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dianegcook said:
Lev.23:5
In the 14th day of the first month AT EVEN is The Lord's Passover.
The Passover has a feast of unleaven bread. High Day
At EVENING on the 14th, preparation day, our Tuesday sunset, to Wed.sunset, we have,
Matt.26:20
The even was come, our Tuesday after sunset, the plot for betrayal was ripe for execution.
The trials, continued throughout our Tuesday night, Matt.26:57-27:31
About the 6th hour, , our Tuesday.midnight, Pilate said Behold your king. John 19:14,15

It was the 3rd hour and they crucified Him, our 9am Wed, Mark 15:25,26

The 6th hour, our Wed. Noon, the darkness, Matt:27:45-49

The 9th hour, our Wed, 3pm, the expiring cry, Matt.27:50.

Buried in haste before sunset, our Wed. About 6 pm, before the High Day, (the first day of the feast), our Wed.sunset. John 19:31,
John 19:42, nigh at hand..

Thus, our Wed.sunset, (first day of the feast, the High Day, the 15th), through Thursday.sunset

Wed.sunset to Thur.sunset. ===1 day and 1 night. The 15th
Thursday.sunset to Fri.sunset===2 days and 2 nights The 16th
Fri.sunset to Sat.sunset, (our Sat.sunset which is Sun. First day of the week) ===3 days and 3 nights. The 17th
Click to expand...


How in the world is Wednesday and Thursday one day?

Jesus was tortured and hung on the cross for most of the day. That day is counted as a day.

Jesus crucifixion didn’t began at three it ended at three on the day before the Sabbath, that’s Friday, the day of preparation.

It was an all day event for Him.

The Passover is counted as a day.

Not the Passover and the next day the Sabbath being counted as one day.

The Sabbath is a day.
The Passover is a day.
The first day of the week is a day.


I have never heard of anyone counting two days as one day.

Makes no sense, ma’am.


You have never answered my question from my post.


Please show me what you disagree with in the following scriptures.



Day 1 Friday - And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”...
Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. Luke 23: 43, 53-55


Day 2 - The Sabbath Saturday - Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
Luke 23:56


Day 3 Sunday - Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. Luke 24:1


Do you disagree that the third day was Sunday, the first day of the week.




JLB
 
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dianegcook said:
Lev.23:5
In the 14th day of the first month AT EVEN is The Lord's Passover.
The Passover has a feast of unleaven bread. High Day
At EVENING on the 14th, preparation day, our Tuesday sunset, to Wed.sunset, we have,
Matt.26:20
The even was come, our Tuesday after sunset, the plot for betrayal was ripe for execution.
The trials, continued throughout our Tuesday night, Matt.26:57-27:31
About the 6th hour, , our Tuesday.midnight, Pilate said Behold your king. John 19:14,15

It was the 3rd hour and they crucified Him, our 9am Wed, Mark 15:25,26

The 6th hour, our Wed. Noon, the darkness, Matt:27:45-49

The 9th hour, our Wed, 3pm, the expiring cry, Matt.27:50.

Buried in haste before sunset, our Wed. About 6 pm, before the High Day, (the first day of the feast), our Wed.sunset. John 19:31,
John 19:42, nigh at hand..

Thus, our Wed.sunset, (first day of the feast, the High Day, the 15th), through Thursday.sunset

Wed.sunset to Thur.sunset. ===1 day and 1 night. The 15th
Thursday.sunset to Fri.sunset===2 days and 2 nights The 16th
Fri.sunset to Sat.sunset, (our Sat.sunset which is Sun. First day of the week) ===3 days and 3 nights. The 17th
Click to expand...
Hi Diane, thanks for laying it out so cleanly for me to follow. I appreciate that!

Let me see if I have this right. In my own words, this is what I have you saying.

14th, Day of Preparation. Jesus is crucified and buried. This day does not count for the three days and three days. Can you tell me why this day doesn't count?

Wednesday, 15th, Night 1, Passover meal eaten, start of High Sabbath.
Thursday, 15th Day 1, High Sabbath
Friday, 16th, Night 2
Friday, 16th Day 2
Saturday, 17th, Night 3
Saturday, 17th, Day 3. Jesus raised from the dead.
Sunday, 18th, Tomb found empty.

I believe this is an accurate summation of how you see things.

