Grace - Old & New Testament

[wavy]

Once again, you reject the Holy Spirit because you think in terms of the flesh, cardinally! Not to mention the fact that you don't understand Jeremiah's ministry. But the real issue here is that you cannot accept the fact that the Old Testament is a physical example of spiritual truths.

Yeah, just saying this doesn't make it true. The real issue is you have not given me any scriptural reason to believe what you are saying.

As for taking things out of context, Hebrews 8:5-13 is very clear on the subject of a "NEW" covenant, and that the old one has been done away with

Nothing to do with the contents of it though, as I explained.

Then why was the veil rent in two (Matthew 27:51)?

The veil to the set apart place, not the most set apart place.

To give us access to the Holy of Holies.

How do we have access?

How is it that we have access to the throne of grace (Hebrews 4:16) but not the mercy seat (Exodus 25:17)? That makes no sense.

This question makes no sense. How in the world are we "in" the holy of holies and why in the world does Yahshua need to be in there as High Priest if we are in there (which ultimately doesn't make sense because he's in heaven where the true Tabernacle is and we are not). The throne of grace is just an expression.

You teach a false religion, rejecting the saving grace of Jesus Christ, the spirit of adoption (Romans 8:15), and the Holy Spirit.

Well, if you want to say this, this is you. I can't stop you...

So, unless you see the word "commandment" it doesn't count? If someone tells you not to do something, by definition, that is a commandment.

This has nothing to do with whether or not it some type of "new law" that replaces Torah.

Strong's kainos:
1) new

a) as respects form

1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn

b) as respects substance

1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of
For Synonyms see entry 5852

Appears 44 times and is always translated as "NEW" (even by Young's).

That doesn't look like a Strong's. I don't know which one you are using, but it depends on the context. If we use our head, we'll figure out that "love one another" isn't "new". And if we use more of our head we'll figure out that none of these say "this is the 'new law' so don't keep what's written in Torah". This is how kainos appears in my Strong's:

G2537

καινός

kainos

kahee-nos'

Of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age): - new.

The word for "new" as in respect to "age" as it says here in this definition is:

G3501

νέος, νεώτερος

neos neōteros

neh'-os, neh-o'-ter-os

A primary word, including the comparative (second form); “newâ€Â, that is, (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively regenerate: - new, young.

It is obvious that you teach a contrary doctrine, a false Jesus, and therefore, I choose to have nothing more to do with you.

Well, nice job of explaining my error. Keep up the "love".

 

[kwag_myers]

Once again, you reject the Holy Spirit because you think in terms of the flesh, cardinally! Not to mention the fact that you don't understand Jeremiah's ministry. But the real issue here is that you cannot accept the fact that the Old Testament is a physical example of spiritual truths.

Yeah, just saying this doesn't make it true. The real issue is you have not given me any scriptural reason to believe what you are saying.

You may have missed it the first time so let me show you again:
Hebrews chapters 8-10.

As for taking things out of context, Hebrews 8:5-13 is very clear on the subject of a "NEW" covenant, and that the old one has been done away with

Nothing to do with the contents of it though, as I explained.

Or you do not have eyes to see it and ears to hear it.
Revelation 2:29

Reminds me of when God spoke in John 12:28-29 and some only heard thunder, i.e., they couldn't hear the voice of God clearly.

Then why was the veil rent in two (Matthew 27:51)?

The veil to the set apart place, not the most set apart place.

Wow, that makes sense (NOT)! Here we have an excellent example of a false teaching. Notice how Wavy tries to separate us from God when the Bible is very clear that God's desire is for us to draw near.
James 4:8

Why is it, Wavy, that you seek to keep us out of the Holy of Holies? Isn't that what Satan wants?

And why do you always argue against God's Word with your feeble speculation?

 

[Klee shay]

We seem to be at loggerheads over the issue of grace. WHOEVER the Ten Commandments were given to, it's a fact that ALL who were saved in the Old Testament were saved by grace alone, NOT by keeping the Law. And yet, the Law was important and binding for them and an essential part of their faith.

True, but it was by the grace of God that saved men. The Old Covernant was for the Old Testiment - law between God and man. This all changed after the sacrifice of Jesus. It then became about the grace Christ achieved so that God could eventually adopt the Gentiles as his own children.

You kill off Jesus and there are going to be repercussions. Just as there were repercussions for unlawful killing in the ten commandments. With the unlawful sacrifice of the Son of God came the blood which would then annoint the Gentiles into the Kingdom of God.

Christ warned Peter (his disciple) that he would deny him; so it's of no surprise that he is continually denied for what he did achieve on the cross. Christ forgave Peter however, after he repented and proclaimed to love the Lord thrice again.

