hal lindsey

[Gazelle]

ok pre-tribbers i dont expect you to change but at least consider this fraud.

yes people arent perfect and make mistakes but would you let your pastor do this now would you. that is divorce 4 times. im sorry but leadership has a price you are held to a higher standard.


he also says this.


http://americanvision.org/1753/hal-lindsey-making-predictionsagain

This was your first post in the thread. IF you would but study with a guide even the 9th chapter of Daniel, you will see (and can count directly and accurately) that it speaks not only of the exact day of when Christ would enter Jerusalem but the destruction for the second time of the temple there, the rebuilding, the false prophet to come and the cessation of the sacrifices being made... which is at the time of tribulation (one half week into the 70th week actually.)

I can see how someone would be confused without the added prophetical messages from the Old Testament.

http://www.lesfeldick.org/lesbk82.html

 

[freeway]

This was your first post in the thread. IF you would but study with a guide even the 9th chapter of Daniel, you will see (and can count directly and accurately) that it speaks not only of the exact day of when Christ would enter Jerusalem but the destruction for the second time of the temple there, the rebuilding, the false prophet to come and the cessation of the sacrifices being made... which is at the time of tribulation (one half week into the 70th week actually.)

I can see how someone would be confused without the added prophetical messages from the Old Testament.

http://www.lesfeldick.org/lesbk82.htmlhttp://www.lesfeldick.org/lesbk82.htmlhttp://www.lesfeldick.org/lesbk82.htmlhttp://www.lesfeldick.org/lesbk82.html

Yes very true and also the rebirth of Israel to the exact day. the retaking of Jerusalem again to the exact day.. our bible is amazing:biglol
http://harvestreno.org/messages.asp under our amazing bible..

 

[jasoncran]

This was your first post in the thread. IF you would but study with a guide even the 9th chapter of Daniel, you will see (and can count directly and accurately) that it speaks not only of the exact day of when Christ would enter Jerusalem but the destruction for the second time of the temple there, the rebuilding, the false prophet to come and the cessation of the sacrifices being made... which is at the time of tribulation (one half week into the 70th week actually.)

I can see how someone would be confused without the added prophetical messages from the Old Testament.

http://www.lesfeldick.org/lesbk82.html

i know all your arguments. nothing new to me. i have heard them alot. again if one is two take the rapture that way then answer me what would you teach my jewish family who dont believe on this verse?

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1 Corinthians 15

King James Version (KJV)


1 Corinthians 15


1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is

now then the rapture has happened and if my family dies where is there hope? they will read that a weep as they have missed the ressurection then. context context context,learn it folks. he isnt talking a secret rapture imho but a resurrection of the dead saints when he comes to take his place on earth or to judge the wicked.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason just because you choose not to believe in something does not mean its not true.


jason can you re-ask this question in different wording, I think I know what you are saying but want to make sure.. sorry



If one is saved "truly saved" they he/she does not have to be praying to be raptured, because Jesus takes His Bride to heaven to the "Father's House" you know "I go to prepare a place for you and come to recieve you to myself. Heaven.
study the wedding of Jewish mand and woman in history.. The groom does not know when his father will blow the Trump and tell his son to go get his bride, which the groom has been working on since the engagment.

really?

the words of JESUS who is one the coming to get us right?
luke 21:36

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[Gazelle]

As my Messianic friends say, any Jew who will study the book of Daniel will be convinced that Yeshua is truly Jesus Christ, the Messiah. What more can I say? It was "their" book first

There are verses, and a serious study could ensue... about how during the tribulation the 144,000 virgin male Jews will be sealed so as not to be afflicted by the anti christ etc., and will be witnesses for Yeshua, proclaiming the gospel so that those who have not died prior to this time can have a chance to accept Christ.

 

[jasoncran]

As my Messianic friends say, any Jew who will study the book of Daniel will be convinced that Yeshua is truly Jesus Christ, the Messiah. What more can I say? It was "their" book first

i am a jew. he didnt work that way for me. and uh that doesnt suffice. these jews cant know what ressurection they will see if the rapture is the only ressurrection. remember your doctrine says that theres only ressurection. not two or three or five.

they missed that boat. do you see the problem so they either die or go into hiding till the lords return seven or less then return which means they can hide not preach and be ok.

i dont see the lord telling us now on x day you will die and be with me . he wants us to be ready as he comes as a thief in the night. which btw your doctrine once again meets a problem as any bible believing jew or gentile will see the book of daniel and read what you say if they are taught and then know when he comes.

not likely the case imho. epic fail

guys i didnt come to these conclusion overnight. it was here and this forum that lead to really look hard. i cant at present go back. i do double check myself. i have a book called after the rapture given by a friend that goes into some stuff that i didnt know and read up on what he says.

now then he postulates that one ought to gives on house to the jews and money so that they can recieve the gospel if one believes the pre trib rapture is to be the case. at least he puts the money where his mouth is.

 

[Hitch]

Wow hitch thanks for keeping it civil...
you can do like strowcrow and put us on your ignore list.. then we woun't have to drudge through your dribble.. :waving :waving

Had you any sense you would know you dont have to read anything I post regardless of any action on my part.

 

[reba]

Jesus does know, question is do have it right?

This is honest thanks! Jesus says resurrection on the last day. I will just take Him at His Word.

