God the Father created Jesus

[Sothenes]

"The Colossian heresy, in its attack upon the absolute deity of our Lord, states that the divine essence of deity is scattered among the angelic emanations from deity, and that our Lord possessed only a part of it. Paul answers, in the words of the A.V.,'For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell' (1:19), and 'For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily' (2:9). The word 'dwelleth' is katoikeo, made up of oikeo, 'to live in a home, to be at home,' and kata, whose root meaning is 'down' and speaks or permanence. The expanded translation reads, '...because in Him [God] was well pleased that all the fullness be permanently at home' (1:19), and '...because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fullness of absolute deity in bodily fashion' (2:9)"
-p. ix"The New Testament, An Expanded Translation" by Kenneth Wuest, Teacher Emeritus of New Testament Greek, The Moody Bible Institute

"And He himself antedates all things, and all things in Him cohere. And He himself is the Head of His Body, the Church. He is the originator [i.e., the creator], the firstborn out from among the dead, in order that He might become in all things himself the One who is pre-eminent, because in Him [God] was well pleased that all the fullness be permanently at home. And [God was well pleased] through His agency to reconcile all things to himself, having concluded peace through the blood of His Cross, through Him, whether the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens."-The New Testament (An Expanded Translation) by Kenneth S. Wuest, Colossians 1:17-20, p.470

 

[Georges]

Can I just ask, what's the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven whether God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one or whether they are separate beings? How does this perception of who they are effect our salvation?

It doesn't - unless you are a trinitarian it seems.

But out of interest are there any trinitarians that believe one can accept Jesus is the son of God rather than be God, and still be 'saved'.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (ego eimi) [he], ye shall die in your sins.

Exd 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jesus is the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14 and if you don't believe what He said about Himself then His words in John 8:24 are what counts.

Jesus is the Memra of the OT......The Memra was God's rerpresentative in the OT. The Memra was the Agent of God when dealing with man. The Memra was God's spokesman when conveying a message to man.

Jesus is the Memra in the flesh...Jesus is God's representative in the NT. Jesus is the Agent of God when dealing with man in the NT. Jesus is God's spokesman when conveying a message to man in the NT.

As the Memra of both the OT and NT, and according to the Jewish "law of agency", Jesus can be seen as being God in representation without being God (the Supreme)

If you don't believe the "Word (Memra) of God" as the agent of God in the flesh, then you don't believe God.

 

[Aslan]

Only God can save.

One thing that has not been discussed is whether a mere man can save us or not. If jesus is not God, how can he save us from our sins? God created the laws we need to live by, so he is the only one that can forgive sin. It is clear that Jesus says he is God so he has the authority to forgive sin. Here are some scriptures not already cited:

Jn 8:58 (NIV) - I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Jn 13:19-20 (NIV) - "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He. 20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

Jn 1:3 (NIV) - Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (He created all things, this is attributed to God in Genesis)

Mt 4:5-7 (NIV) - Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:

" `He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "

Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' " (Answering the Devil who is tempting him.)

 

[Georges]

John 20:26-29:

26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Jesus as the Agent or Memra (Word) of God fits Thomas' statement perfectly.....below is the strong's definition of "God". Check out the definition (in bold) that fits this verse perfectly...

theos {theh'-os}

TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 3:65,322 of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity
Part of Speech
n m
Outline of Biblical Usage

1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities

2) the Godhead, trinity

a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity

b) Christ, the second person of the trinity

c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity

3) spoken of the only and true God

a) refers to the things of God

b) his counsels, interests, things due to him

4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way

a) God's representative or viceregent

1) of magistrates and judges


According to the Jewish "Law of Agency" the agent is seen as the principle, so one seeing/dealing with Jesus, can be construed as seeing/dealing with God himself, without Jesus being God. Jewish law of representation.


29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."


Isaiah 9:6:

6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


Again, Strongs definition of God in Hebrew answer's this....

Hebrew for 0410

Pronunciation Guide
'el {ale}

TWOT Reference Root Word
TWOT - 93a shortened from 0352
Part of Speech
n m
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) god, god-like one, mighty one

a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes

b) angels

c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)

d) God, the one true God, Jehovah

2) mighty things in nature

3) strength, power


take your pick.....a trinitarian will choose 1 d. a non trinitarian may choose 1 a.