So, why is it that New Testament Christians figure that they are saved by grace and yet are NOT obliged to keep the Law?

The Law of the New Covernant is between God and Jesus. There is no covernant between God and man any more. Our desire is to love Jesus so he can write his laws onto our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Keeping the law is by loving Jesus and loving others as he showed by his example

What is the difference in regard to 'the criteria' for the saved person, whether they be OT believers or NT believers? As long as the Law is no longer binding on present-day Christians, what then is the essential part of our faith? And please don't simply say "a belief in Jesus Christ" without some description as to what is required of us.

What is required is to love Jesus. It's that simple. When you love someone like Jesus it's hard not to be effected by his love in a positive way. The difference in criteria is that you love Jesus before you try obeying any kind of law. What is obedience if you don't love the Lord? It's called slavery and bondage. One can respect and fear their master in obedience, or one can respect and love their master in obedience. Without loving Jesus we can't do the latter - only the former. For we already live in bondage to our flesh but it is the spirit (Holy) that will set us free for all eternity.

The Spirit loves Jesus but the flesh despises him. The Gentile only became inherited through the Holy Spirit, so the laws are written only via that vessel. When we try to obey in the flesh we serve the flesh and not the spirit. What you fail to recognise in your question, is that a Gentile cannot be saved without loving Jesus in spirit first. We are not saved without that vital love. We will only continue serving our flesh.

 

[wavy]

You may have missed it the first time so let me show you again:
Hebrews chapters 8-10.

I have read Hebrews, sir/ma'am...

Or you do not have eyes to see it and ears to hear it.
Revelation 2:29

This doesn't prove what you said or disprove what I said. Indeed, we could quote this scripture back and forth to eachother along with all and any of the other thousands of views of scripture all day...

Reminds me of when God spoke in John 12:28-29 and some only heard thunder, i.e., they couldn't hear the voice of God clearly.

And I assume you believe you have?

Wow, that makes sense (NOT)! Here we have an excellent example of a false teaching. Notice how Wavy tries to separate us from God when the Bible is very clear that God's desire is for us to draw near.
James 4:8

And yet, this still does not prove believers enter the holy of holies, which makes absolutely zero sense. But, again, you are just spreading propoganda. You have not proven that we enter the holy of holies. It makes no logical sense. Why need Yahshua? There is only one that can enter within the veil and that's the High Priest, a.k.a. not us.

Why is it, Wavy, that you seek to keep us out of the Holy of Holies? Isn't that what Satan wants?

More propoganda.

And why do you always argue against God's Word with your feeble speculation?

Once again, nice job of superimposing man's dogma into the scripture without explaining why the scripture says what you say it says.

You have not disproven anything I said above. Just directing me towards scriptures I have read before does not prove your point. Neither does spreading propoganda.

 

[wavy]

It then became about the grace Christ achieved so that God could eventually adopt the Gentiles as his own children.

Please see: No Israelite Adoptions

With the unlawful sacrifice of the Son of God came the blood which would then annoint the Gentiles into the Kingdom of God.

Again see, above. And I interested in this statement: "the unlawful sacrifice of the Son of God"

???

The Law of the New Covernant is between God and Jesus. There is no covernant between God and man any more.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

And by your own declaration, this is denied to you:

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that YHWH would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Galatians 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Klee shay]

Please see: No Israelite Adoptions

Please read: ROMANS in the bible. It does not talk about Israelite adoptions but the Gentile adoption instead. You're right there can be no Israelite adoptions for they were the chosen people - already part of God's inheritance according to the old covernant.

The new covernant is for the Gentile or anyone else who doesn't want to live by ALL the laws of the old covernant between Abraham and God.

Again see, above. And I interested in this statement: "the unlawful sacrifice of the Son of God"

???

Do you believe Jesus died an innocent man? If so, that is what I mean by unlawful. If you don't believe Jesus died an innocent man however, and he did indeed break the laws the Jews accused him of, then I can only quote Luke 22:67-69 "Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe: And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go. Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God."

And by your own declaration, this is denied to you:

A little confused here. What declaration? What is denied to me because of it?

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Interesting reading Jeremiah 31. What do you think these passages in Jeremiah 31 is saying?

35. Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; the LORD of hosts is his name:

36. If those ordinances depart from before me, said the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations fo the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD."

What do you think God is saying to Jerimiah?

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that YHWH would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Let us skip down a few passages to Galations 3:14 "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Which explains the other quotes in Galations 3 (9 and 29) in it's proper context.