I know I posted this earlier, and I'm not trying to be difficult, but Paul has Jesus being raised on the 16th, which is the day after the high Sabbath and if the festival of the first fruits. 1Corinthians 15:20

Because Jesus was raised on the day of the first fruits (16th), your date of Jesus raising on the 17th doesn't sit well with that date.

So basically, I only have two questions that I can't get past with your dates.

1. Why don't you count the 14th since he died on that day and was buried? What biblical text or Jewish tradition can you use to support not counting that day?

2. How do you justify the 17th as the day Jesus rose from the dead when Paul claims it was the 16th?

Again, im not trying to be difficult with you, nor am I trying to be right. I'm more curious how you support your view.

Thanks.
 
StoveBolts said:
Hi Diane, thanks for laying it out so cleanly for me to follow. I appreciate that!

Let me see if I have this right. In my own words, this is what I have you saying.

14th, Day of Preparation. Jesus is crucified and buried. This day does not count for the three days and three days. Can you tell me why this day doesn't count?

Wednesday, 15th, Night 1, Passover meal eaten, start of High Sabbath.
Thursday, 15th Day 1, High Sabbath
Friday, 16th, Night 2
Friday, 16th Day 2
Saturday, 17th, Night 3
Saturday, 17th, Day 3. Jesus raised from the dead.
Sunday, 18th, Tomb found empty.

I believe this is an accurate summation of how you see things.

I know I posted this earlier, and I'm not trying to be difficult, but Paul has Jesus being raised on the 16th, which is the day after the high Sabbath and if the festival of the first fruits. 1Corinthians 15:20

Because Jesus was raised on the day of the first fruits (16th), your date of Jesus raising on the 17th doesn't sit well with that date.

So basically, I only have two questions that I can't get past with your dates.

1. Why don't you count the 14th since he died on that day and was buried? What biblical text or Jewish tradition can you use to support not counting that day?

2. How do you justify the 17th as the day Jesus rose from the dead when Paul claims it was the 16th?

Again, im not trying to be difficult with you, nor am I trying to be right. I'm more curious how you support your view.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
1 question
Crucifixion and burial are 2 different things, He was not in the heart of the earth, He was buried right before sunset, buried in haste, Joseph had to claim His body, kinsman redeemer.
Wed, sunset to Thursday Sunset, 1 day 1 night

2 question
John 20:15-17
Jesus Saith to Mary, Why weepest thou?.....
Jesus Saith unto her, Touch Me not, for I am not yet ascended to My Father.
Lev.23:10,11
Ye shall bring a sheaf of the FIRST FRUITS.
And He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, on the MORROW AFTER the SABBATH

1 Cor.15:20 , does not set a date.
 
JLB said:
How in the world is Wednesday and Thursday one day?

Jesus was tortured and hung on the cross for most of the day. That day is counted as a day.

Jesus crucifixion didn’t began at three it ended at three on the day before the Sabbath, that’s Friday, the day of preparation.

It was an all day event for Him.

The Passover is counted as a day.

Not the Passover and the next day the Sabbath being counted as one day.

The Sabbath is a day.
The Passover is a day.
The first day of the week is a day.


I have never heard of anyone counting two days as one day.

Makes no sense, ma’am.


You have never answered my question from my post.


Please show me what you disagree with in the following scriptures.



Day 1 Friday - And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”...
Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. Luke 23: 43, 53-55


Day 2 - The Sabbath Saturday - Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
Luke 23:56


Day 3 Sunday - Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. Luke 24:1


Do you disagree that the third day was Sunday, the first day of the week.




JLB
Click to expand...
Wed sunset Thur. Sunset = 1 day 1 night
Where did I count 2 days as one day?

I do not disagree that the first day of the week is Sunday.
 
dianegcook said:
1 question
Crucifixion and burial are 2 different things, He was not in the heart of the earth, He was buried right before sunset, buried in haste, Joseph had to claim His body, kinsman redeemer.
Wed, sunset to Thursday Sunset, 1 day 1 night

2 question
John 20:15-17
Jesus Saith to Mary, Why weepest thou?.....
Jesus Saith unto her, Touch Me not, for I am not yet ascended to My Father.
Lev.23:10,11
Ye shall bring a sheaf of the FIRST FRUITS.
And He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, on the MORROW AFTER the SABBATH

1 Cor.15:20 , does not set a date.
Click to expand...
Let's continue with question 2, then, Lord willing we can circle back to 1.

You say 1Cor 15:20 does not set a date.

According to the passage in Leviticus 23 which you posted, the date of the first fruits is the 16th.