Since this is a prophecy concerning the Messianic Millennium....Christ will be on reigning on earth and God will be ruling all from heaven....so....trinitarians strike out on this one...

Gingercat, I'd like to see you refute this.

Once again, could someone quote this for me?

J.....that one was pretty easy....

 

[ChristineES]

Can I just ask, what's the difference in the Kingdom of Heaven whether God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one or whether they are separate beings? How does this perception of who they are effect our salvation?

No, it doesn't. All you have to do is to is accept Jesus as your savior, repent of your sins, leave your sinful life behind and then you are a Christian. It is as simple as that.
I don't believe for just one second that only one denomination will be saved. I believe that most of them will be. Besides that it is the Church, which is not a building, but the body of Christians that is saved. Peter was the first one of that Church by these verses:


Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give the keys of the kingdom of Heaven to you. And whatever you may bind on earth shall occur, having been bound in Heaven, and whatever you may loose on earth shall occur, having been loosed in Heaven.

 

[gingercat]

Christine,

Ask any trinitarian, They will tell you that if you don't believe in Trinity you are not Christian.

 

[ChristineES]

Christine,

Ask any trinitarian, They will tell you that if you don't believe in Trinity you are not Christian.

I think that is sad, because I don't believe that. Besides, only God and the person knows if he is a true Christian or not. I try to beware of any one who says, "Only my denomination is a True Christian". I think we should all avoid that, but I can't tell others what to do.

 

[Sothenes]

Christine,

Ask any trinitarian, They will tell you that if you don't believe in Trinity you are not Christian.

I think that is sad, because I don't believe that. Besides, only God and the person knows if he is a true Christian or not. I try to beware of any one who says, "Only my denomination is a True Christian". I think we should all avoid that, but I can't tell others what to do.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

In light of these statements, would you then beware of Jesus because He said,"I am the way" and "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."?

 

[gingercat]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

In light of these statements, would you then beware of Jesus because He said,"I am the way" and "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."?

You are missing the OP point. I believe Jesus is Son of God and Savior of the world. But Jesus is not God the Father. Yes, of course we need Jesus to be saved, that's not what I am arguing at all. Please read all my posts.

 

[Sothenes]

Christ is the word. He was before he became human. IN FACT HE ALWAYS WAS for he WAS GOD!
.
"And the Word was with God. AND THE WORD WAS GOD!"

Christ is the eternally begotten Son of God.

Begotten Son is Son, and not the Father. Jesus is created by God and He is Son of God, Savior of the world but He is not God.

He was created before anything else. He is the first creation of God.

I read your post here because you asked me to read your post so I'm assuming you want me to directly address what you wrote.

You have to remember that Jesus is always God but Jesus took on an additional nature through addition and not subtraction. "And the Word was made flesh" (John 1:14) so the incarnation was a creation but the essence of the pre-incarnate Christ is God Himself. Jesus is God because "God was manifest in the flesh," I Tim. 3:16 and you say they aren't which leads me to believe the Bible over you.

Could Jesus make himself? "Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things."-Isaiah 44:24 It is true that God makes all things but Colossians 1:13 is talking about the Son (Jesus) and verse 16 is talking about Jesus and the verse says,"all things were created by him, (Jesus) and for him."-Colossians 1:16b

We know that the additional nature of Christ, i.e. "His human flesh" was created or "made flesh" (John 1:14) so the question is could Jesus make himself if He was not God?

Only God can forgive sins because Isaiah says,"I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake.." (Isaiah 43:25) and yet Jesus says,"son, thy sins be forgiven thee."-Mark 2:5b

Yahweh is speaking,"..they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."-Zechariah 12:10 How can Yahweh be called "his firstborn" if He wasn't created and did all the creating? If Jesus did all the creating then How was He created? Either Jesus was God and eternal which "became flesh" and dwelt among us or we believe you that he was created and believe a contradiction in the Bible that Jesus didn't create all things (Colossians 1:16) but the fact is that you have a contradiction to explain and Trinitarians do not have a contradiction to explain.