*the blessing of Abraham
*come on the GENTILES
*through JESUS Christ

You see there is no need for Israelite adoption. Jesus came to expand the nursery of God's children, in the form of anyone who is not an Israelite and wants to open their ears to hear and open their eyes to see the promise of faith. It started with Abraham but it finished with Christ. That is what the scriptures were written for. :D

 

[wavy]

Please read: ROMANS in the bible. It does not talk about Israelite adoptions but the Gentile adoption instead. You're right there can be no Israelite adoptions for they were the chosen people - already part of God's inheritance according to the old covernant.

I do not think you read. If you had, you would not have made this statement.

The new covernant is for the Gentile or anyone else who doesn't want to live by ALL the laws of the old covernant between Abraham and God

.

Nowhere in scripture does it say the new covenant has been made with gentiles. And again, you've contradicted yourself. You said earlier that the new covenant was not made with man.

A little confused here. What declaration? What is denied to me because of it?

See above.

Interesting reading Jeremiah 31. What do you think these passages in Jeremiah 31 is saying?

Please see my thread: The new priesthood: does it change all Torah? Read near the bottom.

Or you can read my comments on the previous page.

35. Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; the LORD of hosts is his name:

36. If those ordinances depart from before me, said the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations fo the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD."

What do you think God is saying to Jerimiah?

Very simple: if you can stop the ordinances (laws) of the universe stp working or measure the universe, then and only then will Yahweh forsake Israel as his people.

Let us skip down a few passages to Galations 3:14 "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Which explains the other quotes in Galations 3 (9 and 29) in it's proper context.

*the blessing of Abraham
*come on the GENTILES
*through JESUS Christ

And this is my exact point. You are then considered Abraham's children and thus, the promise renewed through Isaac and Jacob applies to you. You then become that great nation (Israel) that Yahweh desired from the moment he told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply.

You said no covenant was made with man. These do not apply to you then.

You see there is no need for Israelite adoption. Jesus came to expand the nursery of God's children, in the form of anyone who is not an Israelite and wants to open their ears to hear and open their eyes to see the promise of faith. It started with Abraham but it finished with Christ. That is what the scriptures were written for. :D

No, Yahshua came to redeem and restore Israel. Please read the prophets. Passages such as Ezekiel 37:16-28, Hosea 1:11, and Isaiah 11:11-13. Please read Matthew 15:24. Please read Luke 1:69, Luke 2:25, Luke 24:21, John 1:31, John 1:49, John 12:13, Acts 1:6-8, Acts 13:23, just for a few.

He was given for a light/luminary/beacon to the nations/gentiles. For what? To join the commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2:11-22).

The focus is all on Israel for Israel's sake.

 

[Klee shay]

I John 4: 1-4

BELOVED, believe not every spirit. but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti-christ, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I am joyful to proclaim I have faith in the one that is greater inside me than anyone else who exists in the world to tell me, "here, is the Lord."

I will stress again because it appears to have gone unnoticed. The new covernant is NOT with the Gentiles, but with Jesus Christ whom the Gentile confessess is the Son of God and did indeed come in the flesh to die for the world's sins.

Galations 3:14 "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

It is the BLESSING of Abraham one receives. So there is no need to magically transform the Gentile into his Israelite seed. The adoption is of God to give to whomever he chooses. Since the sacrifice of his Son - God choose those who believed Jesus came in the flesh and died for our sins. Jew OR Gentile. One no longer has to become Jewish in order to believe in the love and grace of God. One no longer has to be circumsized either. This is what Paul teaches in ROMANS.

Since this blessing came on the Gentiles THROUGH JESUS CHRIST it is now an adoption of love - not birthright. I part-take in the blessing God promised Abraham through Jesus Christ, but I need not part-take in the Israelite understanding of faith and God. That is after all, why his blood was spilled.

II John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

The love of God is for all to part-take in who proclaim Jesus to be the Son of God, come in the flesh.

 

[JM]

As revealed by a poster (can't remember who it was), this was a direct refernce to Yahshua as YHWH:

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thus Yahshua's commandments are the same. To say otherwise would mean to say he is contrasting himself with his Father.

I found direct commandment, John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

 

[wavy]

And so what is your point?

 

[wavy]

I hadn't noticed these statements you made, klee shay.

I will stress again because it appears to have gone unnoticed. The new covernant is NOT with the Gentiles, but with Jesus Christ whom the Gentile confessess is the Son of God and did indeed come in the flesh to die for the world's sins.

A direct contradiction of what you said earlier:

The new covernant is for the Gentile or anyone else who doesn't want to live by ALL the laws of the old covernant between Abraham and God.

