GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Could you give me the verse?
It sounds like the OT.
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God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone
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It sounds like the OT.
Verse 28 is in direct contradiction to your doctrine of fear.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
If I may say something here, you appear to be very unreasonable, the fear of God is reverence for God, not fear of punishment. God True Children fear God, reverence God, God sends to them that fear Him a word of Salvation Acts 13:26
Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
Prov 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Ps 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Now that fear is different from the fear that is mercenary, the fear of punishment like here
1 Jn 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
See fear here is dread, terror,
Thats different from the previous healthy fear that God gives His People as Gift of His Grace Jer 32:39
And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Now with that said, how do you understand this verse 1 Pet 2:17
Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. Now thats an imperative !
I have answered the question multiple times. God wants to live in lone, not fear.
Fear the Lord your God and serve him.
But the scriptures show a people of faith that "Loved", "honored" and "feared" God.
As is written:
The LORD delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love.
It is the OT.
Malachi 3:16
This is not.
Acts 9:31
Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace and was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it increased in numbers.
1 Peter 2:17
Peter -Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.
I am at peace with God so I don't live in fear but I do fear God. I'm not serving God in the old way of the written code but in the new way of the Spirit.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I think I know what you mean.
Maybe if we really grasped the power God has to have in order to have created the universe, we'd feel some fear. It's an awesome thought.
Context fear God
Jesus-Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Jesus-You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
I don't live in fear but I do fear God? Which is it?
So far you be done twice. Which is it?
I gave you many scriptures New and Old testament showing saints who fear God living in peace, love and honor of their God. Yet you continue to ignore them. As long as I remain in Christ my conscience is clear and I have no reason to fear "Judgement". Since I both love and fear God I will not throw myself down.
From time to time, we get homosexual and atheist people who post who do admit they are not Christians. Do you think they fear God or hold God in awe? In keeping with this thread my primary focus was how God's grace does and doesn't seem work through peoples of the whole earth not meaning Christians.
We know from acts in regard to Pentecost "God fearing" Jews were visiting Jerusalem as overstated from every nation under heaven. We know Cornelious and his family were God fearing. We can reason in regard to the two men crucified with Jesus one of them didn't love nor fear God while the other seemed to fear and hold God in awe. And while both of them asked something of Jesus only the one who appeared concerned about judgment from God was answered. Paul suggested/stated the gospels primary focus was to the children of Abraham and God-fearing gentiles. Its problematic that there were many different so-called Gods believed in those days. We do know when God sent to Nineveh a message of judgment they were instilled "with fear" and repented and God relented. Part of the gospel message is the wrath of God against those who choose to continue to live in sin. It seems to me a correlation is seen in those who fear Gods wrath and how Gods grace works is able to work through/in them vs those who do not fear nor hold God in awe.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Of course atheists don't fear God...they don't even believe He exists - or at least, they like not to believe that He does.
God's grace is meant for everyone on earth...everyone receives enough grace to be able to seek God, or, at least, to reply to Him when He makes Himself known to someone. Then a person will reply as he will.
I don't think about fearing God too much. In my last post I did say that if we really stop to think of His awesome power, perhaps we should feel fear...?
However, I do want to say again that the phrase God-fearing persons - both in the OT and the NT, as far as I could see means someone that DOES believe in God...they are called a God-fearing person. Just like Cornelius and his family were. IOW, it's not that they feared God, but that they were true believers; the expression was used, God-fearing man.
I've always understood God-fearing to mean this and not the idea that we are to be afraid of God.
Maybe you mean this too?
Could you read the source below and let me know what you think?
God-fearing
ADJECTIVE [usually ADJECTIVE noun]A God-fearing person is religious and behaves according to the moral rules of their religion.
They brought up their children to be God-fearing Christians.
What Does it Mean to Fear God?
Fearing God means both bowing in utter reverence and respect before the One who created the world and all things in it and cowering on trembling knees at the prospect that He could if He so chose, destroy us all in a moment.source: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-god-fearing-christian.html
In regard to the saints God fearing seems to go with worship, reverence, and awe of God. As in those who love God.
In contrast Judas as a example did not appear to be one who feared God. The one man next to Jesus who was sarcastic didn't appear to fear God regardless of whether he didn't believe in his heart Jesus was the Christ.
However Nineveh was instilled with fear when they heard God's message of judgment. I doubt they were worshippers of the God of Israel and yet they believed Jonah's words were from God.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Right, fear is included in the feelings one could have toward God, and to those that
worship, revere, and are in awe of God, as you've said.
I looked up some verses in the NT about fearing God and it seems to be split down the middle.
Verses about fearing God:
MATTHEW 10:28
LUKE 1:50
PHIL 2:12-13
2 COR 7:1
1 PETER 1:17
1 PETER 2:17
ACTS 9:31
LUKE 12:5
2 COR 5:11
There are just as many verses saying we are not to fear God, or that God loves us completely.
I still think fear means a healthy dose of reverence. But, like I said, I think some amount of fear may not be a bad idea.
I think it's just that some of us may feel it and some may not, so it's unreal to those that don't feel any fear at all.
Fear implies punishment. 1 John 4:18, "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love." I don't think it could be any clearer than this. One either fears or loves.
I believe that the "fear" of God has more to do with reverence and awe, not being afraid. Why be afraid of a loving Father?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I agree with you.
But the other poster is right too.
The word FEAR is included with reverence, respect, etc.
That means that fear is something different.
That would be Randy I think.
He does have a valid point.
We don't all see God exactly the same way.
I don't think this is a topic that could be debated since it seems to me to be personal.
I just find it unfortunate that the word "fear" is used instead of, for example, "revere". The common definition is "be afraid of (someone or something) as likely to be dangerous, painful, or threatening" or "an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger". Neither of these meanings should describe how we feel toward our loving Father in heaven.
The Hebrew word translated into 'awe' in the Bible is yirah (יראה, pronounced yir-ah). It often directly translates into fear, like “fear of the Lord,” but it can also mean respect, reverence, and worship. But, make no mistake about it, yirah is strongly connected to 'trembling'.
Paul wrote... Philippians 4:7, "Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. Let your gentleness be known to everyone. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."
This to me is the complete opposite of what Randy and others have written. I have a strong aversion to those people who are unable to rest in God's love. They seem to have a fear of authority in general and believe that God is just waiting for them to do something wrong so that He can "lower the boom" on them.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
There were also a lot of verses in the NT that stated that we love God and God loves us and NOT to fear Him.
I want to check my Italian bible - it's closer to the Greek.
I looked up
Mathew 10:28
Luke 1:50
Acts 9:31
Luke 12:5
They all use the word FEAR.
I do want to repeat that I feel as you do, but also respect how others might feel.
Awe, reverence and love is how I feel the most.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Salvation isnt for everyone, but for a specific chosen people, Israel, and no not national physical israel, but Spiritual Israel, Christs Seed, all Gods elect chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. Salvation is only promised to that people Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
There is no reason to live in fear as long as one remains in Christ, but many are not in Christ.
This is a warning.
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
So, fear to sin or be disobedient to Gods commands as in fear God. So, if at all possible, find out what the Fathers will is on any given manner and get on His side. Jesus described the unjust judge as one who didn't fear God nor care what others thought. So, if you were a judge who feared God you would hold to just and impartial judgments. If you were a tax collector collect no more than the law dictates. John the Baptists instruction to the soldiers don't extort, don't accuse falsely, and be content with pay. (luke 3)
Same principle
For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
Just as Paul implied before his testimony to Felix.
However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.