Who was pierced on the cross? Jesus was pierced on the cross and this verse identifies Jesus as Yahweh.

I was reading in my Bible, "Then the LORD (YHVH) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD (YHVH) out of heaven;"-Genesis 19:24

I know from the previous chapter that it says,"I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know."-Genesis 18:21 If he went down then how can he rain fire from heaven? You have to come up with better answers for me.

 

[gingercat]

Sothens,

How about this verse

Col 1:15

"He is the image of the invisible God, the first born over all creation."

The image, not God Himself. The verse goes on talking about Jesus, not mentioning once that He is God.

 

[Imagican]

Re: Only God can save.

One thing that has not been discussed is whether a mere man can save us or not. If jesus is not God, how can he save us from our sins? God created the laws we need to live by, so he is the only one that can forgive sin. It is clear that Jesus says he is God so he has the authority to forgive sin. Here are some scriptures not already cited:

Jn 8:58 (NIV) - I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

And He was in existence before Abraham.

Jn 13:19-20 (NIV) - "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He. The Messiah. 20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

Jn 1:3 (NIV) - Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (He created all things, this is attributed to God in Genesis) And this scripture states that 'through' Him, NOT by Him.
Mt 4:5-7 (NIV) - Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:

" `He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "

Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' " (Answering the Devil who is tempting him.)

NO, the devil stated PLAINLY that God would command His angels concerning Christ. And the scripture states that the devil was putting God to the test, NOT CHRIST.

So, Aslan, maybe the reason that these scriptures haven't been offered yet is that they serve no purpose in 'trying' to prove that Jesus IS God. Nice try though.

 

[Klee shay]

Jesus Himself portrayed two models in unity without exclusion. I am the Son and God is the Father, but we are also one.

At some point Jesus and God are one - whether in Heaven or on Earth or both; the irrefutable truth Jesus taught us is they are one without exception.

He also taught us that he is the Son and God is the Father - another irrefutable truth. So is Jesus lying at some point or has his infinite knowledge included both in his model of unity?

Another example we could use is that Jesus taught us to put God first and to call no-one else good - not even Him. And yet Jesus also taught us that there is no way to the Father except through the Son, which puts him before the Father; does it not?

I still put God first but I also believe in Jesus as my means to the Father. By believing in Jesus in this way however, do I automatically put God last in order? No, I use the Holy Spirit to discern what is the whole truth and what is defiling God.

Likewise, to say Jesus is not God is to call Jesus a liar for he said they are one also. Jesus didn't say at any point - I am not my Father. He said my Father and I are one. They are one without question or exception and that is an irrefutable truth.

On the other hand, if a person believes Jesus is God while excluding Jesus as the Son, they defile the whole truth as it was taught. Jesus taught he was the Son without exception - the irrefutable truth.

One understanding doesn't necessarily canel out the other. They are unified as the Father and Son are unified.

Which brings me back to my original question however. How does either stance effect our salvation? Jesus was the Son who was also unified with the Father; therefore Jesus and God are one. If a person follows trinity or not; aren't they both following the lessons Jesus taught to one degree or another? Do we ever get it completely right?

Are we lost to the Lord completely or merely need redirection?

 

[Sothenes]

Sothens,

How about this verse

Col 1:15

"He is the image of the invisible God, the first born over all creation."

The image, not God Himself. The verse goes on talking about Jesus, not mentioning once that He is God.

The King James and NASB are literal Bibles and if I said,"That really blew my mind" then they would literally try to translate what I said by saying that grey matter exited my head but there are other shades of Greek and "first born" can metaphorically mean "first in rank" and since Jesus resurrected it can mean first out from among the dead which means that Jesus is different than creation because He raised Himself from the dead as God. You also ignored Zechariah 10:12 which calls God "firstborn".