It is the BLESSING of Abraham one receives.

And what is the "blessing" of Abraham, may I ask?

So there is no need to magically transform the Gentile into his Israelite seed.

Well, I don't know about "magically", but it is not outside of Yahweh's power.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

One no longer has to become Jewish in order to believe in the love and grace of God.

Never stated this.

One no longer has to be circumsized either. This is what Paul teaches in ROMANS.

No, Paul teaches against legalism for those who believe being circumcised and being considered a Jewish prosylete on the outside gains you automatic entry into the kingdom.

Since this blessing came on the Gentiles THROUGH JESUS CHRIST it is now an adoption of love - not birthright.

I don't think you get what I'm saying...

I part-take in the blessing God promised Abraham through Jesus Christ, but I need not part-take in the Israelite understanding of faith and God. That is after all, why his blood was spilled.

"Israelite understanding of faith"???

 

[Klee shay]

I hadn't noticed these statements you made, klee shay.

[quote:73a00]Kleeshay wrote:
I will stress again because it appears to have gone unnoticed. The new covernant is NOT with the Gentiles, but with Jesus Christ whom the Gentile confessess is the Son of God and did indeed come in the flesh to die for the world's sins.

A direct contradiction of what you said earlier.:

Kleeshay wrote:
The new covernant is for the Gentile or anyone else who doesn't want to live by ALL the laws of the old covernant between Abraham and God.

[/quote:73a00]

I don't know if you can't see it or don't want to see it, but I've quoted this same scripture which says what I have conveyed many times already.

Galations 3:14 "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles *~*through Jesus Christ*~*; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

The New Covernant (between God and Jesus) is for the Gentile who proclaims Jesus the Son of God having come in the flesh to die for our sins. That is what you seem unable to reconcile with my position - through Jesus Christ. When I said "the new covernant is for the Gentile," I used the word FOR not WITH. If I had said, "the new covernant is WITH the Gentile"; then you would have a point about contradicting previous statements.

And what is the "blessing" of Abraham, may I ask?

Eternal life...in the presence of God.

Well, I don't know about "magically", but it is not outside of Yahweh's power.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

My point wasn't about God's potential to do that which is written and that which is promised. My point is that we do not have to become physically (in this world) an Israelite the second we take up our faith in Jesus. I was born in Australia to a Christian family. I am Christian. I don't have to magically be transformed into a Jew to partake in the promise.

We are who we are for a purpose. It is for the Lord to call his heirs one by one; and open their eyes to his truth. As much as you and I think we know, it is for the Lord to continue shedding light upon our walk so that we know the true Lord and his purpose in our lives.

[quote:73a00]Kleeshay wrote:
One no longer has to become Jewish in order to believe in the love and grace of God.

Never stated this. [/quote:73a00]

Then you haven't made your perspective very clear. You've spoken a lot about the blessing of Abraham and that there is no Israelite adoption. What is your perspective then?

[quote:73a00]Kleeshay wrote:
One no longer has to be circumsized either. This is what Paul teaches in ROMANS.

No, Paul teaches against legalism for those who believe being circumcised and being considered a Jewish prosylete on the outside gains you automatic entry into the kingdom.[/quote:73a00]

Well I could quote scripture but it doesn't seem to make a difference. You want to believe what you want to believe and apparently my witness is completely false. If you read in Romans about how it is God that justifies the circumcision by faith and the uncircumcision through faith; you will understand where I've gleaned my perspective.

I don't think you get what I'm saying...

Obviously I don't. :wink:

"Israelite understanding of faith"???

Old covernant, old covernant...works, works, works. I see no mention of the liberation of man through Christ. If you care to expand on your perspective of course, as I'm sure I'm only getting one side of it, I am always happy to listen.

 

[wavy]

I don't know if you can't see it or don't want to see it, but I've quoted this same scripture which says what I have conveyed many times already.

Galations 3:14 "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles *~*through Jesus Christ*~*; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

What exactly are you arguing against?

The New Covernant (between God and Jesus) is for the Gentile who proclaims Jesus the Son of God having come in the flesh to die for our sins. That is what you seem unable to reconcile with my position - through Jesus Christ.

What is your point in telling me this? The the new covenant is not for the gentiles. Please read Jeremiah 31:31-34. I think you are putting the Abrahamic covenant in the same context as the new covenant. They are not the same.

When I said "the new covernant is for the Gentile," I used the word FOR not WITH. If I had said, "the new covernant is WITH the Gentile"; then you would have a point about contradicting previous statements.

Point conceded. It's unlikely one would have made the distinction without you telling them though, however. However, you, imo, are still wrong. I think you are confusing the Abrahamic covenant with the new covenant. Once again, not the same thing.

