Have you heard the Gospel?

[Consecrated Life]

Yes, I remember the instruction of Yahshua, but don't understand what you want to say by that. I understand that you believe that the Savior, from his birth to death, lived in Israel at the time of the New Covenant, not Old Covenant. Is this correct?

He never Baptized anyone & forgiving anybody's sins as a baby , child , teen.
So common sense should tell you those periods were not in play under the NC.
The coming line of demarcation between Old and New was foretold by John the Baptist:

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Note that even though Jesus was a grown man the day that John spoke these words nothing as of yet had changed but there was about to be a great spiritual change when "he that cometh" Makes Himself known.
The baptism of Jesus marked His ordination as Messiah:
Mat 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

With only His temptation by Satan to be completed before the actual beginning of the public New Covenant ministry for the forgiveness of sin began:

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[live2blive]

He never Baptized anyone & forgiving anybody's sins as a baby , child , teen.
So common sense should tell you those periods were not in play under the NC.
The coming line of demarcation between Old and New was foretold by John the Baptist:

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Note that even though Jesus was a grown man the day that John spoke these words nothing as of yet had changed but there was about to be a great spiritual change when "he that cometh" Makes Himself known.
The baptism of Jesus marked His ordination as Messiah:
Mat 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

With only His temptation by Satan to be completed before the actual beginning of the public New Covenant ministry for the forgiveness of sin began:

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So New Covenant/Testament began not at the Savior's birth but after the Savior's baptism?

 

[Consecrated Life]

So New Covenant/Testament began not at the Savior's birth but after the Savior's baptism

Began when He first preached that believers were to abandon the sacrificial Temple system for sins and pray directly to God for the forgiveness of their sins.

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[live2blive]

Began when He first preached that believers were to abandon the sacrificial Temple system for sins and pray directly to God for the forgiveness of their sins.

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

This is not so. It was still under the Old Covenant. New Covenant/Testament came into effect only after the death of the Savior:

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. (Hebrews 9:16-18).

 

[Consecrated Life]

This is not so. It was still under the Old Covenant. New Covenant/Testament came into effect only after the death of the Savior:

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. (Hebrews 9:16-18).

How was Jesus able to forgive sins & grant salvation with the Old Covenant still in effect ?

 

[live2blive]

How was Jesus able to forgive sins & grant salvation with the Old Covenant still in effect ?

Apparently, you don't agree with the author of Hebrews. When did Jesus grant salvation? Did any of His disciples receive the Holy Spirit (salvation) before His crucifiction?

 

[Consecrated Life]

. When did Jesus grant salvation? Did any of His disciples receive the Holy Spirit (salvation) before His crucifiction?

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house,

 

[live2blive]

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house,

However, the Scriptures say that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins (Hebrews 9:22). The father, knowing that in several days he will die, writes a will were he gives all his money to the son and says, "This day you are rich". But the son will become rich only after the father dies.

 

[Consecrated Life]

However, the Scriptures say that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins (Hebrews 9:22).

So you believe Jesus was a liar when He said He had power to forgive sins prior to going to the cross ?

Mar 2:10
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins....

 

[live2blive]

So you believe Jesus was a liar when He said He had power to forgive sins prior to going to the cross ?

Mar 2:10
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins....

Of course not. All that Yahshua was saying was true. Here is the explanation:

How could Jesus say, “Your sins are forgiven,” before He died on the cross? | GotQuestions.org

How could Jesus say, “Your sins are forgiven,” before He died on the cross? If Jesus could forgive sins before His death on the cross, why did He need to die on the cross?

www.gotquestions.org

Going back to the original question abot the New Covenant. Do you agree that the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit within a person?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Of course not. All that Yahshua was saying was true. Here is the explanation:

How could Jesus say, “Your sins are forgiven,” before He died on the cross? | GotQuestions.org

How could Jesus say, “Your sins are forgiven,” before He died on the cross? If Jesus could forgive sins before His death on the cross, why did He need to die on the cross?

www.gotquestions.org

Exactly .
No scriptural mention of the OC Temple "atonement" system when Jesus was here forgiving sins prior to His going to the cross.
Why would there be after all , it was a dead building of no use ?
Who would you go to for the forgiveness of your sins given the choice. a dead and desolate building or to Him who had come from heaven and who has the Words of life .?

The OC Temple "atonement" sacrificial system for sin being defiled, & the Spirit of God long gone from the Holy of Holies .

Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

 

[live2blive]

Exactly .
No scriptural mention of the OC Temple "atonement" system when Jesus was here forgiving sins prior to His going to the cross.
Why would there be after all , it was a dead building of no use ?
Who would you go to for the forgiveness of your sins given the choice. a dead and desolate building or to Him who had come from heaven and who has the Words of life .?

The OC Temple "atonement" sacrificial system for sin being defiled, & the Spirit of God long gone from the Holy of Holies .

Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

You did not answer the question: "Do you agree that the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit within a person?"

 

[Free]

You did not answer the question: "Do you agree that the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit within a person?"

What does that question even mean?

 

[Hopeful 2]

You did not answer the question: "Do you agree that the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit within a person?"

No.
The Holy Ghost within a person is just one of the results of the NC/NT.

 

[live2blive]

What does that question even mean?

We are discussing if the Savior and his disciples lived in the time of Old Covenant or New Covenant. Therefore, it is important to understand what is the New Covenant.

 

[live2blive]

No.
The Holy Ghost within a person is just one of the results of the NC/NT.

What is the New Covenant?

 

[Free]

We are discussing if the Savior and his disciples lived in the time of Old Covenant or New Covenant. Therefore, it is important to understand what is the New Covenant.

Yes, but the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is just one aspect of the NC, not the NC. The NC is that by grace there is forgiveness in Christ apart from the Law and we can be reconciled to God.

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
Luk 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. (ESV)

The Holy Spirit is God's gift to us, for a number of reasons, such as to help us live as we should and seal as "the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it" (Eph. 1:13-14).

 

[Consecrated Life]

You did not answer the question: "Do you agree that the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit within a person?"

One at a time.
There was no Holy Spirit present where The Christ is already present in person and forgiving sins.
It seems you are still confused on the matter of Jesus's forgiveness of sin.
Only Jesus forgives sin .
Forgiving sin is not in the Holy Spirit's job description .


Mar 2:10
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins....

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

He never Baptized anyone & forgiving anybody's sins as a baby , child , teen.
So common sense should tell you those periods were not in play under the NC.
The coming line of demarcation between Old and New was foretold by John the Baptist:

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Note that even though Jesus was a grown man the day that John spoke these words nothing as of yet had changed but there was about to be a great spiritual change when "he that cometh" Makes Himself known.
The baptism of Jesus marked His ordination as Messiah:
Mat 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

With only His temptation by Satan to be completed before the actual beginning of the public New Covenant ministry for the forgiveness of sin began:

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

I question your assumption that the new covenant only started with Jesus' baptism. Where in the Bible do you find that timing? I don't find it anywhere, including in the verses you quote, and please don't argue from silence.

Please understand that the word "new" (kainos) in the New Testament has a little different meaning from "new" (neos), which means brand-new as in a baby or a young child. "Kainos" means roughly "new and improved." Therefore, the new earth, new heaven, new Jerusalem, new covenant, and other uses of the word refer to both a continuity and a discontinuity. That is, the old covenant continues on in the new covenant but in a different form.

For example, the inner principles of the old covenant remain as moral standards for the international church, but the outward forms as national laws for Israel are no more. As a result, the forms of punishment for murder and adultery are abolished, but anger and lust as their bases are forbidden, as Jesus said in Matthew:
Mat 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

And in that same sermon, Jesus said that lust is also a sin like adultery, the new-covenant, inner meaning:
Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

He never Baptized anyone & forgiving anybody's sins as a baby , child , teen.
So common sense should tell you those periods were not in play under the NC.
The coming line of demarcation between Old and New was foretold by John the Baptist:

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Note that even though Jesus was a grown man the day that John spoke these words nothing as of yet had changed but there was about to be a great spiritual change when "he that cometh" Makes Himself known.
The baptism of Jesus marked His ordination as Messiah:
Mat 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

With only His temptation by Satan to be completed before the actual beginning of the public New Covenant ministry for the forgiveness of sin began:

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I question your assumption that the new covenant only started with Jesus' baptism. Where in the Bible do you find that timing? I don't find it anywhere, including in the verses you quote, and please don't argue from silence.

I never said He forgave anyone of sin at the time of His baptism.
Only when he began to tell people that all they now needed to do to be forgiven of their sins was to repent of their sins can we see the start of God's better way .

Mat 6:9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.......
.......... forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.