Let me post the translation from one of the NASB translators on what you earlier ignored:

"The Colossian heresy, in its attack upon the absolute deity of our Lord, states that the divine essence of deity is scattered among the angelic emanations from deity, and that our Lord possessed only a part of it. Paul answers, in the words of the A.V.,'For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell' (1:19), and 'For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily' (2:9). The word 'dwelleth' is katoikeo, made up of oikeo, 'to live in a home, to be at home,' and kata, whose root meaning is 'down' and speaks or permanence. The expanded translation reads, '...because in Him [God] was well pleased that all the fullness be permanently at home' (1:19), and '...because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fullness of absolute deity in bodily fashion' (2:9)"
-p. ix"The New Testament, An Expanded Translation" by Kenneth Wuest, Teacher Emeritus of New Testament Greek, The Moody Bible Institute

"And He himself antedates all things, and all things in Him cohere. And He himself is the Head of His Body, the Church. He is the originator [i.e., the creator], the firstborn out from among the dead, in order that He might become in all things himself the One who is pre-eminent, because in Him [God] was well pleased that all the fullness be permanently at home. And [God was well pleased] through His agency to reconcile all things to himself, having concluded peace through the blood of His Cross, through Him, whether the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens."-The New Testament (An Expanded Translation) by Kenneth S. Wuest, Colossians 1:17-20, p.470

 

[Sothenes]

Re: Only God can save.

One thing that has not been discussed is whether a mere man can save us or not. If jesus is not God, how can he save us from our sins? God created the laws we need to live by, so he is the only one that can forgive sin. It is clear that Jesus says he is God so he has the authority to forgive sin. Here are some scriptures not already cited:

Jn 8:58 (NIV) - I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

And He was in existence before Abraham.

Jn 13:19-20 (NIV) - "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He. The Messiah. 20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

Jn 1:3 (NIV) - Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (He created all things, this is attributed to God in Genesis) And this scripture states that 'through' Him, NOT by Him.
Mt 4:5-7 (NIV) - Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:

" `He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "

Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' " (Answering the Devil who is tempting him.)

NO, the devil stated PLAINLY that God would command His angels concerning Christ. And the scripture states that the devil was putting God to the test, NOT CHRIST.

So, Aslan, maybe the reason that these scriptures haven't been offered yet is that they serve no purpose in 'trying' to prove that Jesus IS God. Nice try though.

The NIV is a thought for thought translation and some say an interpretation. If it is thought for thought, they aren't going by the original words.

 

[xicali]

First Part

Sothens,

How about this verse

Col 1:15

"He is the image of the invisible God, the first born over all creation."

The image, not God Himself. The verse goes on talking about Jesus, not mentioning once that He is God.

Hi Gingercat,

You said “the verse goes on talking about Jesus, not mentioning once that He is God.â€Â

But the continuing verse does mention that He is God…

Observe:
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: For by him were all things created, and for him.†Colossians 1:15-16

Twice: “For by him were all things created†and “For by him were all things created: and for himâ€Â

The “Him†part is God since Paul says “For by him were all things created: and for himâ€Â
God is the Creator and He creates for Him or for Himself.

Watch this:
“When He [God] cometh into the world, he saith [as Jesus], Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me.†Hebrews 10:5

Who prepared the body? Well… “By him were all things created and for Him.â€Â
“A body hast Thou prepared me†was created or prepared for Himself

Jesus was a prepared body God use to come into the world and dwell in Jesus, and sacrifice that body on the cross.

God is not the husband of Mary nor did they have a child out of wedlock. God predestinate Mary so that God could be born in her.

Every male that is born of a woman is called a “son.†Was Jesus the son of Mary? Yes, Mary is the mother of the man called Jesus of Nazareth. But she is not the mother of the spirit that is inside of Jesus.

The Spirit that is inside Jesus created Mary, so that God could receive a body and come to earth, and God has no mother.

“…As the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.†Hebrews 2:14

Who has children? God has children so those children are participating of a body and likewise the Father of those children participated of the same thing Flesh and blood. This is for the sole purpose to destroy satan and other certain things on the cross, with the blood of Jesus.

 

[xicali]

Part Two






Why Jesus call himself The Son of God when he was God? Because he could not openly say that he was God in the flesh otherwise his ministry wouldn’t have lasted 3 years. God came has his own son, to serve a dual purpose as we shall see.

“…where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.†Hebrews 9:16-17

Gingercat…Let us suppose that I am your rich uncle and as soon as I pass on you will receive an inheritance from me. The rule is that only if I’m dead you will receive this testament. I’m ill and way in into my years and die.