Eternal life...in the presence of God.

This is not in scripture.

I don't have to magically be transformed into a Jew to partake in the promise.

I didn't say you did. :wink:

Then you haven't made your perspective very clear. You've spoken a lot about the blessing of Abraham and that there is no Israelite adoption. What is your perspective then?

Please read the link I gave you and you will know. I could tell you myself, but I'm tired and it would take forever. You can also read other threads I have made concerning this type of stuff.

Well I could quote scripture but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

It sure wouldn't. I know exactly where you'd take me.

You want to believe what you want to believe and apparently my witness is completely false.

Not entirely false, imo.

If you read in Romans about how it is God that justifies the circumcision by faith and the uncircumcision through faith; you will understand where I've gleaned my perspective.

I know this and understand this.

Old covernant, old covernant...works, works, works.

This is not an "Israelite" view of faith. This is manmade dogma of much of the present Christian world imposed upon scripture. Not that you came up with it, of course, but it is obvious you have been influenced by it.

I see no mention of the liberation of man through Christ.

Liberation from what, may I ask?

If you care to expand on your perspective of course, as I'm sure I'm only getting one side of it, I am always happy to listen.

Well, you're one of the first. Most people automatically dismiss me as a legalist, and thus, their "listening" reflects such (and so they don't really listen, they just want to expose me as wrong).

Really, I would tonight, but I gotta get some sleep. As far as the blessing of Abraham, you can read THE TRUTH ABOUT ALL ISRAEL, if you want to.

 

[Klee shay]

Let's just say that we are probably world's apart in understanding. I'm generally a good communicator and I'm astounded that you haven't understood the points I was making. Worlds apart, see. That doesn't make me any closer to Jesus, mind you. For Jesus and I are world's apart also. :wink:

Legalist - perhaps - I don't know you that well?

I think the best way to get to know Jesus however, is with the heart and not the head. I use to be pretty set in my ways about Jesus in the past, until he completely obliterated my understanding, LOL. From my lofty pedistall, I fell on the cornerstone and it broke me; but that was so it wouldn't fall on me later and grind me to powder. :wink:

You see - God has everything figured out. We just have to let him show us. :D

 

[wavy]

Well, I guess I could thank you for at least telling me I had a low level of understanding in a nice way. :fadein:

Anyway, the thing is the points you are presenting are irrelevant to anything I said (no offense). Also, I do not think they are scripturally based. Presented with scripture, of course, but scripture taken out of context.

I do see, after thinking about it a second ago before I started this sentence, what you are trying to prove.

Your whole theory is that the new covenant was WITH Christ (not with man) FOR the gentiles (through the new covenant WITH Christ) so that they did not have to be burdened with "the law" or have anything to do with Israel to be saved.

That's why you used...

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

...and underlined "Jesus Christ" to help substantiate that the new covenant is with him for the "gentiles". I see this now.


However, my point is, you are totally confusing this...

Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


with this...


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Or at least you are applying the term "new covenant" where it does not belong. Two different things.

 

[JM]

And so what is your point?

:smt106 My point? If your attitude has anything to say about your beliefs, I want none of it! That’s my point.

 

[wavy]

Seriously, a lot of you would make good politicians. Propoganda is always on its highest level whenever an opposing view is involved...

But anyway, disregarding that, all I did was ask a question. I didn't understand your point in saying what you had said.

 

[Klee shay]

Well, I guess I could thank you for at least telling me I had a low level of understanding in a nice way.

I hope you meant this humourously, because I never meant to imply you had a lower level of understanding. We're just world's apart. No-one is higher or lower we just seem to be in different orbits to different plains of understanding.

Since no-one has infinite knowledge except God, no-one knows what is infinitely correct or incorrect. We're all still learning according to his will.

 

[wavy]

Well, it was supposed to a "truth-joke".

But after reading what you said, I can see I was wrong.

I thought that when you said "Jesus and I are world's apart", that you meant that you and Jesus were not of this world (and therefore leaving me as "wordly" and without Messiah to know the truth).

Now I see what you meant. I'm sorry.

 

[Klee shay]

However, my point is, you are totally confusing this...

Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


with this...


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Or at least you are applying the term "new covenant" where it does not belong. Two different things.

Thank you for explaining further, it has simplified somewhat more so I can understand. You are saying the new covernant can only be with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

My point being; where else has God made promises in the bible with the lips of his son, sealed in his blood; to those whom believe upon Him? You are not incorrect, but didn't the life of Jesus and the sacrifice plus resurrection broaden the field to so much more?