jesus Christ clearly identifies Himself as “The Messenger of Yahweh”, in the Old Testament, Who is Himself also Yahweh. Those who still argue that there is only One Person in the Bible, Who is Yahweh, and that this is the Father, are proven to be wrong from the Bible! There is no escaping the facts as taught in the Bible, that BOTH Jesus Christ, and the Father are Yahweh, but not the same Person. The Person Who Spoke with Moses FACE TO FACE, and Who is the “Man” Who Appeared to Gideon, is Yahweh. Yet we are also told that no human can see God and live. We have seen that this refers ONLY to God the Father.
You said it is very clear that John 1:18 is speaking of the Father. That no one has ever seen the Father.
Is the Father, whom no one has seen, the God of Jesus?
 
Please post the scripture from John 4 that says we only worship the Father?

Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:21-24

Thank you for quoting Jesus' prescription of worship to the Father. There are no other teachings from Jesus regarding worship. Those who worship the Father are worshipping the only true God, as Jesus taught. That's what we believe.

When Jesus was bowed to it wasn't the worship in spirit and truth that Jesus had told people to give to God. Bowing down has actually very little to do with worship in the sense of what God is seeking. Therefore, when Jesus was bowed to he wasn't worshipped in the way he said God is seeking. That means Jesus isn't God. Jesus is a human and worshipping humans as God is idolatry.

As Philippians 2:10,11 say, that when Jesus is bowed to on earth, or heaven, or under earth, he doesn't get glory for that. All glory goes to God.

Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
 
Thank you for quoting Jesus' prescription of worship to the Father. There are no other teachings from Jesus regarding worship. Those who worship the Father are worshipping the only true God, as Jesus taught. That's what we believe.

When Jesus was bowed to it wasn't the worship in spirit and truth that Jesus had told people to give to God. Bowing down has actually very little to do with worship in the sense of what God is seeking. Therefore, when Jesus was bowed to he wasn't worshipped in the way he said God is seeking. That means Jesus isn't God. Jesus is a human and worshipping humans as God is idolatry.

As Philippians 2:10,11 say, that when Jesus is bowed to on earth, or heaven, or under earth, he doesn't get glory for that. All glory goes to God.

Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
The very same declaration in regard to the Father was given to the lamb.

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
 
The very same declaration in regard to the Father was given to the lamb.

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
They only worshipped God. The lamb isn't God on the throne.

This is a Unitarian's song:

Revelation 7
9After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation to our God,
who sits on the throne,

and to the Lamb!”
 
They only worshipped God. The lamb isn't God on the throne.

This is a Unitarian's song:

Revelation 7
9After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation to our God,
who sits on the throne,

and to the Lamb!”
Again
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
 
Again
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
God and the lamb can both have praise, honor, glory and power and it doesn't contradict scripture, but only God is worshipped. That's important to understand.
 
God and the lamb can both have praise, honor, glory and power and it doesn't contradict scripture, but only God is worshipped. That's important to understand.
The very same as the Father, Honor, Glory, and power,
To state they didn't worship as they stated is highly unlikely but not surprised you can't accept so. No one else was mentioned in all of creation. Father and the Lamb only.
 
The very same as the Father, Honor, Glory, and power,
To state they didn't worship as they stated is highly unlikely but not surprised you can't accept so. No one else was mentioned in all of creation. Father and the Lamb only.
The four living creatures and 24 elders fall down and worship because it is the Lamb who created them. If not for the Lamb, they’d still be dead and in their graves.
A wonderful prophecy of the rapture.
 
Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.


Yes, Jesus Christ is the Lord: YHWH the LORD God.

He is coming soon, with His saints from Heaven on the Day of The LORD.

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:4-5


  • Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.


Jesus will return soon on the Day of the LORD, which is the Day of Christ.


And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD (YHWH)
Shall be saved. Joel 2:32


What is the name of the LORD (YHWH) we call on to be saved?


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-13


Jesus is the name of YHWH: the LORD God of the Old Testament.



JLB
 
Yes, Jesus Christ is the Lord: YHWH the LORD God.

He is coming soon, with His saints from Heaven on the Day of The LORD.

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:4-5


  • Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.


Jesus will return soon on the Day of the LORD, which is the Day of Christ.


And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD (YHWH)
Shall be saved. Joel 2:32


What is the name of the LORD (YHWH) we call on to be saved?


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-13


Jesus is the name of YHWH: the LORD God of the Old Testament.



JLB
Blessed is he(The Christ) who comes in the name of the LORD(YHWH).
In the name of his God.
 
Blessed is he(The Christ) who comes in the name of the LORD(YHWH).
In the name of his God.

You are mixing scripture of His position as a flesh and blood man, who became a little lower than the angels.

He was fully man and fully God

Jesus Christ is YHWH: The LORD God who became flesh.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

Who was manifested in the flesh?

The Father or the Son?
 
You are mixing scripture of His position as a flesh and blood man, who became a little lower than the angels.

He was fully man and fully God

Jesus Christ is YHWH: The LORD God who became flesh.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

Who was manifested in the flesh?

The Father or the Son?
Are you saying Jesus the man has a God, but Jesus the God does not?
Orthodox Trinitarianism teaches that Jesus is only one person and that single person is God. They say, he is man but not a man.
 
I had a discussion with a Calvinist who considered himself an orthodox trinitarian. I pointed out to him that Jesus said he has a God. He replied, “no, he doesn’t “

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”
 
Are you saying Jesus the man has a God, but Jesus the God does not?

Jesus as a Son submits to His Father, therefore His Father and His God are the same.


As far a being God, Jesus is God, just as a human son is a human being as his father is a human being.

Would you like scriptures than what I have given that show us Jesus is God?

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16


Jesus as God, was manifested in the flesh.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14




JLB
 
Jesus as a Son submits to His Father, therefore His Father and His God are the same.


As far a being God, Jesus is God, just as a human son is a human being as his father is a human being.

Would you like scriptures than what I have given that show us Jesus is God?

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16


Jesus as God, was manifested in the flesh.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14




JLB
Are you suggesting Jesus is subordinate to his Father? If so, trinitarianism rejects that idea.
A person who obeys the commands of another person is a lesser person than the one he obeys.
 
If Christ is the head of the Church then Christ is the one whom the Church obeys. If God is the head of Christ then God is the one whom Christ obeys.
The Church is not Christ himself, and neither is Christ God Himself.
 
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