What other date would Paul be referring to in 1 Cor 15:20?
 
StoveBolts said:
Let's continue with question 2, then, Lord willing we can circle back to 1.

You say 1Cor 15:20 does not set a date.

According to the passage in Leviticus 23 which you posted, the date of the first fruits is the 16th.

What other date would Paul be referring to in 1 Cor 15:20?
Click to expand...
Lev.23:11, states the MORROW AFTER the Sabbath, does not give a date
 
dianegcook said:
Lev.23:11, states the MORROW AFTER the Sabbath, does not give a date
Click to expand...
Ahh, but it does. Well, no... Actually your right. That passage specifically doesn't, but indirectly it does. You have to go to Exodus and Deuteronomy to understand that it does.

Here is the big picture.
Passover is the 14th
Sabbath is the 15th
Leviticus 23:11 is referring to the Sabbath after Passover. Therefore, Firstfruits is on the 16th.

You can verify this by looking up the passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy regarding passover, or, you can look up the commentaries or charts in your Bible.

Let me know what you find. If you have any problems or questions, just let me know and I'll carve some time out to put it together for you.
 
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StoveBolts said:
Ahh, but it does.
Passover is the 14th
Sabbath is the 15th
Leviticus 23:11 is referring to the Sabbath after Passover. Therefore, Firstfruits is on the 16th.

You can verify this by looking up the passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy regarding passover, or, you can look up the commentaries or charts in your Bible.

Let me know what you find. If you have any problems or questions, just let me know and I'll carve some time out to put it together for you.
Click to expand...
Lev.23:10,11
Speak to the children of Israel and say unto them, when ye come unto the land, which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest of the first fruits, on the MORROW AFTER the (weekly) sabbath.

Exodus 23:15
The feast of unleaven bread, eat 7 days
Exodus 23:16, feast of harvest, no date given.
Ex.34:21,22
Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the first fruits of wheat harvest.
No date given.

Deut.16:16 3 times a year shall all the males appear before the Lord, in the feast of unleaven bread, and the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacle, and they shall not appear empty.
No date given

Lev.2:12, no date given
Num.18:12 no date given

Just give me a date of the first fruits, if you have it, lol.
Been on here long enough.
 
dianegcook said:
Lev.23:10,11
Speak to the children of Israel and say unto them, when ye come unto the land, which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest of the first fruits, on the MORROW AFTER the (weekly) sabbath.

Exodus 23:15
The feast of unleaven bread, eat 7 days
Exodus 23:16, feast of harvest, no date given.
Ex.34:21,22
Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the first fruits of wheat harvest.
No date given.

Deut.16:16 3 times a year shall all the males appear before the Lord, in the feast of unleaven bread, and the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacle, and they shall not appear empty.
No date given

Lev.2:12, no date given
Num.18:12 no date given

Just give me a date of the first fruits, if you have it, lol.
Been on here long enough.
Click to expand...
Not a problem. It's hard to put together from my phone and I have church tonight.

I believe I understand exactly where your coming from and how your coming to your conclusions. Thank you for taking the time to explain your POV and reasoning. Hopefully, what you will learn through this is that the OT isn't always as clear cut as we would like it to be. We live in a culture of information bytes where Moses wrote in a completely different manner that can easily throw us.

I hope youll enjoy what I put together for you. I'll try to have it by morning.
 
8527

This is the Lunar Solar Calendar the Jews use for the month of Nissan (March/April) which is their first month of the year. Passover no matter what the year and date shown is always on the 15th. On this calendar even though it is actually the 20th, it is still Biblical 15th.
 
for_his_glory said:
View attachment 8527

This is the Lunar Solar Calendar the Jews use for the month of Nissan (March/April) which is their first month of the year. Passover no matter what the year and date shown is always on the 15th. On this calendar even though it is actually the 20th, it is still Biblical 15th.
Click to expand...
I posted this link earlier, but I don't think anyone cared to read it.
www.chabad.org

Why Is Passover on Nissan 15, Not Nissan 14?

The Bible states that Passover is on the 14th of Nissan, yet the Jewish calendar shows Passover starting the following night!
www.chabad.org www.chabad.org

If your going to cute Jewish sources, be careful who you cite as some of them are crazier than Benny Hinn, especially if it's from some lone Christian thinking he's got the whole Jewish thing figured out... Paul writes about those, or was it Peter?