He is to be the Light.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

 

[jasoncran]

can you of 1948rs tell me why paul didnt know that as surely he would know as it does have countdown from the command of cyrus to return, doesnt it?yes it does. so why not show me some ecf comments on this and see what we find?

as far i know the man scofield and darby are foundes of this stuff and no earlier churches or men came up with this.

explain.

and now jerusalems isnt in control of isreal as well wait to they try to build a temple. right so the un and the world hinders them from doing what they want. funny.

 

[Hitch]

And what is to be the value of renewed 'temple worship'?

Except to codify that Jesus is not Messiah?

 

[jasoncran]

some say that its the jews attempt to get right with god but then again what modern judaism is that wont be much.

 

[Sinthesis]

some say that its the jews attempt to get right with god but then again what modern judaism is that wont be much.

What do you mean by this? What is your take on modern Judaism?

 

[Gazelle]

i am a jew. he didnt work that way for me. and uh that doesnt suffice. these jews cant know what ressurection they will see if the rapture is the only ressurrection. remember your doctrine says that theres only ressurection. not two or three or five.

they missed that boat. do you see the problem so they either die or go into hiding till the lords return seven or less then return which means they can hide not preach and be ok.

i dont see the lord telling us now on x day you will die and be with me . he wants us to be ready as he comes as a thief in the night. which btw your doctrine once again meets a problem as any bible believing jew or gentile will see the book of daniel and read what you say if they are taught and then know when he comes.

not likely the case imho. epic fail

guys i didnt come to these conclusion overnight. it was here and this forum that lead to really look hard. i cant at present go back. i do double check myself. i have a book called after the rapture given by a friend that goes into some stuff that i didnt know and read up on what he says.

now then he postulates that one ought to gives on house to the jews and money so that they can recieve the gospel if one believes the pre trib rapture is to be the case. at least he puts the money where his mouth is.

I don't find this "one" resurrection you speak of, sorry. It's interesting to me, how you as a Jew? (by birth or?) came to Christ without the book of Daniel. Of course, it's possible, obviously.

 

[jasoncran]

I don't find this "one" resurrection you speak of, sorry. It's interesting to me, how you as a Jew? (by birth or?) came to Christ without the book of Daniel. Of course, it's possible, obviously.

i am jew by birth as my dad is a jew. but by orthodoxy i am not a jew as my mom is a gentile.i wasnt raised in the temple but my story was a common conversion as the gentile have. nothing big and oustanding. i have stated how it came to be in another thread

i will acquire pics of the graves of my deceased family in miami and post them and what the words on them in hebrew says.

i know above my grandparents it says.

harry son of jacob. and adelle daughter of jacob. both of them had dads that were named jacob. and also its really son of isreal.

when the jews die they call it a mitzhvah . this means like the bar and bat its a passage but its much more. in death all jews are united and await the ressurection and look to the hamaschiah to raise them in isreal and the very soil from the mt olivet is placed on the casket and also the family as part of the ritual do toss dirt that has been blessed by the rabbi.

there much of a messianic promise in their ritural of death.

 

[jasoncran]

What do you mean by this? What is your take on modern Judaism?

judiasm as spoken by paul and isiah has some tinge of truth to them. and also is blind. see the above post. if you are interested i can do a thread on the rituals of burying the dead that jews do(orthodox) and jews of today as i stated(my kin near to me, dad, uncle steve,aunt and grandparents are the exception) are very new agy.

i have in part done channukah as a kid., btw i am not the only jew convert on this forum, lewis the mod is also a jew albiet one of the few african jews.he was raised in the temple as a kid.

 

[Stormcrow]

And what is to be the value of renewed 'temple worship'?

{19} Or do you not know that your body is a temple... 1 Corinthians 6:19 (NASB)

I don't know. I could see value in someone worshiping my temple. Unfortunately, I'm long past those days! :eeeekkk

 

[freeway]

judiasm as spoken by paul and isiah has some tinge of truth to them. and also is blind. see the above post. if you are interested i can do a thread on the rituals of burying the dead that jews do(orthodox) and jews of today as i stated(my kin near to me, dad, uncle steve,aunt and grandparents are the exception) are very new agy.

i have in part done channukah as a kid., btw i am not the only jew convert on this forum, lewis the mod is also a jew albiet one of the few african jews.he was raised in the temple as a kid.

Jason, is there a question here. I'm not sure. about the ressurection? about? just wondering..

 

[jasoncran]

Jason, is there a question here. I'm not sure. about the ressurection? about? just wondering..

no, i know what they believe on the ressurection. that was in response to synthesis.
to wit i will add. modern judaism isnt going to do the animal sacrifices like the old ways. they already teach that the old ways for repentance arent needed. only for grievious sins is the way i was told in short for the use of animal sacrifices.

 

[jasoncran]

I don't find this "one" resurrection you speak of, sorry. It's interesting to me, how you as a Jew? (by birth or?) came to Christ without the book of Daniel. Of course, it's possible, obviously.

what a pretribber not know that the rapture is a ressurection of the dead and not a gathering?

1 Corinthians 15


1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

hmm the dead rise first then those are raised to the new life at his coming and he even says it twice!

thats a ressurection not some escape button.

 

[Gazelle]

' then we which are alive shall be caught up together... and so shall we ever be with the Lord' Just going by what I read in my Bible.

I Thessalonians 4:16-17

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.