The correct thing to do is to receive what I left for you. What if I had a near death experience and come back to life. For all practical purposes I was pronounced dead, but since I’m back you no longer can have my inheritance.

God intervened on a dual manifestation where He made sure that we can have an inheritance. “…Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them…†Matthew 9:15

Can you be saddened while the husband is still with you in the wedding
feast? Jesus prophesied that this “First†husband was going to be taken away from them.


“…My brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.â€Â

The manifestation of the body of Jesus of Nazareth was the first Husband no longer into effect because he left us an inheritance with His death and His body.

We now belong to the second Husband “Him who is raised from the dead†Why? So that we should bring forth fruit unto God. Otherwise there’s no fruit.

Is Jesus of Nazareth and the risen Christ one and the same? God resurrected the body of Jesus with a glorified body where he is now God over all.

The body of Jesus is no longer the son of Mary, but God Himself.

“Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amenââ Romans 9:4-5

“…Though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.†2 Corinthians 5:16

 

[xicali]

Part Three


We are not supposed to know Jesus according to the flesh but as God who is over all. Do not know him as a Jew under the law, as the son of Mary, because to know him according to the flesh is adultery on our part.

So then if, while her husband liveth, [Jesus of Nazareth] she be married to another man[God who is over all], she shall [the church]be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead[Jesus of Nazareth], she is free from that law[the marriage law]; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Romans 7:3

Jesus made another prophesy according to this:

“…whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.†Matthew 21:42-44

If you don’t get the clear correct understanding of God in his dual intervention, you have fallen on this stone so therefore you are broken. But if you pesist in not understanding it will grind you to power.

Because “…He that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.†1 Corinthians 11:29

Remember this: “…If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.†1 Corinthians 15:19-20

If in this life under Grace we have hope in God as in the Nazarene, we are to be of all men most miserable, But our other husband who is now risen is in us whereas in the days of his flesh no body had God inside as you NOW HAVE THE HOLLY SPIRIT Dwelling in you!

ABBA FATHER!!!

Ginger with honest respect this is my personal understanding of The Deity of Christ there’s more of this in the bible but space and time doesn’t permit me to write more.

This is not meant to insult your belief system we are under the apostasy prior to the coming of our Lord he will judge us but I have Hope and Faith that He will find us worthy of his accompaniment, to reign in life with Him here on earth.

 

[mutzrein]

xicali - I don't doubt your sincerity but none of your trinity of posts (apart from your own words) say that Jesus is God.

 

[Georges]

Re: Only God can save.

One thing that has not been discussed is whether a mere man can save us or not. If jesus is not God, how can he save us from our sins?

Good question and one that needs to be addressed...

God created the laws we need to live by, so he is the only one that can forgive sin.

Very true....however, technically, we also can forgive sins committed against us...We don't need a intercessor between us and someone who offends us...If someone sins against me, I will accept that persons apology and forgiving him of his sin toward me, without a mediator.


It is clear that Jesus says he is God so he has the authority to forgive sin.

Jesus never claims to be God (Technically the Father). He claims to be the Memra of God...that is "The Word". The Memra is the Hebrew concept of John's "Word". God speaks and the Memra does.

Here are some scriptures not already cited:

Jn 8:58 (NIV) - I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

The Memra was present before and the administrator of creation...so if Jesus is the NT Memra (Word of God in the Flesh), then he was present (at least in spirit) before Abraham was.

Jn 13:19-20 (NIV) - "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He. 20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

Jesus as the Memra of God in the flesh, is God according to the Jewish Law of Agency....So what Jesus says, goes, as he is the mouthpiece of God, therefore he has the authority as given by God to act on God's behalf.

Jn 1:3 (NIV) - Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (He created all things, this is attributed to God in Genesis)

In Judaism, The Memra (the active word) of God created the all things....God spoke the command and the Memra accomplished it.

Mt 4:5-7 (NIV) - Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:

" `He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "

Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' " (Answering the Devil who is tempting him.)

This doesn't prove anything about Jesus being God...Don't you think that the Devil (who had (and still does) have access to God in heaven) would have known that Jesus was God if Jesus was God?

Jesus as the Memra of God, isn't God, but is God in Agency.....

Here is a link that provides the information on the Memra....The Word of God...

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... arch=Memra