Anyhow, Chabad has been doing this since Moses and they are trustworthy to get an authentic Jewish perspective.
 
StoveBolts said:
I posted this link earlier, but I don't think anyone cared to read it.
www.chabad.org

Why Is Passover on Nissan 15, Not Nissan 14?

The Bible states that Passover is on the 14th of Nissan, yet the Jewish calendar shows Passover starting the following night!
www.chabad.org www.chabad.org

If your going to cute Jewish sources, be careful who you cite as some of them are crazier than Benny Hinn, especially if it's from some lone Christian thinking he's got the whole Jewish thing figured out... Paul writes about those, or was it Peter?

Anyhow, Chabad has been doing this since Moses and they are trustworthy to get an authentic Jewish perspective.
Click to expand...
I read your links last night, stayed up to 1:30 in the morning, lol, interesting.
Thanks for your links!
Yes, there were different sacrifices during the Passover period.
I have read so much on this for the past few days, I need to meditate on it awhile.
This post has been interesting.

In John 20:17 states that Jesus hadn't ascended to the Father, which I was taught that the prohibition was due to the waving of the sheaf of the firstfruits before the Lord, the MORROW AFTER the Sabbath, which was He representing the firstfruits from the dead.

Thanks for your patience!
 
dianegcook said:
I read your links last night, stayed up to 1:30 in the morning, lol, interesting.
Thanks for your links!
Yes, there were different sacrifices during the Passover period.
I have read so much on this for the past few days, I need to meditate on it awhile.
This post has been interesting.

In John 20:17 states that Jesus hadn't ascended to the Father, which I was taught that the prohibition was due to the waving of the sheaf of the firstfruits before the Lord, the MORROW AFTER the Sabbath, which was He representing the firstfruits from the dead.

Thanks for your patience!
Click to expand...
I'll have to look into that a bit more.

Here is what I had time to put together. Please let me know what you make of it.

Diane,

Lets look closer at Leviticus 23.
Starting in verse 4, we see the discussion starts with the Passover Ordinances.
We see that Passover starts at twilight on the 14th (verse 5.
On the 15th, the festival of unleavened bread begins (verse 6).
We see from the language in verse 7 that the 15th is a High Sabbath. This festival continues for seven day and the seventh day is also a High Sabbath.

Verses 9 - 14 describe how the First Fruits are offered on the day after the Sabbath, which is the festival of unleavened bread. (verse 11). This is not to be confused with the festival of harvest aka Pentecost (the reaping of the First fruits).

Leviticus 23:11 Jewish Bible - And he shall wave the omer before the Lord so that it will be acceptable for you; the kohen shall wave it on the day after the rest day.
Rashi Commentary:
on the day after the rest day: מִמָּחֳרַת הַשַּׁבָּת. On the day after the first holy day of Passover, [since a holy festival day is also שַׁבָָּת, rest day , in Scripture]. For if you say [that it means] the “Sabbath of Creation” [i.e., the actual Sabbath, the seventh day of the week], you would not know which one. - [Men. 66a]
( https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9924#showrashi=true )

Verse 15 now begins the count for when Pentecost will occur which will be 50 days from the day after the first High Sabbath. Jews call this duration counting the Omer.

Pentecost is the festival when the first fruits from the harvest are brought in and is also called Shavout denoting the festival and the day commemorating the day the 10 Commandments were given.

Passover and Pentecost are tied together and the day of the week they land on floats depending on the year. What can also confuse folks is how verse 11 and 16 are related even though they are 50 days apart.

Just like the Bible views the night of the 15th as the night of the 14th when the Lamb is eaten (before the end of the day), The First Fruits start on the 16th, yet are celebrated 50 days later on Pentecost.
 
StoveBolts said:
I posted this link earlier, but I don't think anyone cared to read it.
www.chabad.org

Why Is Passover on Nissan 15, Not Nissan 14?

The Bible states that Passover is on the 14th of Nissan, yet the Jewish calendar shows Passover starting the following night!
www.chabad.org www.chabad.org

If your going to cute Jewish sources, be careful who you cite as some of them are crazier than Benny Hinn, especially if it's from some lone Christian thinking he's got the whole Jewish thing figured out... Paul writes about those, or was it Peter?

Anyhow, Chabad has been doing this since Moses and they are trustworthy to get an authentic Jewish perspective.
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention this calendar comes from jewfag.org. I missed your post about the website you posted so going to go read it now
 
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